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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:43 PM
  #876
Bullsmith
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Burke deserves full credit for the moves he made in Anaheim. It's true that he was handed a franchise headed in the right direction, but he brought in hall of famers to put them over the top. He also deserves credit for things he did to build a winner in Vancouver. The Sundin draft was a heck of a piece of GMing. The guy can win trades at the highest level, be it for vets or picks.

By the same token, he has to be accountable too. He didn't leave Anaheim in great shape, frankly, and there is simply no way he can be happy with the results he's gotten so far in Toronto. Whether he should be fired or given more time is, IMO, very debatable. Whether he's had a successful run in TO so far isn't. He hasn't.

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11-03-2012, 10:46 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
We're not saying the same thing. You're claiming Selanne would only go to Anaheim. No. He wasn't ready to end his career. He could very well have ended-up somewhere else. You're forgetting how Teemu's career was in the toilet in 05'. Everyone thought he was done.

It wasn't the easy slam-dunk many believe it was today.
IF you can find me one article that says Teemu had anywhere but Anahiem on top of his list please post it.

That was the only place he was going to play in the NHL as far as I remember.

I know Teemu has said the best thing for his carreer was the lockout, which gave his knee time to fully recover.

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11-03-2012, 10:49 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
There isn't an argument anymore and polls like this shouldn't exist.

Factually, Burke has been flat out terrible and should be replaced. That is not an "opinion". That's a reasoned conclusion based entirely on facts.

Those that ignore facts and choose to believe what they want to believe (and not what has been proven as correct) are the only ones that will vote yes.

If somebody can look at the facts and conclude that Burke has done a good job, well, they've used spin. They've manipulated facts and reason to create an alternate reality.
So somebody that supports Burke does not interpret facts differently. They simply relied on spin instead of facts. That is a delusion, not an opinion.

In conclusion, there is no differing opinions about Burke.
There's those that factually agree that he's been a disaster.
And there's those who have created a delusional world based on spin and rhetoric.

Now that I've clarified the entire situation beyond rebuttal or argument, I don't believe threads like this need to exist anymore.
Remember... I have not offered my mere opinion here. I have offered a reasoned conclusion after careful examination of factual evidence.
Burke is like Obama. Walked into a horrific situation and got told to fix it, and fix it now and fast! Both added depth and made changes. Then both got habitually blamed for situations for which they hadn't a big enough, or real enough hand in. Both did their best given their circumstances. Do I think others can/could do much better? I think not.

-Obama got a crappy economic situation

-Burke got a a crappy player situation.

Though both made adjustments. We as fans or consitutents think 'it's never good enough, it's not fast enough!!' all while we chant victory now and immediate results. Not feasible. I think 5 or 10 years from now it's plausible some other President or GM will widely be praised but it takes ground builders to build the building and by that measure, Burke isn't a failure. For which they'll never receive fair, just and due treatment.

I say, Burke gets +4 years and so does Obama given all things considered.

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11-03-2012, 10:51 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
IF you can find me one article that says Teemu had anywhere but Anahiem on top of his list please post it.

That was the only place he was going to play in the NHL as far as I remember.

I know Teemu has said the best thing for his carreer was the lockout, which gave his knee time to fully recover.
Teemu was not going to retire if Anaheim didn't offer him aontract. Teams did not value him like they do today. Signing him wasome slam-dunk

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11-03-2012, 10:52 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Beauchemin wasn't even on the radar to make the lineup in CBJ.

It was a true fluke he managed to achieve the potential ANH's scouts put on him.
So? That was a team managed by Doug Maclean. You think they knew what they were doing? Beauchemin clearly should have been on their radar, but they bungled their talent yet again.

Saying anything like that in regards to a Maclean managed Blue Jackets team means nothing.


Last edited by RogerRoeper*: 11-03-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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11-03-2012, 10:55 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Burke deserves full credit for the moves he made in Anaheim. It's true that he was handed a franchise headed in the right direction, but he brought in hall of famers to put them over the top. He also deserves credit for things he did to build a winner in Vancouver. The Sundin draft was a heck of a piece of GMing. The guy can win trades at the highest level, be it for vets or picks.

By the same token, he has to be accountable too. He didn't leave Anaheim in great shape, frankly, and there is simply no way he can be happy with the results he's gotten so far in Toronto. Whether he should be fired or given more time is, IMO, very debatable. Whether he's had a successful run in TO so far isn't. He hasn't.
I agree. HE is a master of trades.

