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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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Old
01-04-2013, 08:17 AM
  #826
Holden Caulfield
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Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
I'm too lazy to look in detail at the various CBA proposals but is there any news regarding whether they are going to close the NCAA UFA loophole that allowed Wheeler and Schultz to become UFAs? This could have implications for the Jets considering Trouba is in the NCAA system.
TROUBA IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE NCAA LOOPHOLE!!!!!!!!!!


I've said this many times...I'm thinking I should sticky that at the top of the forum...

Also, don't forget that ANY player can refuse to sign with their drafting team. For players drafted out of CHL and Europe, they only have to wait 2 years (ala Tim Erixon). Even using the "loophole" junior A (this is what it should be called, since to be eligible for the loophole you must play junior A for a year AFTER being drafted before college) players have to wait 4 years. (1 year junior A, 3 years college).

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01-04-2013, 08:29 AM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
TROUBA IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE NCAA LOOPHOLE!!!!!!!!!!


I've said this many times...I'm thinking I should sticky that at the top of the forum...

Also, don't forget that ANY player can refuse to sign with their drafting team. For players drafted out of CHL and Europe, they only have to wait 2 years (ala Tim Erixon). Even using the "loophole" junior A (this is what it should be called, since to be eligible for the loophole you must play junior A for a year AFTER being drafted before college) players have to wait 4 years. (1 year junior A, 3 years college).
I don't think you've said it enough. Truth be told, I forgot about his ineligibility in regards to the NCAA loophole. It's nice to be reminded at times.

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01-04-2013, 08:30 AM
  #828
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Go on, make it sticky. And put this along with it:


YES - Kulda is still Jets bound if he wants to return to North America.

NO - Nik Antropov is not useless and overpaid.

YES - We are still fine with Scheifele instead of Couturier.

NO - We won't trade Evander Kane for a bag of pucks because he may has character issues and could be traded in a couple of years before his contract expires.

NO - We don't know if Zajac is having wet dreams about being a Jet just because he's from Winnipeg.



It would help us a lot.

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01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
Go on, make it sticky. And put this along with it:


YES - Kulda is still Jets bound if he wants to return to North America.

NO - Nik Antropov is not useless and overpaid.

YES - We are still fine with Scheifele instead of Couturier.

NO - We won't trade Evander Kane for a bag of pucks because he may has character issues and could be traded in a couple of years before his contract expires.

NO - We don't know if Zajac, Eakin, Wilson, & Towes, are having wet dreams about being a Jet just because he's from Winnipeg.



It would help us a lot.
i fixed this

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:39 AM
  #830
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Yes antropoof is useless and over paid
No zajac doesnt want to play here

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01-04-2013, 10:00 AM
  #831
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I know most people that care any more probably think both sides should just saw this off now (horse trade) and get this deal done already but as Jets fans this really good article by James Mirtle provides a cautionary tale of just how much is still at stake.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6928533/

The article highlights how big a difference there is between something that sounds meh like the variance limits and the difference between 10% or 20% in contracts (the backdiving Kovachuck issue):

10-per-cent variance presents some strict limitations, with a 20-per-cent one, it’s easy to drop down to the new minimum salary (roughly $600,000) in short order, even from a near maximum salary (roughly $12-million).

in this fight I think the key as pointed out by Mirtle will be the:

there is likely to be a minimum salary shift level set as part of the agreement. The NHLPA previously proposed a minimum level that was 25 per cent of the highest year in a contract, meaning no single year could go below that figure.

That would mean that, in the charts above, on a deal that started at $10-million, it couldn’t drop below $2.5-million in any year of the contract.



Mirtle goes further to say:

Is that enough of a safeguard against back-diving deals? Probably not. So it’s certainly possible that that minimum comes up significantly.

(*- Elliotte Friedman has reported the league is willing to go to 30 per cent variance if the minimum is as high as 60 per cent, which I've included as an option in the line graph above. Needless to say, that wouldn't allow much circumvention at all.)


lastly (for those of you to lazy to click the link )

One of the tricky things for the PA in negotiating over the variance is that the extreme deals like Kovalchuk’s obviously affect so few players in the league positively and the massive frontloading can negatively impact other players via escrow payments.

There’s a balance there between (a) allowing contracts to be creatively constructed in order for teams to keep their talent and stars to get paid and (b) the lower and middle class of the NHLPA not being squeezed by these deals to a select few.

How the players work that out remains to be seen.

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Old
01-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
I don't think you've said it enough. Truth be told, I forgot about his ineligibility in regards to the NCAA loophole. It's nice to be reminded at times.
Yeah, not everybody reads every thread I guess. But I've stated it many times.

In fact, as I've talked about before, it's hardly even a loophole. I'll explain it here again.

To be eligible for the "NCAA" loophole, you must play a here of junior after being drafted but before going to NCAA. If you do, you have the option to become a UFA after just 3 years of college, rather than the normal, ala Schultz/Wheeler. It only works following your 3rd season in college, you cannot walk at any time. So in reality, the team has held your rights for 4 years either way (using loophole or going straight to college). Anaheim had Schultz's rights for 4 years and failed to sign him.

Now, for normal college players, like a Trouba, you again hold their rights for 4 years. You have them until the August 15th following their senior year, as in 4 years (unless they redshirt). So in reality it makes no difference.

Hell, if Schultz had decided to return to school this year, he would still be ANA's property...until August 15th this year then he simply could have walked at that point. All the "loophole" bought him was one year, and had he started college immediately following being drafted he would have graduated last year and been able to walk this past year ANYWAYS. It made no difference, Schultz quite simply did not want to play for ANA.

