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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

Why there were no lockouts in the NHL until 1994?

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:56 AM
  #1
Chukcha
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Why there were no lockouts in the NHL until 1994?

Can anyone explain?

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10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
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Hynh
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Not enough money to argue over.

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10-27-2012, 10:43 AM
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Shawa666
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Alan Eagleson

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10-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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MarkhamNHL
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Bettman was still NBA until then

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10-27-2012, 10:48 AM
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Mwd711
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Alan Eagleson was pretty much the NHLPA's only guy. He ran it with an iron fist and he had serious conflicts of interest. He was best friends with John Ziegler and very close with Bill Wirtz. Ziegler, Wirtz and Eagleson pretty much ran the league for many years. That relationship brought labor peace to the league for all those years. There won't be another league/union partnership that close ever again. Paul Kelly seemed to want to attempt it and we know what happened to him.

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10-27-2012, 10:56 AM
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LPHabsFan
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Because when Eagelson left and was replaced by Goodenow, he and the NHL (Ziegler) continued to negotiate an expired CBA in good faith. Goodenow decided to use the only real leverage he has and organized a 10 day strike on April 1st holding the playoffs hostage. The tried negotiating, couldn't, mediator stepped in and an agreement was had.

This led to the firing of Ziegler and in came Bettman a year later. There was also an NFL strike in 1987. They learned the hard to way to lock players out before they have a chance to strike.

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10-27-2012, 11:04 AM
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MoreOrr
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League was smaller and less costly to the owners. Fewer people, all round, easier to make decisions that all can agree to.

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10-27-2012, 11:08 AM
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pepty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwd711 View Post
Alan Eagleson was pretty much the NHLPA's only guy. He ran it with an iron fist and he had serious conflicts of interest. He was best friends with John Ziegler and very close with Bill Wirtz. Ziegler, Wirtz and Eagleson pretty much ran the league for many years. That relationship brought labor peace to the league for all those years. There won't be another league/union partnership that close ever again. Paul Kelly seemed to want to attempt it and we know what happened to him.
Paul Kelly is the man who brought Eagelson down and put him behind bars.
He is the last person on earth who would ever try to emulate him.

When the RCMP did nothing and the power elite in Canada bowed and scraped to the "Eagel',it was Paul Kelly who acted against him.

Because Kelly has a more reasonable and less confrontational approach does not mean he was weak, quite the contrary.

Here is a pretty good article done at the time Kelly was fired in a middle of the night coup by a collection of union hacks and egotistical former players- oh and Buzz Hargrove. It also shows why relations are so rancorous between thNHl and NHLPA:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=4435098
.
The outcome of the weekend's events is all in keeping with what appears to be a dangerous return to the Stone Age of labor negotiations that should put fear into all the league's players and its fans.

"Scary days," one prominent player agent told ESPN.com Monday morning.

One former NHLPA executive member said if it's true one of the reasons Kelly was overthrown was the fact he wasn't confrontational enough with NHL executives, it's a bad sign for future negotiations. "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard," he said.

He said it's important for the league and players to have a close relationship given the nature of the current collective bargaining agreement, which sees the league and players share in hockey-related revenues. He warned that without such a relationship, there is a potential to return to the "tragic" days of the past when there were frequent labor interruptions.

If not, good luck. Good luck to the NHLPA, which will get exactly what it deserves, a step back to the Stone Age. Good luck to the fans, who can expect only rancor and, at some point, another, potentially lethal, labor stoppage.


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Old
10-27-2012, 11:11 AM
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Rabid Husky
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Read Money Players, you'll find out.

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Old
10-27-2012, 11:12 AM
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Mwd711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Because when Eagelson left and was replaced by Goodenow, he and the NHL (Ziegler) continued to negotiate an expired CBA in good faith. Goodenow decided to use the only real leverage he has and organized a 10 day strike on April 1st holding the playoffs hostage. The tried negotiating, couldn't, mediator stepped in and an agreement was had.

This led to the firing of Ziegler and in came Bettman a year later. There was also an NFL strike in 1987. They learned the hard to way to lock players out before they have a chance to strike.
You're partially correct. I don't believe a mediator was ever brought in. It was Goodenow who made the call to Ziegler to make a deal because the players were unhappy. Goodenow and the PA never really believed the owners would be willing to cancel the playoffs. He miscalculated on that. Goodenow had to make a deal or some of the players were going to revolt. At the same time, I don't think the owners ever thought the players would ever walk so Ziegler was feeling the heat. Needless to say it was a critical time and the league was never the same.

Ziegler didn't get tossed out because of the deal that was made. It was because Bill Wirtz didn't like the way that Ziegler ignored the BOG during some of the final talks. For owners who were already unhappy, it was perfect ammunition to get rid of Ziegler so that's what happened. Many owners had already felt that Ziegler had given up too much to the PA during Eagleson's reign. But Wirtz was always there to keep Ziegler in the job. Once Wirtz defected, that was it for Ziegler.

