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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

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Yes 155 71.43%
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Old
10-29-2012, 09:06 PM
  #251
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Remember when JFJ acquired and filled his post lockout teams with former mostly Top 10 picks in previous drafts?

Eric Lindros - (round 1 #1 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft)
Jason Allison - (round 1 #17 overall 1993 NHL Entry Draft)
Jeff O'Neal - (round 1 #5 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft)
Luke Richardson - (round 1 #7 overall 1987 NHL Entry Draft)
Mark Bell - (round 1 #8 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft)
Boyd Devereaux - (round 1 #6 overall 1996 NHL Entry Draft)
Chad Kilger - (round 1 #4 overall 1995 NHL Entry Draft)

Wow look at all those high picks !!!! No GM had acquired more former 1st rounders during that time 2005-2007.
Good times baby , good times .

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10-29-2012, 09:06 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Nice cop out but pretty much what i'd expect from the supporters .
Ditto. Pretty much what I'd expect from the "realists".

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10-29-2012, 09:08 PM
  #253
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Burke has been a disaster. He holds the record for the worst era in Maple Leaf history. Incomprehensible that he is defended.

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10-29-2012, 09:09 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Remember when JFJ acquired and filled his post lockout teams with former mostly Top 10 picks in previous drafts?

Eric Lindros - (round 1 #1 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft)
Jason Allison - (round 1 #17 overall 1993 NHL Entry Draft)
Jeff O'Neal - (round 1 #5 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft)
Luke Richardson - (round 1 #7 overall 1987 NHL Entry Draft)
Mark Bell - (round 1 #8 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft)
Boyd Devereaux - (round 1 #6 overall 1996 NHL Entry Draft)
Chad Kilger - (round 1 #4 overall 1995 NHL Entry Draft)

Wow look at all those high picks !!!! No GM had acquired more former 1st rounders during that time 2005-2007.

Laugh Out Loud


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10-29-2012, 09:09 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by AmazedRink View Post
Too bad. The people have decided. Burke stays.
75% of our fan base see what is happening and have the patience to follow this through.

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10-29-2012, 09:11 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
A quick comparison of those two playoff teams will show you that one had its main contributions from young prospects of whom several are thought to have better than bottom line potential while the other had one player contributing decently who was thought to have higher than bottom end potential.
Oh... My... God...

One team had 109 regular season points, and higher prospect rankings according to BOTH the Hockey News and HF.

The other had a measly 96 regular season points, and lower prospect ranking according to BOTH the Hockey News and HF.

Of course spin and rhetoric was used. Unsubstantiated nonsense about age of players or something.
It just never ends.

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10-29-2012, 09:12 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
A lot of them will be replaced soon with big and strong but more importantly, there are still holes to address.
So now we're rebuilding the rebuild which rebuilt the original retool ?

Will this be the last rebuild or are there many many more rebuilds to come .


Last edited by hotpaws: 10-29-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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Old
10-29-2012, 09:12 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by SuperJayMann View Post
75% of our fan base see what is happening and have the patience to follow this through.
A similar number of leaf fans supported the disaster of a GM term of JFJ in 2007.
What's your point?

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10-29-2012, 09:14 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Ditto. Pretty much what I'd expect from the "realists".
Ditto ?

You avoided the question and now come up with this ?

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10-29-2012, 09:14 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Remember when JFJ acquired and filled his post lockout teams with former mostly Top 10 picks in previous drafts?

Eric Lindros - (round 1 #1 overall 1991 NHL Entry Draft)
Jason Allison - (round 1 #17 overall 1993 NHL Entry Draft)
Jeff O'Neal - (round 1 #5 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft)
Luke Richardson - (round 1 #7 overall 1987 NHL Entry Draft)
Mark Bell - (round 1 #8 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft)
Boyd Devereaux - (round 1 #6 overall 1996 NHL Entry Draft)
Chad Kilger - (round 1 #4 overall 1995 NHL Entry Draft)

Wow look at all those high picks !!!! No GM had acquired more former 1st rounders during that time 2005-2007.

