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Your image, which side of the world is "dumbest"?

View Poll Results: Which of these two countries have lover average book knowledge/intelligence?
Northern Europe 33 25.98%
United States 94 74.02%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:45 AM
  #51
Krishna
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Originally Posted by f1nn View Post
This, IMO, is the problem. Why is it education that suffers from budget cuts? If a country doesn't invest in education how can you expect to keep up? I think especially in the US not nearly enough emphasis and thought is given to the importance of a strong educational system. In Finland I would say the problem is almost opposite.. education (even university) is free and in fact you get government money as a student (I get 500 euros a month for free, plus 300 euros a month in government backed student loans with an interest rate around one percent if I wish) but I feel this almost diminishes the worth of having a degree.. all I have left in my bachelors degree is a semester exchange starting in January and everyone is shocked when I say I'm not sure if I'll continue to my masters.. I mean how far can you go with only a BScBA in Finland they say?
My state cut public funding to college students about 2 years back. Most of the people who were in public universities at that time, like myself, saw their tuition rise from about 11k USD a year to anywhere from 15k to 18k USD a year. It's ridiculous.

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
America is also a bigger country, there are more universities, so they're more likely to have more in the top 20. Also you have to take into consideration international students, who are more likely to want to study in America than anywhere else because of the living standards.

So I think you can't really conclude from university rankings, which country has the highest average intelligence.
International students tend go to America for university for the quality of the education, not for the living standards. Believe me, I'm one of them.

America is a more populous country than Britain, but - despite the overwhelming Anglophone bias - not the most populous in the world, and lists like this that pretend to evaluate all the universities in the world have many less entries from countries closer in population to America.

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:48 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
My kids will get a good education as well. I will make sure of it. Its not hard to find a good free public school and its even easier to find a good private school. Combined with supplemental education provided by me at home they will be perfectly fine as well. What happens to my neighbors' kids is their problem.

There are plenty of high quality students churned out year after year after year. NASA, the CIA, the FBI, public companies like E&Y, Goldman, Google, Apple as well as thousands of smaller successful ventures are all mostly stocked with American school system graduates (in the US). And there is no shortage of qualified candidates waiting in the wings. The problem I see with the American school system is the need and desire to send everyone to a traditional college. Some people are just not made for that type of career. There is nothing wrong with being a plumber, or electrician. Yet many students who would be perfectly, suitable, capable and happy in doing such a job are sent off to college where they inevitably burn out, fail out or simply are not cut out for that type of corporate world.

Trade schools need to become more prevalent in America.
There are a lot of trade schools in the US and they were very common in the 90s and into the early 2000s. But lately with the push to send everyone to a traditional college, there's been a stance towards them that they are for the less intelliegent people. That also needs to change

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:49 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
My kids will get a good education as well. I will make sure of it. Its not hard to find a good free public school and its even easier to find a good private school. Combined with supplemental education provided by me at home they will be perfectly fine as well. What happens to my neighbors' kids is their problem.

There are plenty of high quality students churned out year after year after year. NASA, the CIA, the FBI, public companies like E&Y, Goldman, Google, Apple as well as thousands of smaller successful ventures are all mostly stocked with American school system graduates (in the US). And there is no shortage of qualified candidates waiting in the wings. The problem I see with the American school system is the need and desire to send everyone to a traditional college. Some people are just not made for that type of career. There is nothing wrong with being a plumber, or electrician. Yet many students who would be perfectly, suitable, capable and happy in doing such a job are sent off to college where they inevitably burn out, fail out or simply are not cut out for that type of corporate world.

Trade schools need to become more prevalent in America.
I agree. But I think it should be before university even. I think the Finnish system is good in regards to high school.. either you go or you don't but you also have a third option, trade school. As you said nothing wrong with being a mechanic etc so why not have the option of training to be one once you've finished middle school (although in Finland middle school ends when you're 15-16)

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10-27-2012, 09:59 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Deficient Mode View Post
International students tend go to America for university for the quality of the education, not for the living standards. Believe me, I'm one of them.

