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The Official Arena Thread Part 6

View Poll Results: On what day will city council vote to finalize a new arena for Edmonton's downtown?
Between now and Christmas 2012 8 7.41%
Between New Year's Day and the end of February 2013 30 27.78%
Between March and July, 2013 16 14.81%
Before the October 2013 civic election 14 12.96%
Not until 2014 4 3.70%
Not until 2015 3 2.78%
Not until 2016 1 0.93%
Not until 2017 6 5.56%
Never 26 24.07%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-27-2012, 06:18 PM
  #726
Tedi
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
About once a month the house has a losing night. Sometimes it's minor, some times it's bad. I've seen nights where the casino also only profits a few hundred dollars. It's the nature of gambling. Slots are basically a guaranteed form of income over time, VLT's even more so however. Slots/VLT's can have losing nights, but over their life they will always fall into the formula where they pay out a certain percentage of what they take in. Slots that are in casino's are legally required to pay out a minimum of 85% of what they take in, so the casino over time makes 15 cents on the dollar for every slot. VLT's have a much bigger margin though, it's closer to a 60/40 split. Table Games can be a total crapshoot. But they are also very rarely big money makers, except of course for high limit rooms.

The ONLY income that a casino is sure to make on any given night is from poker. It's the best thing for a casino because it's purely no risk/all reward as long as you have a half decent dealer working for you. If they can pump out hands, you are making money on the rake.

And sorry, it kinda seemed like you might have taken what I said earlier about the people against Katz. I didn't mean that you were one of those guys that are basically against everything he has been trying to get done, but some guys around here have been. And honestly, if people knew who owned the other casino's and how little they gave a damn about Alberta (with a few exceptions), having someone like Katz as an operator would be pretty awesome. There has been a buzz running through the industry for nearly 8 years about Katz owning a casino, and many people were happy with the idea of him getting the Baccarats old stomping ground because a lot of casino workers are really not fan of that particular ownership group.
Fair enough and a valid point about Katz owning the Baccarat. As an insider I'm sure you can provide much more insight on the current state of ownership.

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:58 PM
  #727
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But the intent is that proceeds from a gambling establishment do not benefit or help profit one individual specifically. Why shouldn't all businesses get to subsidize their operations and thus become more profitable. Can you imagine if we had 20 more casinos, charities would never want for anything

Every casino has an owner. That would be an individual or group that seeks profit from operating the business (the house's cut).

Katz wanted(s) to be the owner of the casino so that the house cut can/could have offset maintaining the whole arena.

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12-27-2012, 10:01 PM
  #728
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Why would anyone look at the way the Oilers have been run since Katz bought them and think, "I want the guy in charge of that running the company I work for."

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Old
12-27-2012, 10:15 PM
  #729
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What a flawed and naive statement. But sure keep on telling me how I'm missing the obvious.
Not sure what your trying to say with that statement. A lot of canadian small business get tax breaks that help to keep them sustainable and grants that help to give individuals start up money. It's not a fallacy to say that business in Canada is aided with financial tax breaks, which in turn allows our economy to prosper while several others around the globe are suffering.

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12-27-2012, 10:21 PM
  #730
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Why would anyone look at the way the Oilers have been run since Katz bought them and think, "I want the guy in charge of that running the company I work for."
How could anyone look at Katz and not want him running your business. The guy took a little bit of cash and made a few billion. I'd consult with him on pretty much any business matter.

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12-27-2012, 10:55 PM
  #731
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How could anyone look at Katz and not want him running your business. The guy took a little bit of cash and made a few billion. I'd consult with him on pretty much any business matter.
True, but his skill in the Arena negotiation, the people he has hired him on to assist in that regard, & the teams performance since he bought the team strongly suggest that at least in those things, hes way out of his depth, and frankly, inept.

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12-27-2012, 11:01 PM
  #732
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How could anyone look at Katz and not want him running your business. The guy took a little bit of cash and made a few billion. I'd consult with him on pretty much any business matter.
What Katz is really good at is identifying poorly performing drug store chains, buying them out, and then increasing their return through good management hire. He doesn't manage these himself. He's great with crunching numbers and buying low and then selling at a later point when a chains returns represent some level of value. Not to diminish his accomplishment, but it isn't in management as much as its in acquisitions/mergers/. He's usually been good at identifying managers for the companies he has. Too bad in the Oilers case its Tambo.

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Old
12-27-2012, 11:43 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nye View Post
Every casino has an owner. That would be an individual or group that seeks profit from operating the business (the house's cut).