Once again proving why just tanking and trying to get as many first round picks does not work.

Again, the issue that people have with burke is that he traded first round picks... Not his individual trades and the quality of players he has brought in regardless of draft position. If burke just traded Stempniak, Kaberle, Hagman and blake for random picks and ended up at the bottom, everyone would love the rebuild. Even though, it is highly unlikely that the high first round picks in 4 drafts that Burke picked up would equal

Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, Colborne, Ashton, Biggs, Percy, Kadri, Reilly, JVR.

Thats the point I am making. He is rebuilding the team with a young core that would be much more likely to be better than just tanking for 2009-2012. Just because you stand on a podium and call their name does not make them skate faster or shoot harder.

People who complain about the results are the same people who want to tank, so they wanted to finish bad. They wanted young stars, and burke got them sure things, young stars instead of going into the draft and hoping for the best. It is easy to sit here and think oh well we would have had this player and that player and boom cup. But again the odds that things work out entirely as planned 4 years into the future are pretty rare. Thats why these fans are so frustrating.... Because they act like they know what would have happened, 4 years in the future and compare the leafs to a magical tank team that has never, and now can never possibly exist. They want the leafs to suck they suck and they are mad. They want top quality youth and they get it, but not in the way that their imaginations said it would happen so they throw hissy fits arguing about the same things for years.

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10-29-2012, 09:19 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Once again proving why just tanking and trying to get as many first round picks does not work.

Again, the issue that people have with burke is that he traded first round picks... Not his individual trades and the quality of players he has brought in regardless of draft position. If burke just traded Stempniak, Kaberle, Hagman and blake for random picks and ended up at the bottom, everyone would love the rebuild. Even though, it is highly unlikely that the high first round picks in 4 drafts that Burke picked up would equal

Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, Colborne, Ashton, Biggs, Percy, Kadri, Reilly, JVR.

Thats the point I am making. He is rebuilding the team with a young core that would be much more likely to be better than just tanking for 2009-2012. Just because you stand on a podium and call their name does not make them skate faster or shoot harder.

People who complain about the results are the same people who want to tank, so they wanted to finish bad. They wanted young stars, and burke got them sure things, young stars instead of going into the draft and hoping for the best. It is easy to sit here and think oh well we would have had this player and that player and boom cup. But again the odds that things work out entirely as planned 4 years into the future are pretty rare. Thats why these fans are so frustrating.... Because they act like they know what would have happened, 4 years in the future and compare the leafs to a magical tank team that has never, and now can never possibly exist. They want the leafs to suck they suck and they are mad. They want top quality youth and they get it, but not in the way that their imaginations said it would happen so they throw hissy fits arguing about the same things for years.
good post sir.

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:20 PM
  #262
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I readily admit I hold Burke to a higher standard than I do JFj.

If I hire an experienced employee, paid at the top of the pay scale, I expect better results than an employee with no experience paid an entry level salary.

I realize this is not debatable.

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10-29-2012, 09:21 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Ditto ?

You avoided the question and now come up with this ?
The two arguments that they've desperately been clinging to have just been destroyed (adding 1st round picks, success of Marlies).

What do you expect him to do?
Just accept the facts?

Because we both know that's not going to happen...

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10-29-2012, 09:26 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The two arguments that they've desperately been clinging to have just been destroyed (adding 1st round picks, success of Marlies).

What do you expect him to do?
Just accept the facts?

Because we both know that's not going to happen...
I think you should try reading that again....

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10-29-2012, 09:27 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Once again proving why just tanking and trying to get as many first round picks does not work.

Again, the issue that people have with burke is that he traded first round picks... Not his individual trades and the quality of players he has brought in regardless of draft position. If burke just traded Stempniak, Kaberle, Hagman and blake for random picks and ended up at the bottom, everyone would love the rebuild. Even though, it is highly unlikely that the high first round picks in 4 drafts that Burke picked up would equal

Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, Colborne, Ashton, Biggs, Percy, Kadri, Reilly, JVR.

