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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Blinkage, Linkage & Stinkage (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XVII

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Old
10-28-2012, 12:21 PM
  #201
rdawg1234
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
That's where I disagree with the players.

Contraction is in the best interest of the league. Either that or relocation.
There really arent that many teams in need of being thrown away.

Pheonix needs to be relocated to either Quebec or Seattle.

NYI just had a bad arena, Florida doesn't bleed that much, the rest I believe are pretty much close to breaking even or only losing a couple million a year.(at least according to forbes.)

It wouldnt surprise me if there's actually expansion. Pheonix to quebec, then Seattle+One other team added(GTA, Portland etc.).

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10-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #202
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Just get rid of the small market teams. Problem solved

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10-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #203
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Just get rid of the small market teams. Problem solved
Yeah, that way we can increase the average income per team and thus raise the salary floor. I'm sure that will be of great benefit to the mid-market teams.

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10-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #204
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BAD LEADERSHIP?!!?! In what labour negotiations do you get locked out and say "Every offer we counter or reject...the other side says they will only get worse. Krikey! We better sign one of these things ASAP!"

Remember that first offer by the league? Should the PA have accepted that? Since it'll "only get worse from here" right?
This has nothing to do with their first offer. Of course the first offer is going to get better. But what makes this completely different is that the offer has now gotten worse by MORE than the amount that separated the last two offers. You never recover from that. If the NHL completely buckles tomorrow and takes the PA's last offer, the PA still loses money as opposed to what they'd have made by taking the NHL's last offer (or at least a variation on it, which they never even bothered to negotiate for). The NHL isn't going to offer the PA more than the PA's last offer. And that means, de facto, the PA has already lost. Obviously, and badly, and sadly, because most of the PA doesn't seem to realize it.

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10-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Just get rid of the small market teams. Problem solved
Because I'm sure the NHLPA wants to lose a ton of jobs!

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Old
10-28-2012, 12:41 PM
  #206
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In the NFL model, players get a percentage of profits, not of revenues. With their $9B revenue, something like $2B is taken out of the pots for the owners' operating expenses, then the remaining money is split 50/50 between the owners and players. That's really the model that makes sense, in my opinion. Pay the bills, then divide up the pie.

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10-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
Geez.....players are greedy, players are arrogant, players are highschool dropouts, players have a sense of entitlement, players have lost touch with reality.

You're on a hockey message board. What do you want? Players to be making $55,000 a year and the league to be no better than an Old Timer's beer league?!?

They are good at what they do, people (US!!) pay to see them play...this makes Owners money, those Owners pay their players what they feel they are worth so the Owner can make more money.

People that bash the player's intellect, education, etc. seem like extremely jealous babies that wish they could be making the money players make.

Johnny Depp dropped out of highschool at the age of 15. He makes about $20M a film. He seems quite intelligent. Shouldn't he be in the same grouping as these NHLers you talk about?

What's funny about Couture is that his Dad is a firefighter and his Mom is a teacher. Those people mentioned in other posts that should get more respect, pay, etc. as they are more important to society. Couture...and most NHLers, I'd wager, have graduated high school.
That makes Couture even more out of touch. Where did he even get that salary 25% deduction from? Players like him have ZERO clue on what's been going on for the past 2 months.

With very few exceptions (Boyle, Miller, etc), either the players:

1) are too lazy to bother reading NHL's last offer which was made public in its entirety
or
2) believe whatever Fehr feeds them and have next to none critical thinking and analytical ability.

Take your pick.


Last edited by CN_paladin: 10-28-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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10-28-2012, 12:49 PM
  #208
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You know, truly incompetent mangers could pull off a successful CBA. Think of it, the NHL is doing really really well as is. How can you lose? Yet Bettman and Fehr are able to trash the whole league single handed. If you make Don Cherry NHL commishiner and Wayne Gretzky head of the NHLPA, there will be no lockouts, no strikes, no new sunbelt teams in Las Vegas, everybody will be happy, the league and players will be happy, well maybe not the Leafs, they're never happy.

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10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
  #209
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Columbus Metro area has near 900,000 population alone, places like Vancouver who would be considered big market look like dwarfs compared to the Columbus market. Columbus needs to put together some good years and the Blue Jackets will likely be one of the top 10 NHL markets. The I doubt the NHL would ever consider contracting or moving Columbus unless the fans don't show up when we are winning which I highly doubt would happen. Columbus is a big sports city and there losses don't stem from player salary, they stem from a terrible team, and previously a terrible building lease.

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10-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by ScubaSteve View Post
In the NFL model, players get a percentage of profits, not of revenues. With their $9B revenue, something like $2B is taken out of the pots for the owners' operating expenses, then the remaining money is split 50/50 between the owners and players. That's really the model that makes sense, in my opinion. Pay the bills, then divide up the pie.
Thats a 50% haircut to the players, even I would not want that.

Maybe better put. TV contract pays players in the NFL, owners then pretty much equally share the rest of revenue. Propose that to the players ......

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10-28-2012, 12:55 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by ScubaSteve View Post
In the NFL model, players get a percentage of profits, not of revenues. With their $9B revenue, something like $2B is taken out of the pots for the owners' operating expenses, then the remaining money is split 50/50 between the owners and players. That's really the model that makes sense, in my opinion. Pay the bills, then divide up the pie.
I don't even think half of the players realize the differences between REVENUES and PROFITS. Record revenues don't mean jack if only a quarter of the team can turn a profit year in and year out.