Katz wanted(s) to be the owner of the casino so that the house cut can/could have offset maintaining the whole arena.
And it isn't the worst idea in the world but he shouldn't garner special consideration because of this. Katz has been so brazzen in his attempts to manipulate the province, the city and in general the fans of the Oilers that it fringes on being criminal. It is almost like the Katz group considers themselves to be above the law. They know the city and province is handcuffed by regulations specifically in place to avoid conflict of interest but it would seem they don't really think this applies to them. FTR I am not in the anti-Katz briggade but I do find the Katz group is using despicable tactic in this deal. FTR I also want a new downtown arena but if the city is to partner up with Katz both sides should benefit fairly.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:21 AM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
About once a month the house has a losing night. Sometimes it's minor, some times it's bad. I've seen nights where the casino also only profits a few hundred dollars. It's the nature of gambling. Slots are basically a guaranteed form of income over time, VLT's even more so however. Slots/VLT's can have losing nights, but over their life they will always fall into the formula where they pay out a certain percentage of what they take in. Slots that are in casino's are legally required to pay out a minimum of 85% of what they take in, so the casino over time makes 15 cents on the dollar for every slot. VLT's have a much bigger margin though, it's closer to a 60/40 split. Table Games can be a total crapshoot. But they are also very rarely big money makers, except of course for high limit rooms.

The ONLY income that a casino is sure to make on any given night is from poker. It's the best thing for a casino because it's purely no risk/all reward as long as you have a half decent dealer working for you. If they can pump out hands, you are making money on the rake.

And sorry, it kinda seemed like you might have taken what I said earlier about the people against Katz. I didn't mean that you were one of those guys that are basically against everything he has been trying to get done, but some guys around here have been. And honestly, if people knew who owned the other casino's and how little they gave a damn about Alberta (with a few exceptions), having someone like Katz as an operator would be pretty awesome. There has been a buzz running through the industry for nearly 8 years about Katz owning a casino, and many people were happy with the idea of him getting the Baccarats old stomping ground because a lot of casino workers are really not fan of that particular ownership group.
For whatever its worth years ago I was an intern at a bank in New York. It was the summer of 2000 and Boyd Gaming was looking for financing to build the Borgata Casino in Atlantic City and I had to take a look and see if it was worth it. At the time (granted its been 12 years) Atlantic City Casinos made on average $350 per night on every slot machine and about $1200 on every table. All the casinos were attached to hotels and had other revenue streams as well but on average gaming revenues accounted for 70% and non gaming (rooms, food, tickets to whatever shows) were 30%.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:48 AM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
And it isn't the worst idea in the world but he shouldn't garner special consideration because of this. Katz has been so brazzen in his attempts to manipulate the province, the city and in general the fans of the Oilers that it fringes on being criminal. It is almost like the Katz group considers themselves to be above the law. They know the city and province is handcuffed by regulations specifically in place to avoid conflict of interest but it would seem they don't really think this applies to them. FTR I am not in the anti-Katz briggade but I do find the Katz group is using despicable tactic in this deal. FTR I also want a new downtown arena but if the city is to partner up with Katz both sides should benefit fairly.
You've read into this whole situation so heavily, judging by your tirade of hyperbole, that I can't even be sure that you're speaking of the same person here. Nothing you've said here has any merit and you lose credibility with this kind of stuff.

On one hand you're calling him a criminal akin to a mafia mobster, and then in the same breath claim you aren't "anti-Katz". You can't have your cake and eat it too. And FWIW, nothing Katz has done has ever been "despicable", besides offering a world-class arena district at little to no cost to the taxpayers of Edmonton. Real criminal of him.

I'm quite interested in hearing what you think Katz has done that is so deplorable. Asking the city to split a $12M funding shortfall per year? Using the CRL to leverage the additional $6M for the city, while taking his portion out of pocket? Going 50/50 on any infrastructure costs with the city, including LRT expansion and pedway construction? Contributing $100M, with $30M of that paid up front, to the construction of the arena?

Or are you talking about the trip to Seattle? To scope out a potential buyer for the Oilers should the city remain hostile?

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:30 PM
  #736
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Can anyone tell me why Rexall wasn't built downtown? It seemed kind of odd to me that when I was at the Luxliner bus stop I couldn't just stop by it before leaving.

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12-29-2012, 07:24 PM
  #737
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Can anyone tell me why Rexall wasn't built downtown? It seemed kind of odd to me that when I was at the Luxliner bus stop I couldn't just stop by it before leaving.
It was built to be integrated into the Northlands properties.

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12-29-2012, 11:16 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You've read into this whole situation so heavily, judging by your tirade of hyperbole, that I can't even be sure that you're speaking of the same person here. Nothing you've said here has any merit and you lose credibility with this kind of stuff.