Thats the point I am making. He is rebuilding the team with a young core that would be much more likely to be better than just tanking for 2009-2012. Just because you stand on a podium and call their name does not make them skate faster or shoot harder.

People who complain about the results are the same people who want to tank, so they wanted to finish bad. They wanted young stars, and burke got them sure things, young stars instead of going into the draft and hoping for the best. It is easy to sit here and think oh well we would have had this player and that player and boom cup. But again the odds that things work out entirely as planned 4 years into the future are pretty rare. Thats why these fans are so frustrating.... Because they act like they know what would have happened, 4 years in the future and compare the leafs to a magical tank team that has never, and now can never possibly exist. They want the leafs to suck they suck and they are mad. They want top quality youth and they get it, but not in the way that their imaginations said it would happen so they throw hissy fits arguing about the same things for years.
After 7 years out of the playoffs (and especially after 4 bottom 10 under Burke), I expect this team to either be;
a) full of elite prospects
b) a competent team

We are neither.
We have a few star players int their primes who don't seem to help us in the standings.
And we have a few good prospects who may pan out into decent nhl players.

In our future, I don't see Cup contention. Let's be honest... do you?
I see mediocrity.

After four bottom 10 finishes (7 years out of the playoffs), I would have hoped to see a MUCH brighter future.

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10-29-2012, 09:30 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
When we traded for Kessel he was coming off 42 goals in 81 GP.
by this logic Daniel Sedin is a 50 goal scorer lol.

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:36 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
After 7 years out of the playoffs (and especially after 4 bottom 10 under Burke), I expect this team to either be;
a) full of elite prospects
b) a competent team

We are neither.
We have a few star players int their primes who don't seem to help us in the standings.
And we have a few good prospects who may pan out into decent nhl players.

In our future, I don't see Cup contention. Let's be honest... do you?
I see mediocrity.

After four bottom 10 finishes (7 years out of the playoffs), I would have hoped to see a MUCH brighter future.
Ok so from 2009-2012, which team has added more young talent.

Edmonton... probably... other than that, who?

1.) 24 year old all star 4x30g olympian who was a 6th in league scoring after an injury.
2.) a 26 year old all star who is a top pairing d and former norris finalist.
3.) a 28 year old all star who was top 10 in scoring before an injury.
4.) a 21 year old NHL all rookie team defenseman.
5.) a 23 year old 2nd overall pick who has dominated in the playoffs already.

Not to mention prospects like reilly, biggs Ashton, Colborne, Kadri, Percy. Reilly looks like a blue chip D, and even if 2 of the other turn out to be servicable NHL players, that is an unbelievable haul.....

Bottom line is, if burke tanked the last 4 years, do you think he would have a better group of young talent now????

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10-29-2012, 09:41 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
After 7 years out of the playoffs (and especially after 4 bottom 10 under Burke), I expect this team to either be;
a) full of elite prospects
b) a competent team
You should switch your name from "Disgruntled Observer" to "Unrealistic Expectations." Not quite as pithy, I know. But a team full of elite prospects in 4 years? Christ. *NHL 13 joke goes here*

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10-29-2012, 09:46 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Ok so from 2009-2012, which team has added more young talent.

Edmonton... probably... other than that, who?

1.) 24 year old all star 4x30g olympian who was a 6th in league scoring after an injury.
2.) a 26 year old all star who is a top pairing d and former norris finalist.
3.) a 28 year old all star who was top 10 in scoring before an injury.
4.) a 21 year old NHL all rookie team defenseman.
5.) a 23 year old 2nd overall pick who has dominated in the playoffs already.

Not to mention prospects like reilly, biggs Ashton, Colborne, Kadri, Percy. Reilly looks like a blue chip D, and even if 2 of the other turn out to be servicable NHL players, that is an unbelievable haul.....

Bottom line is, if burke tanked the last 4 years, do you think he would have a better group of young talent now????
You're looking at the team with blue and white coloured glasses.

