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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

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Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
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Old
10-29-2012, 10:58 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by keonsbitterness View Post
If Burke gets well into his final year (2013-14), I bet he'll get an extension. Most teams in today's hockey world prefer not to have a lame-duck G.M.

However, the lockout could change that scenario. Everyone and his mother has been speculating that the Leafs have to make the playoffs for Burke to keep his job. But if there is no 12-13 season, MLSE has a decision to make -- either fire Burke, give him an extension, or, because it's an unusual circumstance, keep him on as a lame-duck G.M.
We also have to remember than an extension means absolutely nothing really.
Burke could in theory be fired at any time.

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10-29-2012, 10:59 PM
  #327
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I didn't realize they all played on the same team .
Fantastic.....

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10-29-2012, 11:00 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by diceman934
Some of the players listed would not be drafted until much later in the draft was to occur again....So are we going to build a Stanley Cup Winner using others cast offs?


Agreed, anyone who's ever been traded in the history of the NHL sux.

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10-29-2012, 11:00 PM
  #329
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If only we had received anything in that deal that could haunt Boston for the next ten years, hmmm...
After there cup win i don't his loss haunts them much .

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10-29-2012, 11:01 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
We also have to remember than an extension means absolutely nothing really.
Burke could in theory be fired at any time.
This. MLSE will likely give Burke an extension just to keep his head in it (not that I see Burke as the type of guy to just give up)

I am curious to see who everyone would want as the next GM if not Burke? Other then Nonis

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Old
10-29-2012, 11:01 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
I would call him the guy that just finished 6th in league scoring at 24.
I'm sure.

Now let's hear your "unbiased" opinions about the Seguin/Hamilton tandem.

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10-29-2012, 11:01 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
It is much less flawed as it allows for the other trades to happen as they did not involve trading away first round picks.

You can not pose an argument that trading for Kessel allows us to make other trades, and then in the same breath not consider that the same addition trades would not have happened. The real issue is that you can not delete some trades that were not part of the one trade to some how support that we got the better end of the Kessel trade.
Except if we are tanking, we may not sign Beauchemin, hence no Gardiner.

Again, it's still flawed.

Everyone tries to cherry pick the pieces that work best for them.

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10-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
After there cup win i don't his loss haunts them much .
Still many years to go. Well, maybe if we ever get hockey back.

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10-29-2012, 11:05 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I'm sure.

Now let's hear your "unbiased" opinions about the Seguin/Hamilton tandem.
I love Seguin. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about how he'd translate to the NHL. I think he will be an excellent NHL player. I still think Kessel will be better. Still not sold on Hamilton. He's good, but not franchise player good. I much prefer Rielly, even Gardiner.

Now do share your unbiased opinion of Bozak.... What was it again?

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10-29-2012, 11:05 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I don't believe you.

If Kessel was on any other team, you would call him the same as the entire rest of the league calls him.
A 1 dimensional lazy forward with a questionable attitude.
He is not on any other team.

I actually get to watch him play.

I see that he is as gifted a playmaker as he is a goalscorer. I have seen his defensive game improve.

OH and I understand he is only 24 and had 4 30G seasons under his belt.

Have you seen him play?

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10-29-2012, 11:06 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Except if we are tanking, we may not sign Beauchemin, hence no Gardiner.

Again, it's still flawed.

Everyone tries to cherry pick the pieces that work best for them.
How about you just look at the end result after four years of bottom 10 finishes?
5th last.

If, for four years, Burke threw everything into winning right away, we'd at least be making the playoffs by now.
If, for four years, Burke threw everything into a proper rebuild, we'd have MUCH better prospects by now.

He tried the "somewhere in the middle" approach, and it left us underwhelming from top to bottom.

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10-29-2012, 11:07 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
I love Seguin. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about how he'd translate to the NHL. I think he will be an excellent NHL player. I still think Kessel will be better. Still not sold on Hamilton. He's good, but not franchise player good. I much prefer Rielly, even Gardiner.

Now do share your unbiased opinion of Bozak.... What was it again?
This. Hamilton would be nice, but it's not a given that he will be that good of a player still.

Knight will be a 3rd liner at most, easily replaceable and a non factor.

This comes down to a play making center, or an elite sniper.

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Old
10-29-2012, 11:08 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
How about you just look at the end result after four years of bottom 10 finishes?
5th last.

If, for four years, Burke threw everything into winning right away, we'd at least be making the playoffs by now.
If, for four years, Burke threw everything into a proper rebuild, we'd have MUCH better prospects by now.

He tried the "somewhere in the middle" approach, and it left us underwhelming from top to bottom.
Sure, based on that were miles ahead of Edmonton. I'm excited we're so far ahead of them. Based strictly on results of course.

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10-29-2012, 11:10 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
I love Seguin. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about how he'd translate to the NHL. I think he will be an excellent NHL player. I still think Kessel will be better. Still not sold on Hamilton. He's good, but not franchise player good. I much prefer Rielly, even Gardiner.