America is a more populous country than Britain, but - despite the overwhelming Anglophone bias - not the most populous in the world, and lists like this that pretend to evaluate all the universities in the world have many less entries from countries closer in population to America.
But you're German, living standards are fairly similar to the USA. Most of the internationals in my university are Asians and I only go to an "average" university by UK standards, if they were here for the better education they'd go to a better university, most of them are certainly capable.

But the only countries with higher populations are China and India, who are obviously still developing economies, as are the next 5 most populous. The USA has more than 3x the population of the UK, but going by the ranking LancelotLink posted the USA only has just over 2x the amount of universities in the top 25.

But still, I don't believe you can use university rankings to judge average intelligence, which is the point of the thread.

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Old
10-27-2012, 10:00 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1nn View Post
I agree. But I think it should be before university even. I think the Finnish system is good in regards to high school.. either you go or you don't but you also have a third option, trade school. As you said nothing wrong with being a mechanic etc so why not have the option of training to be one once you've finished middle school (although in Finland middle school ends when you're 15-16)
I agree with this. I wouldn't want kids to be sent to a trade school at 13 or 14. But a trade school should exist that would replace junior and senior year of our traditional high school. Kids who show aptitude for that kind of career can then decide to go to one of these schools (and they'd be old enough to make a rational decision).

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10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
I agree with this. I wouldn't want kids to be sent to a trade school at 13 or 14. But a trade school should exist that would replace junior and senior year of our traditional high school. Kids who show aptitude for that kind of career can then decide to go to one of these schools (and they'd be old enough to make a rational decision).
These type of things exist already. There are a lot of trade high schools that allow the student to take very few classes in class and the rest is on the job training that is graded by the boss of the student.

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10-27-2012, 10:04 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
I agree with this. I wouldn't want kids to be sent to a trade school at 13 or 14. But a trade school should exist that would replace junior and senior year of our traditional high school. Kids who show aptitude for that kind of career can then decide to go to one of these schools (and they'd be old enough to make a rational decision).
This is exactly what we do in the UK. We have 2 less years of high school so you finish at age 16, then you can go on to do academic subjects or go to a vocational college/what you call trade school.

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Old
10-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
These type of things exist already. There are a lot of trade high schools that allow the student to take very few classes in class and the rest is on the job training that is graded by the boss of the student.
They do exist but they don't exist on the type of scale they should exist on. Some of these trade high schools are really just programs within poor performing schools where they could shuffle their poor performing students into. That shouldn't be the function of a trade school.

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10-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Northern Europe isn't a country

But with an average North American I don't think they are dumber "book-wise" but they seem much more ignorant of the rest of the world.
This prettymuch echos my thoughts. The average Swede or Finn probably has a much better understanding of the US then the average American has of Finland or Sweden. Not to say that they have all that great a knowledge of us but on the whole most Americans seem to be blissfully ignorant of the rest of the world. Not necessarily dumb, just that they really couldn't give a damn if it doesn't effect them.

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Old
10-27-2012, 10:09 AM
  #61
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I voted Northern Europe because the poll asks which has the "lover average".

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10-27-2012, 10:14 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
But you're German, living standards are fairly similar to the USA. Most of the internationals in my university are Asians and I only go to an "average" university by UK standards, if they were here for the better education they'd go to a better university, most of them are certainly capable.

But the only countries with higher populations are China and India, who are obviously still developing economies, as are the next 5 most populous. The USA has more than 3x the population of the UK, but going by the ranking LancelotLink posted the USA only has just over 2x the amount of universities in the top 25.

But still, I don't believe you can use university rankings to judge average intelligence, which is the point of the thread.
Unless my arithmetic is wrong - blame it on the American part of my education - there are 14 American universities on that list and 5 UK universities, so almost 3x as many.

Regarding international students, I believe many American universities don't offer them financial aid at all, so they have to pay the full price themselves. Not really worth a bump in quality of living if you have to pay over $100,000 to get it.

Agreed that university rankings certainly don't prove average intelligence even of their own student bodies, much less the people in the countries that host them.

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10-27-2012, 10:21 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Deficient Mode View Post
Unless my arithmetic is wrong - blame it on the American part of my education - there are 14 American universities on that list and 5 UK universities, so almost 3x as many.

Regarding international students, I believe many American universities don't offer them financial aid at all, so they have to pay the full price themselves. Not really worth a bump in quality of living if you have to pay over $100,000 to get it.