THe Pronger deal was a home run, ANH doesn't win the cup without him, but it's a far cry from BUrke building the team.

I think he has done enough here in TOR to warrant an immediate extension. If he can keep turning Stajan and White's into Phaneuf's I want to keep him around.

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11-03-2012, 10:56 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Teemu was not going to retire if Anaheim didn't offer him aontract. Teams did not value him like they do today. Signing him wasome slam-dunk
I agree he wasn't going to retiure. He was going to Sign in Europe if he didn't sign in ANH.

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11-03-2012, 10:57 PM
  #883
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Burke inherited a 76 point non-playoff team in Anaheim with a terrible roster. Just because it contained a couple of great prospects doesn't mean he should get less credit for that cup win.
No one takes credit away from any other GM who won a cup because they inherited some great prospects/players.

When Yzerman took over Tampa I never heard people knocking his success because he took over a team with Stamkos, Hedman, St-Louis and Lecavalier. Everyone was kissing his ass.

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11-03-2012, 11:02 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So? That was a team managed by Doug Maclean. You think they knew what they were doing? Beauchemin clearly should have been on their radar, but they bungled their talent yet again.
Fedorov was no more than a salary dump.

Quote:
The Mighty Ducks will gain much-needed room under the new NHL salary cap.

"We had set aside a reserve of around a million and a half dollars to deal with injuries, and it was inadequate to do for that purpose. So it solves that problem. It also gives us cap room to add a player," Anaheim executive vice president and general manager Brian Burke said.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2225316

2 assists in 11 games as a 25yr old rookie. Beauchemin was a homerun off a shot in the dark.

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11-03-2012, 11:04 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Fedorov was no more than a salary dump.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2225316

2 assists in 11 games as a 25yr old rookie. Beauchemin was a homerun off a shot in the dark.
Agreed, but you have to find a taker for him. That contract was so massive in a 38 million cap world. I don't think there's anyone who would claim it wasn't a salary dump. I never meant he specifically traded for Beauchemin.



And what does offensive numbers mean for Beauchemin exactly?

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11-03-2012, 11:06 PM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Burke inherited a 76 point non-playoff team in Anaheim with a terrible roster. Just because it contained a couple of great prospects doesn't mean he should get less credit for that cup win.
No one takes credit away from any other GM who won a cup because they inherited some great prospects/players.

When Yzerman took over Tampa I never heard people knocking his success because he took over a team with Stamkos, Hedman, St-Louis and Lecavalier. Everyone was kissing his ass.
Totally different scenarios.

Not taking credit away , well ok maybe I am. He didn't build the freaking team.

He came in and made a couple of great moves and the team had all the right pieces to win the cup.

Far cry from what he did in VAN or what he has done so far in TOR.

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11-03-2012, 11:10 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Agreed, but you have to find a taker for him. That contract was so massive in a 38 million cap world. I don't think there's anyone who would claim it wasn't a salary dump. I never meant he specifically traded for Beauchemin.



And what does offensive numbers mean for Beauchemin exactly?
They mean he had little enough value that he was part of a deal that saw you take on 6M in salary.

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11-03-2012, 11:29 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Has Burke got the team into the playoffs?

I've said he gets his 6 years and he either gets it done or he should be gone.

I don't expect him to get the team to the SCF by his 6th. year, but they should be competitive by then.

I was't aware this season was completed? Are you already saying Burke has failed this season whether they play or not?
You discounted the lockout for Pittsburgh, but said it matters for Toronto and Burke should be out right now making deals even though that is impossible.

If you think he should get 6 years, then wait until 6 years have passed before bad-mouthing him.

Even though 6 years is stupid, because you are comparing our rebuild to that of a 100% perfect, everything goes right rebuild that is completely unmatchable despite the GM we have or what he does.

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11-03-2012, 11:37 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Give me a goalie who wins ....over a goalie who has a great save percentage but can not close the door when needed to.

Wins and losses are included in all the stats of goalies....before GGA and save percentage for a reason.....they are more meaningful.

There is no variables in wins....you either win or you don't.
So you like Fleury better than Lundqvist?
Smith better than Quick?
Niemi better than Miller?
Anderson better than Ward?
Crawford better than Price?
Varlamov better than Elliot?
Garon better than Schneider?
Dubnyk better than Backstrom?

Etc.

And did you seriously just say that wins are first in the stat column so they mean more? You must be joking. You know, GP comes before even that. Must mean games played is the best indicator of the best goalies, right?

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11-03-2012, 11:42 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
He did make some good moves in ANH but it wasn't like he built the team from scratch.

