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Old
11-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #851
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
WHAT?

The union was so strong it bankrupted the whole thing. Are you out of your MIND? Unions forget that companies (or governments, as is the problem in Québec) don't have infinite amounts of money too easily.

I'm happy Hamrlik broke silence - and in something else than Puck Gary caps. He can't be the only one thinking like that. Remember, it's his 4th work stoppage.
Is that why the angelic hostess was using the workers self paid pensions to pay debt?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...stess-Bankery#

Someone should tell them "it will be alright"

edit: Get out of my brain DAChampion! Also, good on Cole. Way to put hamrlik in his place and show him what character and integrity is. I have never been happier to have a player like him leading the youth on this team.

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:51 PM
  #852
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Those poor kids of the future, they'll only have millions of dollars and too many chicks to bang.

Some of you guys are pathetic with your player nut hugging. They can do no wrong in these negotiations right? Their offer today was the same thing it's always been, except worded differently.

What happens if the revenues continue to climb in the next 2 years, with maybe another Canadian team or two added, then the Canadian Dollars collapses again. Under the latest player proposal the league would have no way to protect against that.

And now you guys are suggesting physical retribution against Hamrlik because he wants to play hockey again, classy.

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11-21-2012, 10:01 PM
  #853
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Finally an actual player coming out and voicing his displeasure.

Makes sense, it would be very interesting to know actually how many players would have accepted a previous offer from the union.

Maybe its time for TSN to do an informal poll with the players. Double secret poll.

When this thing is over I may find it hard to cheeer for Eric Cole.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:08 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Those poor kids of the future, they'll only have millions of dollars and too many chicks to bang.
They'll have as little as players did before union organization, back in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. No millions whatsoever, but still a few chicks.

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11-21-2012, 10:08 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Those poor kids of the future, they'll only have millions of dollars and too many chicks to bang.

Some of you guys are pathetic with your player nut hugging. They can do no wrong in these negotiations right? Their offer today was the same thing it's always been, except worded differently.

What happens if the revenues continue to climb in the next 2 years, with maybe another Canadian team or two added, then the Canadian Dollars collapses again. Under the latest player proposal the league would have no way to protect against that.

And now you guys are suggesting physical retribution against Hamrlik because he wants to play hockey again, classy.
Who are "you guys?" Where does "chicks to bang" enter the conversation? How is the CBA meant to protect the BOG against bad management decisions? "Nut hugging?"

And yet, this post is very fun to read in angry drunk voice. Keep that venom coming (nevermind if you actually know where you mean to direct it)!

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11-21-2012, 10:08 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Those poor kids of the future, they'll only have millions of dollars and too many chicks to bang.

Some of you guys are pathetic with your player nut hugging. They can do no wrong in these negotiations right? Their offer today was the same thing it's always been, except worded differently.

What happens if the revenues continue to climb in the next 2 years, with maybe another Canadian team or two added, then the Canadian Dollars collapses again. Under the latest player proposal the league would have no way to protect against that.

And now you guys are suggesting physical retribution against Hamrlik because he wants to play hockey again, classy.
They should make the players travel coach, and stay in nothing but 3* motels when they make another counter offer...lol

The NHLPA thinks people care about their fortunes in this economic environment?

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:10 PM
  #857
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Where does "chicks to bang" enter the conversation?
It's called envy.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:32 PM
  #858
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Interesting. Really makes it seem like Hamrlik is in a minority and most of the players are still on Fehr's side.
Just maybe, Hamrlik is thinking is way ahead of most of the other players, what good has Fehr brought to the NHLPA, so far, nothing, a big fat zero, just a lot of talk about nothing, all he has done from day one since he has been in charge of the NHLPA is to tell the players how bad they have been mis-treated, even thouigh most are millionaires, thanks to the ***** owners that pay them millions.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, the only way this gets resolved is when more players like Hamrlik, stand up and say, what the efff are we doing doing here, we're all losing money, Fehr isn't going to pay for our lost income, PLAYERS, WAKE UP, really, you can't be that stupid, this is real money you are losing and in a lot of cases, players will never, ever be able to recoup this lost income, not to mention how many careers will be over because of dictator Fehr.
The more I hear players defending Fehr and bad mouthing the owners and the league, the owners that sign their million dollar paycheques, the more I realize how ignorant the players actually are, it's really pathetic, WAKE UP