Agreed that university rankings certainly don't prove average intelligence even of their own student bodies, much less the people in the countries that host them.
I counted 6 from the UK for some reason, my bad.

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10-27-2012, 11:07 AM
  #64
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Not an answer to the question, but this George Carlin quote immediately popped into my head while reading this thread.......

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin

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10-27-2012, 11:09 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I counted 6 from the UK for some reason, my bad.
I blame the UK educational system.

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10-27-2012, 11:18 AM
  #66
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Why does this surprise you? Do you think America and Canada are enemies?
No, but he acted like i offended his nation, which i did not. Also, read the post, it was out of the world how off base it was.

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10-27-2012, 11:19 AM
  #67
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No, but he acted like i offended his nation, which i did not. Also, read the post, it was out of the world how off base it was.
The way your post is, it does come off as a thinly veiled bash attempt at the US. Which is hilarious because you called North Europe a country.

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10-27-2012, 11:24 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
It’s no secret that most of the best private schools and universities (colleges) are located in the USA.
The only place that comes close is the UK.
And, for the most part, those Universities aren't being attended by Americans. I'm curious if you've looked at International enrollment in the USA's top universities. It's getting pretty ridiculous. Even in my school, which is about average ranking wise (UC Davis) has tons and tons of international students.

There was a NPR story on Indian college situation and basically their best colleges are so impacted that the students who can't get into them use Harvard and other ivy league schools as a fall back. Clearly because we have good Universities in the US that means that the citizens, even the ones not attending them, are smart...

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10-27-2012, 11:25 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
My kids will get a good education as well. I will make sure of it. Its not hard to find a good free public school and its even easier to find a good private school. Combined with supplemental education provided by me at home they will be perfectly fine as well. What happens to my neighbors' kids is their problem.

There are plenty of high quality students churned out year after year after year. NASA, the CIA, the FBI, public companies like E&Y, Goldman, Google, Apple as well as thousands of smaller successful ventures are all mostly stocked with American school system graduates (in the US). And there is no shortage of qualified candidates waiting in the wings. The problem I see with the American school system is the need and desire to send everyone to a traditional college. Some people are just not made for that type of career. There is nothing wrong with being a plumber, or electrician. Yet many students who would be perfectly, suitable, capable and happy in doing such a job are sent off to college where they inevitably burn out, fail out or simply are not cut out for that type of corporate world.

Trade schools need to become more prevalent in America.
This statement is pure BS since you can't guarantee nothing without your country. Now if you think that you have high enough education system, then fine. But by no means is it reasonable to expect your children/their children to get proper education with attitude like this.

You are more than willing to exploit all the benefits that your country gives but you don't want your children to have the same benefit? Cause after few years you don't have good education if you don't work on the issues. This does not mean that trade school should be left out. Why not improve them? I am a trade school student originally. My first profession was an electrician.

Your country falls in the top-20/30 category in education systems. Finland is year in year out top-5 and i can find many things wrong in our system and think it should be improved.

You have analogy that leaves your country just standing still. Hopefully that is not the general idea of american people.

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10-27-2012, 11:30 AM
  #70
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This statement is pure BS since you can't guarantee nothing without your country.
In what language is it proper to use double negatives?

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10-27-2012, 11:32 AM
  #71
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The way your post is, it does come off as a thinly veiled bash attempt at the US. Which is hilarious because you called North Europe a country.
Yeah and i am ashamed of this, very deeply.

Not the bashing part, but the calling Europe a country part.

But i have to say, that i might be offensive towards USA which is not right, sorry.

I just feel that there is lot to improve and it is worth of discussion. Maybe i come off as a arrogant a-hole, but not i don't do it on porpoise.

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10-27-2012, 11:34 AM
  #72
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In what language is it proper to use double negatives?
In the country called Europe.

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Old
10-27-2012, 11:40 AM
  #73
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Tannala, would you trade a weaker education system to get rid of the conscription in finland?

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10-27-2012, 11:45 AM
  #74
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I don't find it all that practical to compare the U.S. to a country like Finland. For one, you're just not that important.

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10-27-2012, 11:51 AM
  #75
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The dumbest thing here is the discussion itself.

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