Again this also pales in comparison to the 2 years you control the rights for players drafted out of CHL or Europe for (although the new CBA rumblings have the European window extended to 4 years). These players can refuse to sign and either re-enter the draft or become UFA (depending on age when drafted) after a mere two years. Tim Erixon threatened to do this very thing, forcing Calgary to trade him to NYR.

So in reality, this whole "loophole" thing is quite ridiculous, it's not a loophole at all. You still control your NCAA players for a minimum of 4 years, your CHL/Europe players for two, if you cannot sign them in that time, you lose them.

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01-04-2013, 10:21 PM
  #833
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FWIW, I was watching the Celtics game today, and they interviewed a "Bruins insider" (whatever that means) after a commercial break. The employees at TD Garden apparently laid the ice down yesterday, and said that ALL NHL employees were told to prepare for training camp to start on the 12th, with the season starting on the 19th.

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01-05-2013, 02:46 AM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1g View Post
FWIW, I was watching the Celtics game today, and they interviewed a "Bruins insider" (whatever that means) after a commercial break. The employees at TD Garden apparently laid the ice down yesterday, and said that ALL NHL employees were told to prepare for training camp to start on the 12th, with the season starting on the 19th.
Maybe I'm just bitter, but ill believe it when I see it...

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01-05-2013, 04:19 AM
  #835
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It's sometimes really funny where those "Insider informations" come from and where they are spread


But well who knows maybe it's true and you heard it at a NBA game at first.

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01-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #836
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I just watched a replay of the game - turns out the guy reporting it was Joe Haggerty, who covers the Bruins for Comcast Sports in New England. My take on it - it's just the NHL saying "Hey, get ready......just in case". I think talks could still blow up.

Ed Tait from the Free Press also reported this morning that a handful of players were skating this morning too. Again - probably just another "Just in case" scenario.

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01-05-2013, 12:24 PM
  #837
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Quote:
Darren Dreger‏@DarrenDreger

PA hotel is buzzing in anticipation. Down to minimal issues...but, still not done. And definition of "minimal" may differ.
Quote:
Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper

As #NHL #NHLPA r set to meet at this moment source says mediator work last 24hrs has help bridge gap on many issues. Stay tuned..
Quote:
Darren Dreger‏@DarrenDreger

Well, if its a close as we're sensing it could be a very "good day" according to source.
Could be a very interesting day.

EDIT:

Quote:
Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper

Source "tentative deal could be done within 24 hrs or #NHLPA could serve #NHL notice to disclaim early as 2day. Present meeting is huge.
Quote:
gary lawless‏@garylawless

Multiple sources - CBA talks picking up pace - still issues but appear solveable - players pushing for a deal #NHL


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 01-05-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old
01-05-2013, 01:08 PM
  #838
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Sure sounds like a positive turn in these CBA talks. January 19th season start-up, 2 weeks today - please make it happen.

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01-05-2013, 01:18 PM
  #839
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I'm certain this has been said before many times too, but since we're in the spirit of repeatin' ****....if Trouba leaves school this summer and doesn't make the Jets, can he be sent to StJ's or would he have to go to the CHL (Kitchener?)?

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01-05-2013, 02:06 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
I'm certain this has been said before many times too, but since we're in the spirit of repeatin' ****....if Trouba leaves school this summer and doesn't make the Jets, can he be sent to StJ's or would he have to go to the CHL (Kitchener?)?
He'd be AHL. He was drafted out of USNDPT

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01-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  #841
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it sounds like this long, dark night of our hockey souls might be finally coming to an end. Lots of whispers that the deal is done...

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Old
01-05-2013, 03:04 PM
  #842
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no, they cant. i predicted the agreement to come jan 7th. I dont know if im a pessimistic optimist or optimistic pessimist!

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01-06-2013, 03:22 AM
  #843
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Teemu predicted a deal on Monday, and so it shall be.

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Old
01-06-2013, 03:46 AM
  #844
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It's 3:44 and all indications are the two sides are still talking, or I'm too intoxicated to read twitter. Either way this is clearly a good night.

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01-06-2013, 03:47 AM
  #845
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Man, they're STILL at it in NY! Good stuff.

Quote:
Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper

Told no sign of momentum slowing dwn btween #NHLPA #NHL as of 4:30am est. Many pleasantly surprised wee hrs finally time 4 real negotiation
Quote:
Darren Dreger‏@DarrenDreger

Latest intel from Manhattan-Marathon-Madness...the two sides intend on pushing until no more can be accomplished tonight\this morning.
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Via email, update from NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly: "Making progress."
Quote:
Louis Jean‏@LouisJean_TVA

15 hours in and talks continue between #NHL & #NHLPA
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Source says both sides "working hard trying to reach agreement on the outstanding issues."

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Old
01-06-2013, 03:49 AM
  #846
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^ Happy to see I'm not THAT drunk.

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Old
01-06-2013, 03:51 AM
  #847
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Ok I have to go to bed. 5am is as far as I can take it.

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01-06-2013, 04:09 AM
  #848
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Holy ****.

Multiple sources saying deal is done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Mike Adams ‏@NHL NSider

A deal in principal has been reached. #NHL #NHLPA #Lockout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
@adater
Deal is done! per@denverpost.com


aahhhhhhhhhhh
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
Sources confirm @adater report the lockout is over!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabapple View Post
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Deal is done. #TSN

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01-06-2013, 04:11 AM
  #849
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Oh my goodness.

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01-06-2013, 04:15 AM
  #850
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