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:35 PM
  #859
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I'm on #Team Hammer

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:35 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Interesting. Really makes it seem like Hamrlik is in a minority and most of the players are still on Fehr's side.
Oh no someone like Hammer has decided to challenge the union and now he's branded traitor. Cole is pathetic. Players have the right to have independant thought.

It's easy being part of the magority like any other players, having the position of "us against them" is a predictable stence, esp. if it's about competitive sportmen. It takes more guts to say hey wait a minute it's not working. Our guy doesn't get the job done.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:39 PM
  #861
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Am I only one who enjoyed the exchange between fan and bettman? Sure, they didn't agree but kind of cool the fan was frustrated and was very appreciative at the end. I think that's cool. Not really related to the negotiations but wtv.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:48 PM
  #862
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What's wrong with what Hamrlik said?

Not all unions are based on the idea of the future.

I've been part of a strike before, I didn't vote for it but people at my work did. They removed all future bonuses for new employees and all current employees got a raise.

Hamrlik can also want to care about his best interests. In any case, what's wrong with what he said? Fehr is there to make a deal and get the players playing on their terms. Sure, Fehr has done his job, but fact remains some players were happy with previous offers by the league and just wanted to play. When people get money like Fehr/Bettman are, people expect results, got forbid Hamrlik feels he's lost out on a year at the highest level, salary and will lose his rights anyway.

I don't know why Cole made it personal with comments like this:

Quote:
"Because of his conversations with Josh (Habs NHLPA rep Josh Gorges), some of the things he's said to him in private conversations and Josh has been just like, 'Is this guy serious?' We couldn't believe what his stance was on certain things," said Cole.
Really? If it's a private convo with your rep, then you turn back on him now and he's supposedly the traitor? whatever. Hamrlik is allowed to have his opinion, wrong or right.

Cole is allowed to disagree obviously, nothing wrong there, just trying to paint hamrlik as some solo artist. What a ruse! There's prob plenty who just want to play. I find it comical. I bet so many people are afraid of stepping up and voicing their displeasure with Fehr.

Does it make them right if they disagree with Fehr? Maybe, maybe not, but pretending it's some small minority is hilarious.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:50 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
WHAT?

The union was so strong it bankrupted the whole thing. Are you out of your MIND? Unions forget that companies (or governments, as is the problem in Québec) don't have infinite amounts of money too easily.

I'm happy Hamrlik broke silence - and in something else than Puck Gary caps. He can't be the only one thinking like that. Remember, it's his 4th work stoppage.
Smoke and mirrors. Vulture capitalists bought Hostess and gave it the Gillette treatment. Borrowed money in the company's name and paid it into their own accounts. When the company ran out of loot they wanted to sell of the brands so they had to shut down. It didn't matter what the union agreed to the new owners wanted to cash out. Operating was not going to be profitable enough even if everyone worked for free but the brands will bring in some cash the owners can grab before they leave a crater with the government picking up what's left of pension obligations.

I'm sure the guys who bought Hostess are totally thrilled that some people actually believe the union is the problem.

The NHL is not really similar, no one is talking about shutting down long term. Bettman made a bunch of crappy decisions for hockey that were balanced by the Candian dollar and Canadian fans. Now the unpopular US franchises are losing money and they want to grab back from the players. Most of the other owners seem to think that no matter how much they crap on the game revenues will keep going up so they had better make sure they have a good share.

Just wait until the Canadian dollar drops a bit and/or both economies drop due to offshoring, austerity, and political corruption; there won't be much to split and both sides will regret what they lost in the lockout. A 400 million dollar gap is worth more than the whole league after an economic meltdown.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:27 PM
  #864
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I used to be on the player's side.. Now I just hate both side equally.