In the end, once Goodenow came to the PA, everything changed. The tactics for negotiating were much more hard line as players and agents felt that Eagleson wasn't strong enough and was too cozy with the league's power brokers. Goodenow was hired to be the opposite. That's the stance that the PA continues to take. Instead of being close to the league, they want the union to have strong barriers with the power brokers. And let's be honest, Bettman was also brought in to be a hardliner. The players were fleeced by Eagleson but many owners felt that Ziegler fleeced them by being too close to the Eagleson. Its a vicious circle.


Last edited by Mwd711: 10-27-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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10-27-2012, 11:18 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Paul Kelly is the man who brought Eagelson down and put him behind bars.
He is the last person on earth who would ever try to emulate him.

When the RCMP did nothing and the power elite in Canada bowed and scraped to the "Eagel',it was Paul Kelly who acted against him.

Because Kelly has a more reasonable and less confrontational approach does not mean he was weak, quite the contrary.
I'm not saying he would've been in the boardroom with Bettman, etc. like Eagleson did with Ziegler. But he did make plenty of overtures towards the league. Much more than Goodenow ever tried to. It was much closer to a partnership. I believe his tactics would've been much different than what you saw with Goodenow and what you have with Fehr. Kelly wanted to be more involved with the league as he saw that as a good thing for the players.

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10-27-2012, 11:20 AM
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Before then the NHLPA was basically in bed with the NHL. Doing what was best for the leader of the NHLPA, and not what was best for the players.

Some good reads....

"Net Worth"

"Game Misconduct"

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/lea...ness_books.htm

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10-27-2012, 11:28 AM
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BLONG7
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Now it's players and owners getting rich, and sticking to the fans via ticket prices and merchandise prices...the big FU if you will...

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10-27-2012, 11:36 AM
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rojac
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Now it's players and owners getting rich, and sticking to the fans via ticket prices and merchandise prices...the big FU if you will...
Ticket prices (and to a lesser extent, merchandise prices) are set by what people are willing to pay.

And if the prices are too high, don't buy. It's not like NHL tickets and merchandise are essentials that you can't live without.

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10-27-2012, 12:46 PM
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pld459666
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Eagleson was a crook and that is the ONLY reason there was labor peace. He was in the owners pockets.

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10-28-2012, 01:26 AM
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Some players still had day jobs, maybe not in the early 90's but for sure the 80's

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10-28-2012, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Eagleson was a crook and that is the ONLY reason there was labor peace. He was in the owners pockets.
Proof that crime does pay. Can we get him back in?

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10-28-2012, 01:50 AM
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The real answer is TV. By mid 90's well over 90% of games available anywhere via satellite. Cable and dedicated sports channels had matured. Broadcasting/advertising revenues surged. Therefore, players wanted more of a rapidly growing pie.

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10-28-2012, 03:42 AM
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I'm not saying he would've been in the boardroom with Bettman, etc. like Eagleson did with Ziegler. But he did make plenty of overtures towards the league. Much more than Goodenow ever tried to. It was much closer to a partnership. I believe his tactics would've been much different than what you saw with Goodenow and what you have with Fehr. Kelly wanted to be more involved with the league as he saw that as a good thing for the players.
I much rather Kelly. I didn't like he was fired. Seemed like a good guy. We're stuck with Fehr now.

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10-28-2012, 03:46 AM
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Money has ruined the NHL and sports in general. It's all about business these days; billionaires and multi-millionaires arguing about money and lawyers/non-hockey people making the big decisions.

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10-28-2012, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Eagleson was a crook and that is the ONLY reason there was labor peace. He was in the owners pockets.
Eagleson was the main reason there was peace and he's the main reason why we now have unlimited conflict.

The moment the players learned what he had done, they wanted revenge, they hired Goodnow, a tough business practice type and to counterstrike the NHL hired Bettman so it became a more sanitized more cold business-oriented NHL.

And it's like the players still have that doubt, that hate about the owners.

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10-28-2012, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I much rather Kelly. I didn't like he was fired. Seemed like a good guy. We're stuck with Fehr now.
Kelly would be my pick to replace Bettman as league Commish. We need a nice guy that has integrity.

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10-28-2012, 07:26 AM
  #23
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Bettman was still NBA until then
This, Bettman is the sole reason behind the lockouts.

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10-28-2012, 09:25 AM
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Its a simple answer. Gary Bettman, he became the commissioner in 1993. It shows that with a competent commissioner that labor disputes were fixed.

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10-28-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
This, Bettman is the sole reason behind the lockouts.
Bettman isn't the whole problem. That's a very simplistic way to look at things. Yes Bettman is a cold and collected business type but Fehr's actions in regard to MLB and the 94 World Series changed labour negotiations for ALL leagues regardless of commissioner. Off hand I can't think of any league operating the way they did prior to 1994 following the strike.

Even then the World Series strike is only part of the problem as well.

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