If he had been kept in VAN then he could say he totally built that team.

Just like if we keep him here he will be able to say he built this team.

But ANH had far too many pieces in place before he stepped in to say that was his build. Sure he finished it off but he didn't lay the foundation.
No team has ever won solely because of one GM.

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11-03-2012, 11:49 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
So you like Fleury better than Lundqvist?
Smith better than Quick?
Niemi better than Miller?
Anderson better than Ward?
Crawford better than Price?
Varlamov better than Elliot?
Garon better than Schneider?
Dubnyk better than Backstrom?

Etc.

And did you seriously just say that wins are first in the stat column so they mean more? You must be joking. You know, GP comes before even that. Must mean games played is the best indicator of the best goalies, right?
I would have no problem giving up a 2nd for Backstrom right now.
Sure he is fragile but a 2nd for 2-3 years of 50gp all-star Goaltending, I'll go for it.

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11-03-2012, 11:55 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
So you like Fleury better than Lundqvist?
Smith better than Quick?
Niemi better than Miller?
Anderson better than Ward?
Crawford better than Price?
Varlamov better than Elliot?
Garon better than Schneider?
Dubnyk better than Backstrom?

Etc.

And did you seriously just say that wins are first in the stat column so they mean more? You must be joking. You know, GP comes before even that. Must mean games played is the best indicator of the best goalies, right?

You are desperate.....

Wins are more important then GGA and Save percentages.

What do Fluery, Ward and Quick all have in common? Rings.......as a results of wins!

Now go and do more research......

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11-03-2012, 11:57 PM
  #893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
There isn't an argument anymore and polls like this shouldn't exist.

Factually, Burke has been flat out terrible and should be replaced. That is not an "opinion". That's a reasoned conclusion based entirely on facts.

Those that ignore facts and choose to believe what they want to believe (and not what has been proven as correct) are the only ones that will vote yes.

If somebody can look at the facts and conclude that Burke has done a good job, well, they've used spin. They've manipulated facts and reason to create an alternate reality.
So somebody that supports Burke does not interpret facts differently. They simply relied on spin instead of facts. That is a delusion, not an opinion.

In conclusion, there is no differing opinions about Burke.
There's those that factually agree that he's been a disaster.
And there's those who have created a delusional world based on spin and rhetoric.

Now that I've clarified the entire situation beyond rebuttal or argument, I don't believe threads like this need to exist anymore.
Remember... I have not offered my mere opinion here. I have offered a reasoned conclusion after careful examination of factual evidence.


close the thread, this post is pure win.

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11-04-2012, 12:06 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
No team has ever won solely because of one GM.
You best do some research......Sam Pollock, and Conn Smythe

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11-04-2012, 12:22 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post


close the thread, this post is pure win.
Well it gets my vote for Post that proves medication and/or observation is needed.

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11-04-2012, 12:28 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You best do some research......Sam Pollock, and Conn Smythe
And Ken Holland and Capt'n Lou, there is something to be said for stability in a teams management.

ALL THE MORE REASON TO EXTEND BURKE, NOW!

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11-04-2012, 12:41 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You are desperate.....

Wins are more important then GGA and Save percentages.

What do Fluery, Ward and Quick all have in common? Rings.......as a results of wins!

Now go and do more research......
I can't even... Please stay away from statistics. You're bumming me the math out.

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11-04-2012, 12:42 AM
  #898
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And Ken Holland and Capt'n Lou, there is something to be said for stability in a teams management.

ALL THE MORE REASON TO EXTEND BURKE, NOW!
Thanks for the names......showing my age!

Stability is great, but results are needed before you extend a GM.....thus far he has not done anything that would lead me to believe that the time to extend him is now. He has two more years on his contract.

I must admit that the new ownership has reigned in Burke's rants and that is a good thing. Let see what this season brings before tossing out an extension.

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11-04-2012, 12:45 AM
  #899
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I can't even... Please stay away from statistics. You're bumming me the math out.
What are you talking about....? Never mind with a post like that it matters little to me!

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11-04-2012, 12:46 AM
  #900
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Thanks for the names......showing my age!

Stability is great, but results are needed before you extend a GM.....thus far he has not done anything that would lead me to believe that the time to extend him is now. He has two more years on his contract.

I must admit that the new ownership has reigned in Burke's rants and that is a good thing. Let see what this season brings before tossing out an extension.
So you are willing to give time to some GM's but not BUrke?

How Hypocritical is that?

Pathetic the depths the anti-Burke faction are willing to go.

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