I hate that they playing a patience negotiation game. Give as little as possible at every offer because they are too scare to give to much for the other side to work on.

They have reached a point that I am ready to sacrifice my own pleasure just to see them lose a ******** of money by cancelling this season. And when they come back, I hope to see empty arenas everywhere, revenues dropping, salarial cap dropping etc etc.. **** them.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:37 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
What's wrong with what Hamrlik said?

Not all unions are based on the idea of the future.

I've been part of a strike before, I didn't vote for it but people at my work did. They removed all future bonuses for new employees and all current employees got a raise.

Hamrlik can also want to care about his best interests. In any case, what's wrong with what he said? Fehr is there to make a deal and get the players playing on their terms. Sure, Fehr has done his job, but fact remains some players were happy with previous offers by the league and just wanted to play. When people get money like Fehr/Bettman are, people expect results, got forbid Hamrlik feels he's lost out on a year at the highest level, salary and will lose his rights anyway.

I don't know why Cole made it personal with comments like this:



Really? If it's a private convo with your rep, then you turn back on him now and he's supposedly the traitor? whatever. Hamrlik is allowed to have his opinion, wrong or right.

Cole is allowed to disagree obviously, nothing wrong there, just trying to paint hamrlik as some solo artist. What a ruse! There's prob plenty who just want to play. I find it comical. I bet so many people are afraid of stepping up and voicing their displeasure with Fehr.

Does it make them right if they disagree with Fehr? Maybe, maybe not, but pretending it's some small minority is hilarious.
I think Cole is full of crap.

First off, what Hammer said is no different than what Crosby or any other player has said about the NHL. He's unhappy, annoyed, wants to hold a vote among players to see who wants to play, and doesn't want to waste his possible last year in the NHL (oh my god, you mean he doesn't want to be forced into retirement? The selfishness I tell you!!!).

Cole has every right to disagree, but to say it's good he's not sitting across the room from him, and that he should just stay in Czech if that's his opinion, is very hypocritical, stupid and childish.

In the same interview, he says he's not surprised at all the NHL refused their offer, yet just a little bit after he said ''before today, we were saying, there's no way they're going to refuse the offer''. So which is it? Make up your crappy ideas.

Also, pretty classless to talk about conversations that were private, especially when he wasn't even present during them.


I don't buy this BS ''we're doing it for the future kids''. Maybe he's doing it. I doubt guys that went on record to say ''I'll stay in the KHL if there's a rollback'' care about anything other than themselves.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:12 AM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
WHAT?

The union was so strong it bankrupted the whole thing. Are you out of your MIND? Unions forget that companies (or governments, as is the problem in Québec) don't have infinite amounts of money too easily
It's the unions fault that the private equity firm that owned Hostess mismanaged it for a decade and the executives decided to give themselves record bonuses even as the company entered the red?

This situation is nothing like Hostess, and if it was, the Hostess workers agreed to far more concessions than the NHLPA did before going on strike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I am impressed with Erik Cole's personal ethics, character, and intelligence.
Nothing says ethics like a millionaire crying about taking a pay cut when others are out of work because of the lock out. Cole has already threatened to retire if he doesn't get his way. Like Hamrlik he is looking out for himself, he's full of BS.

Hamrlik is being selfish sure, he's also a player whose life is hockey who doesn't want his career to end. Everyone in this situation is looking out for themselves, Hamrlik just has the balls to admit it instead of hiding behind some garbage sob story.

To call out a guy for what he said privately and then cry solidarity makes Cole a hypocrite. I'm losing a lot of respect for him.


Last edited by Et le But: 11-22-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old
11-22-2012, 12:27 AM
  #867
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Nothing says ethics like a millionaire crying about taking a pay cut when others are out of work because of the lock out. Cole has already threatened to retire if he doesn't get his way. Like Hamrlik he is looking out for himself, he's full of BS.