For example, you look at Phaneuf and say "a 26 year old all star who is a top pairing d and former norris finalist."
But the rest of the league would say "A dramatically overpaid defenseman whose Norris years are far behind him".

You look at Lupul and say "a 28 year old all star who was top 10 in scoring before an injury."
But the rest of the league would say "A player who seemed to find chemistry with Kessel last season, but has proven over and over again to be inconsistent and injury prone".
etc.
Once you look at every player on the team with that bias, of course the team looks pretty good (never mind finishing 5th last in the standings)

If fans of every team looked at their players with such bias, everybody would think that their GM is a genius and should be extended.

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10-29-2012, 09:47 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
You should switch your name from "Disgruntled Observer" to "Unrealistic Expectations." Not quite as pithy, I know. But a team full of elite prospects in 4 years? Christ. *NHL 13 joke goes here*
Edmonton did it.
And their GM doesn't make as much money as ours...
Or spend as much on scouting, or as much on their front office.

After four years of bottom 10 finishes, we just finished LOWER in the standings than when Burke arrived.
Our prospects are rated LOWER now by BOTH the Hockey News and HF.
You're really ok with that?
It's not my expectations that are the problem...

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10-29-2012, 09:48 PM
  #271
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Don't the other 29 teams have to deal with injury? I wouldn't say there is a huge difference from 4 years ago yet, atleast not in the standings. Sure we might have more potential than 4 years ago, but until it translate to winning it's just meaningless potential.
I love these posts. Yes the other 29 teams did have injuries, did have setbacks, did have players, prospects, an arena, some even had fans. Feel better?

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10-29-2012, 09:49 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Edmonton did it.
And their GM doesn't make as much money as ours...
Or spend as much on scouting, or as much on their front office.
Edmonton won the lottery or tanked their way to a 1st overall selection three years in a row. Not quite the best comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledObserver
Our prospects are rated LOWER now by BOTH the Hockey News and HF.
You're really ok with that?
It's not my expectations that are the problem...
Ermahgerd two unofficial hockey sites on the Internet rated our prospects lower ahhhh. I forgot that HF and THN are the ones that go in and edit players' attributes with their divine powers that dictate which players make it and which don't oops my bad I forget things sometimes.

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10-29-2012, 09:49 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
You should switch your name from "Disgruntled Observer" to "Unrealistic Expectations." Not quite as pithy, I know. But a team full of elite prospects in 4 years? Christ. *NHL 13 joke goes here*
Where were you guys when Burke was yapping non stop about how he could build a contending team in under 5 years ? Oh wait i just remembered you were right behind him backing him up all the way and attacking anyone who dared say he couldn't do it .

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10-29-2012, 09:50 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Ok so from 2009-2012, which team has added more young talent.

Edmonton... probably... other than that, who?

1.) 24 year old all star 4x30g olympian who was a 6th in league scoring after an injury.
2.) a 26 year old all star who is a top pairing d and former norris finalist.
3.) a 28 year old all star who was top 10 in scoring before an injury.
4.) a 21 year old NHL all rookie team defenseman.
5.) a 23 year old 2nd overall pick who has dominated in the playoffs already.

Not to mention prospects like reilly, biggs Ashton, Colborne, Kadri, Percy. Reilly looks like a blue chip D, and even if 2 of the other turn out to be servicable NHL players, that is an unbelievable haul.....

Bottom line is, if burke tanked the last 4 years, do you think he would have a better group of young talent now????
Really difficult to say, but I think Colorado has done pretty good adding these players.

Duchene, O'Reilly, Elliott, Barrie, Landeskog, Downie, Johnson, McGinn, Varlamov, Olver in that timeframe.

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10-29-2012, 09:51 PM
  #275
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Edmonton won the lottery or tanked their way to a 1st overall selection three years in a row. Not quite the best comparison.
Why?
We were bottom 10 four years in a row... while trying to win!!!! and now don't have as bright of a future as them.

That's WAY more embarrassing...

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