On one hand you're calling him a criminal akin to a mafia mobster, and then in the same breath claim you aren't "anti-Katz". You can't have your cake and eat it too. And FWIW, nothing Katz has done has ever been "despicable", besides offering a world-class arena district at little to no cost to the taxpayers of Edmonton. Real criminal of him.

I'm quite interested in hearing what you think Katz has done that is so deplorable. Asking the city to split a $12M funding shortfall per year? Using the CRL to leverage the additional $6M for the city, while taking his portion out of pocket? Going 50/50 on any infrastructure costs with the city, including LRT expansion and pedway construction? Contributing $100M, with $30M of that paid up front, to the construction of the arena?

Or are you talking about the trip to Seattle? To scope out a potential buyer for the Oilers should the city remain hostile?
No sense even debating this with you. And as for credibility, nice glass house you live in Mr. Pot. Taking Katz at face value and calling it the facts doesn't make you right, it makes you gullible.

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01-01-2013, 03:36 AM
  #739
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It was built to be integrated into the Northlands properties.
Ah yes.

That era when no one thought the city would have to change.

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Old
01-01-2013, 09:28 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You've read into this whole situation so heavily, judging by your tirade of hyperbole, that I can't even be sure that you're speaking of the same person here. Nothing you've said here has any merit and you lose credibility with this kind of stuff.

On one hand you're calling him a criminal akin to a mafia mobster, and then in the same breath claim you aren't "anti-Katz". You can't have your cake and eat it too. And FWIW, nothing Katz has done has ever been "despicable", besides offering a world-class arena district at little to no cost to the taxpayers of Edmonton. Real criminal of him.

I'm quite interested in hearing what you think Katz has done that is so deplorable. Asking the city to split a $12M funding shortfall per year? Using the CRL to leverage the additional $6M for the city, while taking his portion out of pocket? Going 50/50 on any infrastructure costs with the city, including LRT expansion and pedway construction? Contributing $100M, with $30M of that paid up front, to the construction of the arena?

Or are you talking about the trip to Seattle? To scope out a potential buyer for the Oilers should the city remain hostile?
I love your posts. They're so bad, they're funny. Especially coming from someone who doesn't even live here.

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01-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #741
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I love your posts. They're so bad, they're funny. Especially coming from someone who doesn't even live here.
Ad hominem. Nice one.

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01-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #742
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Ad hominem. Nice one.
Oh the irony.

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01-01-2013, 08:05 PM
  #743
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Ad hominem. Nice one.
Lol, pot, meet kettle.

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Old
01-03-2013, 11:39 PM
  #744
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Lottery can pay for Oilers and Flames arenas says WildRose Danielle Smith

Just reading an article regarding a quote from Danielle Smith regarding our lottery system to build arenas in Edmonton and Calgary
“The City of Edmonton would get a magnificent downtown facility, the Edmonton Oilers would get a new home and Alberta taxpayers wouldn’t be on the hook for any of it," Smith told reporters Thursday.

I dont know about you but I think this is ludacris!! Why do we need to build an arena for a billionaire and for spoiled millionaires

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01-03-2013, 11:53 PM
  #745
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Just reading an article regarding a quote from Danielle Smith regarding our lottery system to build arenas in Edmonton and Calgary
“The City of Edmonton would get a magnificent downtown facility, the Edmonton Oilers would get a new home and Alberta taxpayers wouldn’t be on the hook for any of it," Smith told reporters Thursday.

I dont know about you but I think this is ludacris!! Why do we need to build an arena for a billionaire and for spoiled millionaires


No, this is Ludacris.

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01-03-2013, 11:56 PM
  #746
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Just reading an article regarding a quote from Danielle Smith regarding our lottery system to build arenas in Edmonton and Calgary
“The City of Edmonton would get a magnificent downtown facility, the Edmonton Oilers would get a new home and Alberta taxpayers wouldn’t be on the hook for any of it," Smith told reporters Thursday.

I dont know about you but I think this is ludacris!! Why do we need to build an arena for a billionaire and for spoiled millionaires
I'm never voting for you now or in the future,Danielle.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #747
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lol She's been floating that idea for several years now. "Lottery" should be one of her catch phrases.

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01-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #748
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Weird suggestion considering there's no correlation between persons who buy lottery tickets and those who would utilize the arena. Still think a ticket tax is the best way to go about making money for this project.

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01-04-2013, 12:06 AM
  #749
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I agree those monies should be left for the charities and not for millionaires.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 AM
  #750
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They should just Kickstarter this project, lol.

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