Of course no one wants a salary reduction but throwing some random numbers out there when Couture cries foul to the public just makes him look ridiculously dumb.

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10-28-2012, 12:55 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
You know, truly incompetent mangers could pull off a successful CBA. Think of it, the NHL is doing really really well as is. How can you lose? Yet Bettman and Fehr are able to trash the whole league single handed. If you make Don Cherry NHL commishiner and Wayne Gretzky head of the NHLPA, there will be no lockouts, no strikes, no new sunbelt teams in Las Vegas, everybody will be happy, the league and players will be happy, well maybe not the Leafs, they're never happy.
Cherry would never take it because then he would be answerable to the owners.

Gretzky is already considered a turn coat by many players for his stance with the owners last time (as he was one of them).

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10-28-2012, 12:57 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
I don't even think half of the players realize the differences between REVENUES and PROFITS. Record revenues don't mean jack if only a quarter of the team can turn a profit year in and year out.

Of course no one wants a salary reduction but throwing some random numbers out there when Couture cries foul to the public just makes him look ridiculously dumb.
A lot of the posters also don't realize this. That's why they get so much support from people

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10-28-2012, 12:59 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
They proposed going to a 50/50 split. They are willing to give back.

And they lost the last one....big time. Revenues grew and made up for the huge paycut they took. Everyone should be happy. Owners aren't though...weird.

So when they give back this time (again)....what are the odds in 6 years they'll be asked to give back again? And again. And again.

It's not about splitting the pie differently....it's about how much differently it gets split compared to how it currently is.
Show we one proposal that the players made that is a 50/50 split.

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10-28-2012, 01:00 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Gotaf7 View Post
You sure about that?
Ha, ok. Back it up. How are the players asking for a gain from last contract? Where are they saying we want more here from the last deal? Even with contracts guaranteed, it comes to 54%, less than last year.

Hate the players if that's your pleasure, but you can't argue that they aren't giving up on everything.

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10-28-2012, 01:02 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Gotaf7 View Post
Show we one proposal that the players made that is a 50/50 split.
He said "going to" a 50/50 split

But it's pretty idiotic to think a proposal that reaches 50/50 in the last year of the deal as a true 50/50 deal

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10-28-2012, 01:03 PM
  #217
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The thing about profits is that the owners are generally unwilling to provide enough information in order to verify said profits or lack there of as being accurate. It's difficult to ask the party which you are demanding they take a x percent pay cut to take your word for it.

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10-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Ha, ok. Back it up. How are the players asking for a gain from last contract? Where are they saying we want more here from the last deal? Even with contracts guaranteed, it comes to 54%, less than last year.

Hate the players if that's your pleasure, but you can't argue that they aren't giving up on everything.
All of the players proposals have been linked to future growth and delinked from revenue, do you think there will be any growth in the league business this year or even next year?

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10-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Gotaf7 View Post
All of the players proposals have been linked to future growth and delinked from revenue, do you think there will be any growth in the league business this year or even next year?
Yes? It seems the owners find 5% to be a reasonable figure.

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10-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #220
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Talking about teachers and firemen isn't all that relevant. NHL players are, and should be, making a lot of money because they have a unique skill that is being used to generate massive amounts of money.

That teachers or firemen perform a job that in some respects can be considered more valuable is true, but there is a much larger supply of them than there is supply of NHL capable hockey players and what teachers/firefighters do don't really generate all that much revenue.

Why people are calling Couture stupid is a) His woe me act is offensive when a lot of people are struggling financially these days b) He is wrong. The owners will never reach into his wallet and take 25%. I don't know where he got that number from. c) He wrote "ur family" and "ur income".

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Old
10-28-2012, 01:09 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
The thing about profits is that the owners are generally unwilling to provide enough information in order to verify said profits or lack there of as being accurate. It's difficult to ask the party which you are demanding they take a x percent pay cut to take your word for it.
I'd say the 76000 pages of financial paperwork they gave the NHLPA is them providing information to verify it.

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10-28-2012, 01:11 PM
  #222
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He said "going to" a 50/50 split

But it's pretty idiotic to think a proposal that reaches 50/50 in the last year of the deal as a true 50/50 deal
True but ALL their proposals have been based on 7% growth and delinkage, if league revenue goes flat which it will for a few years anyway there share of the revenue goes up, some have suggested that at the end of the 6 years players could have over 60%. The owners will never accept a delinked offer so why do the players keep going there ?

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10-28-2012, 01:11 PM
  #223
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I'd say the 76000 pages of financial paperwork they gave the NHLPA is them providing information to verify it.
That's hockey related revenue. Not profit. All that non-hockey related revenue could easily bump and owner out of the red and into the black. To my understanding, that's how it works for Melynk at least.

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10-28-2012, 01:13 PM
  #224
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That's hockey related revenue. Not profit. All that non-hockey related revenue could easily bump and owner out of the red and into the black. To my understanding, that's how it works for Melynk at least.
non-hockey related revenue doesn't and shouldn't count. It's not hockey related. By that logic, we should make all of the owners submit any business ventures they are in on because it can give them some more money.

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10-28-2012, 01:16 PM
  #225
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non-hockey related revenue doesn't and shouldn't count. It's not hockey related. By that logic, we should make all of the owners submit any business ventures they are in on because it can give them some more money.
If my hockey team loses 3 million a year, but the fact I own the building which my team plays in makes me 4.7 million. You, as a player, would be okay with making concessions in tune with the fact your owner is losing 3 million dollars a year?

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