Now do share your unbiased opinion of Bozak.... What was it again?
The leafs could easily have Seguin, Hamilton, Rielly, and Gardiner.
Instead we just have Mr. One dimensional, Reilly, and Gardiner.

Bozak is an ahl player currently on a team devoid of depth.
Playing first line minutes, 1st line power play time, with 1st line players, he scored under 20 goals.
Probably the worst player in the entire nhl to play on a 1st line.

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10-29-2012, 11:10 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Sure, based on that were miles ahead of Edmonton. I'm excited we're so far ahead of them. Based strictly on results of course.
Burke could find the cure to cancer and people would still ask why he hasn't created world peace yet.....

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10-29-2012, 11:11 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Sure, based on that were miles ahead of Edmonton. I'm excited we're so far ahead of them. Based strictly on results of course.
I'd rather have ELITE young talent than be underwhelming from top to bottom. Anybody would. Except leaf fans of course...

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10-29-2012, 11:12 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The leafs could easily have Seguin, Hamilton, Rielly, and Gardiner.
Instead we just have Mr. One dimensional, Reilly, and Gardiner.

Bozak is an ahl player currently on a team devoid of depth.
Playing first line minutes, 1st line power play time, with 1st line players, he scored under 20 goals.
Probably the worst player in the entire nhl to play on a 1st line.
If Burke doesn't plan on making the Kessel deal, we don't sign Beauchemin. Thus, no Gardiner. Also, no guarentee we have Rielly either.

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10-29-2012, 11:12 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I'd rather have ELITE young talent than be underwhelming from top to bottom. Anybody would. Except leaf fans of course...
Yes, thats exactly what he meant

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10-29-2012, 11:13 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
This. Hamilton would be nice, but it's not a given that he will be that good of a player still.

Knight will be a 3rd liner at most, easily replaceable and a non factor.

This comes down to a play making center, or an elite sniper.
If Burke had drafted the highest rated defensive prospect in the entire world last year, we would hear about it everyday. Every minute. Every second.
It would be spammed so often that it would be stickied. Not just in the leafs forum, but in EVERY forum.

But because another team drafted him WITH OUR ****ING PICK, it's just "He might not be a good player".

It's so obnoxious.

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10-29-2012, 11:13 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
um no when we traded for kessel he was a 60pt 30g winger with the opportunity to improve, which is what the 2 guys I post are... he was not a franchise center putting up 80 pts... and Kessel is not a franchise player.
I Seem to remember talk of Kessel going #1 in that draft. Ahead of Backstrom, Toews and Staal.

Tavares has had a 30g scoring winger the last 3 years. What has Kessel had?

Kessel has the skills to build around.

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10-29-2012, 11:14 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
We also have to remember than an extension means absolutely nothing really.
Burke could in theory be fired at any time.
Sure, Burke can be fired at any time, but a long-term extension, for example, would greatly decrease that likelihood.

An extension can mean a commitment by ownership, or it can mean what amounts to severance pay if things don't work out.

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10-29-2012, 11:17 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If Burke had drafted the highest rated defensive prospect in the entire world last year, we would hear about it everyday. Every minute. Every second.
It would be spammed so often that it would be stickied. Not just in the leafs forum, but in EVERY forum.

But because another team drafted him WITH OUR ****ING PICK, it's just "He might not be a good player".

It's so obnoxious.
And yet you fail to see how your argument is 100% correct in the opposite view.

If Hamilton were a Leafs Prospect he would be crap. It would also be plastered everywhere. Comparisons to 3rd pairing D-men arouind hte league would choke the main boards.

You need to get past this kind of thinking to have a serious debate.

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10-29-2012, 11:17 PM
  #348
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If Burke doesn't plan on making the Kessel deal, we don't sign Beauchemin. Thus, no Gardiner. Also, no guarentee we have Rielly either.
What a desperate and frustrating stance you're taking.

Everything good Burke has done is a "direct result of the Kessel trade".
It's just amazing that people can delude themselves into thinking that.

It's like they think if the Kessel trade didn't happen, NO other trades/signings would have happened.

"I'd prefer Kessel with Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, and Reilly than Seguin, Hamilton and NO ONE ELSE".
Other trades/signings would OF COURSE have happened. Some great, some terrible.

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10-29-2012, 11:19 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And yet you fail to see how your argument is 100% correct in the opposite view.

If Hamilton were a Leafs Prospect he would be crap. It would also be plastered everywhere. Comparisons to 3rd pairing D-men arouind hte league would choke the main boards.

You need to get past this kind of thinking to have a serious debate.
I don't see very VERY few people doing that with Reilly. Calling him a 3rd pairing d-man? Obscene.

When Burke does good things, we support him. It's just that he RARELY does good things, so it makes us seem always against him.

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10-29-2012, 11:20 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Except if we are tanking, we may not sign Beauchemin, hence no Gardiner.

Again, it's still flawed.

Everyone tries to cherry pick the pieces that work best for them.
I was not the individual who tried to slant the Kessel deal with other names....yet I'm the one you replied to.

I simply point out that the other players not involved in the Kessel trade can not be used to tip the balance to justify the trade.

You go ahead and defend that!

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