Hamrlik is being selfish sure, he's also a player whose life is hockey who doesn't want his career to end. Everyone in this situation is looking out for themselves, Hamrlik just has the balls to admit it instead of hiding behind some garbage sob story.
I think it's good of players to recognize that the reason they're making more than $30,000/year or even $150,000/year, the reason they have rights such as getting paid even if they're injured from a hockey play, etc. is because of the sacrifices of previous generations of players, and that they should not throw away what was fought for in the name of short-term gain.

Anyhow, I've since realized that Cole's remarks could be justified on selfish grounds. If the current players throw future players under the bus, what's to stop the NHL from stealing the pension in 10 or 15 years? Nothing whatsoever if there isn't a strong union.


Last edited by DAChampion: 11-22-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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11-22-2012, 12:34 AM
  #868
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What Cole said(and other idiots like Brad May) about Hammer is the equivalent of saying "sit in the corner and shut up! you have no say whatsoever" and that to me is the worst type of union-style action that I always hated.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:35 AM
  #869
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think it's good of players to recognize that the reason they're making more than $40,000/year, the reason they have rights such as getting paid even if they're injured from a hockey play, etc. is because of the sacrifices of previous generations of players, and that they should not throw away what was fought for in the name of short-term gain.

Anyhow, I've since realized that Cole's remarks could be justified on selfish grounds. If the current players throw future players under the bus, what's to stop the NHL from stealing the pension in 10 or 15 years? Nothing whatsoever if there isn't a strong union.
Realistically, the best way to ensure future players make a good living, is by playing and making the league as good as it can be - the reason these guys are making so much money today is because of the league's revenue. If they hold out 2 years, it doesn't matter how right they are when the league loses its fanbase outside of Canada completely.

I think it's important for them to have a functioning and aggressive union but they need to be pragmatic about the league's sustainability too.

Both sides have angered me, I get that the players don't want to be pushed around but they need to cut it out with these comments trying to make them sound like martyrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
What Cole said(and other idiots like Brad May) about Hammer is the equivalent of saying "sit in the corner and shut up! you have no say whatsoever" and that to me is the worst type of union-style action that I always hated.
Even as someone who is very strongly pro-union, I can see how they get a bad rap. While that kind of hegemony helps when fighting against the power of capital, it also can lead to excess and corruption...

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:54 AM
  #870
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This is the kind of future Cole is building "for the kids", if the current situation keeps up:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle5545211/

One where there's no CBA at all, where the owners can't force you to take a cut collectively...because you are all on your own, and your contract is as good as your lawyer is. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

Of course like in the NFL and NBA it's likely a threat, but this is a dangerous game here.

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11-22-2012, 01:52 AM
  #871
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I can't handle how whiny some of the players are on twitter...

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11-22-2012, 02:15 AM
  #872
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I can't handle how whiny some of the players are on twitter...
You're not only one. Prust's "ruining a nation" comment was laughable.

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11-22-2012, 03:59 AM
  #873
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What Cole said(and other idiots like Brad May) about Hammer is the equivalent of saying "sit in the corner and shut up! you have no say whatsoever" and that to me is the worst type of union-style action that I always hated.
FYI the owners have the same policy of speaking with one voice.

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11-22-2012, 04:05 AM
  #874
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Etc let but,

It is important to recognize that half the battle here is setting the starting terms of the 2018 lockout negotiations. If the players just fold, the owners could demand 30, 40, or 50% next time as the austerity era cements itself.

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11-22-2012, 04:36 AM
  #875
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Cole is a ****** bag. Hammer is entitled to his opinion. Maybe, just maybe Hammer never agreed with the players position in the first place.

Who is looking out for Hammer here? Cole, Fehr, the PA? Gimme a break, if the PA has their way, the older borderline retired players won't get another season. Not that I have a bone in this fight, but Cole comes off as a loser. Bringing up private comments with JG, how unprofessional are these guys?

Cole, you lost some respect from me. I think you're an idiot.

I wonder who is going to pay the 400+ million lost in players salaries as well. Cole you should start up a collection.

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