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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

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Yes 155 71.43%
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Old
11-04-2012, 12:48 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
So you are willing to give time to some GM's but not BUrke?

How Hypocritical is that?

Pathetic the depths the anti-Burke faction are willing to go.
Reading before posting should be a requirement....

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11-04-2012, 12:54 AM
  #902
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Reading before posting should be a requirement....
I suggest you take full advantage of that.

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11-04-2012, 03:11 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You are desperate.....

Wins are more important then GGA and Save percentages.

What do Fluery, Ward and Quick all have in common? Rings.......as a results of wins!

Now go and do more research......
Goalies like Thomas, Ward and Quick earned their rings. Pretty much any NHL goalie (and some AHL goalies) would have been able to do what Fleury did for his ring. Fleury's very average, and was merely fortunate to be drafted by a team with two of the world's best players.

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11-04-2012, 08:29 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Welcome to the CAP ERA where being a rich team is meaningless.
Ask Finger and Reddon if being rich is meaningless.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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11-04-2012, 08:40 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post


close the thread, this post is pure win.
+1...DO is one honest dude. Respect.

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11-04-2012, 08:46 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Totally different scenarios.

Not taking credit away , well ok maybe I am. He didn't build the freaking team.

He came in and made a couple of great moves and the team had all the right pieces to win the cup.

Far cry from what he did in VAN or what he has done so far in TOR.
He didn't have the right pieces though. He added so many.

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11-04-2012, 08:52 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Ask Finger and Reddon if being rich is meaningless.
It's pretty meaningless. Other than the Rangers, there are hardly any teams who bury contracts just for the sake of getting it off the cap. Having the option to send a sucky player to the minors is nice, but in the case of Finger, having him play as #7D, getting 40 starts in a season wouldn't have made much difference in where the Leafs finished.

Being able to spend on your front office is by far more useful for teams than burying a mill or two in the minors.

Yes, there are some benefits to not having to count your pennies, but nowhere near as much as the "richest team in the league" crowd would have you believe.

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11-04-2012, 09:39 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I agree. HE is a master of trades.

THe Pronger deal was a home run, ANH doesn't win the cup without him, but it's a far cry from BUrke building the team.

I think he has done enough here in TOR to warrant an immediate extension. If he can keep turning Stajan and White's into Phaneuf's I want to keep him around.
I agree that he didn't build the foundation and he was left with some great peices, but he did more than just put finishing touches on the team.

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11-04-2012, 10:06 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
It's pretty meaningless. Other than the Rangers, there are hardly any teams who bury contracts just for the sake of getting it off the cap. Having the option to send a sucky player to the minors is nice, but in the case of Finger, having him play as #7D, getting 40 starts in a season wouldn't have made much difference in where the Leafs finished.

Being able to spend on your front office is by far more useful for teams than burying a mill or two in the minors.

Yes, there are some benefits to not having to count your pennies, but nowhere near as much as the "richest team in the league" crowd would have you believe.
Cap definitely changed things.

Leafs cannot spend to correct their mistakes anymore that's why they're still at the bottom of the league.

Rangers OTOH added Gaborik and Richards with just cash and have a cap hit less than 60 million. (with Gaborik, Richards and Nash under contract)

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11-04-2012, 10:09 AM
  #910
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I was just on capgeek and I took a look at how much space we are gonna have next year.....I say keep the guy because he is a good chess player

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11-04-2012, 10:12 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Dougie Gilmour View Post
I was just on capgeek and I took a look at how much space we are gonna have next year.....I say keep the guy because he is a good chess player
Lots of teams have a fair amount of cap space next year.

Leafs are fine, but not exceptional.

I believe some teams made signings after this chart, example Doan, et cetera.

If someone wants to update that would be appreciated. Looking at one team without knowing what other teams have doesn't paint much of a picture.

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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Where the teams sit.

Contracts are the number of players under contract next year.
Listed: Alphabetically, by number of contracts, and by Cap space.

TeamContractsCap Space MillionsTeamContractsCap SpaceTeamContractsCap Space
Anaheim1141Winnipeg842Dallas1342
Boston1329Phoenix942Phoenix942
Buffalo1323Nashville1030Winnipeg842
Calgary1422Washington1033Anaheim1141
Carolina1420Anaheim1141NY Islanders1140
Chicago1713NY Islanders1140New Jersey1338
Colorado1921St. Louis1238St. Louis1238
Columbus1427Toronto1229Washington1033
Dallas1342Vancouver1219Ottawa1331
Detroit1329Boston1329Nashville1030
Edmonton1422Buffalo1323Boston1329
Florida1328Dallas1342Detroit1329
Los Angeles1321Detroit1329Toronto1229
Minnesota1619Florida1328Florida1328
Montreal1610Los Angeles1321Columbus1427
Nashville1030New Jersey1338Buffalo1323
New Jersey1338Ottawa1331Calgary1422
NY Islanders1140Calgary1422Edmonton1422
NY Rangers1618Carolina1420Colorado1921
Ottawa1331Columbus1427Los Angeles1321
Philadelphia1613Edmonton1422Carolina1420
Phoenix942San Jose1416Minnesota1619
Pittsburgh1518Pittsburgh1518Vancouver1219
San Jose1416Tampa1513NY Rangers1618
St. Louis1238Minnesota1619Pittsburgh1518
Tampa1513Montreal1610San Jose1416
Toronto1229NY Rangers1618Chicago1713
Vancouver1219Philadelphia1613Philadelphia1613
Washington1033Chicago1713Tampa1513
Winnipeg842Colorado1921Montreal1610

PlayerPosTeamAgeCap HitExpiryStatus
Iginla,JaromeRCGY35$7,000,0002013(UFA)
Semin,AlexanderRCAR28$7,000,0002013(UFA)
Timonen,KimmoDPHI37$6,333,3332013(UFA)
Elias,PatrikCNJD36$6,000,0002013(UFA)
Backstrom,NiklasGMIN34$6,000,0002013(UFA)
Visnovsky,LubomirDNYI36$5,600,0002013(UFA)
Gonchar,SergeiDOTT38$5,500,0002013(UFA)
Perry,CoreyRANA27$5,325,0002013(UFA)
Getzlaf,RyanCANA27$5,325,0002013(UFA)
Ribeiro,MikeCWAS32$5,000,0002013(UFA)
Thomas,TimGBOS38$5,000,0002013(UFA)
Alfredsson,DanielROTT39$4,875,0002013(UFA)
Connolly,TimCTOR31$4,750,0002013(UFA)
McDonald,AndyCSTL35$4,700,0002013(UFA)
Jagr,JaromirRDAL40$4,550,0002013(UFA)
Selanne,TeemuRANA42$4,500,0002013(UFA)
Hainsey,RonDWIN31$4,500,0002013(UFA)
Lupul,JoffreyLTOR28$4,250,0002013(UFA)
Morrow,BrendenLDAL33$4,100,0002013(UFA)
Streit,MarkDNYI34$4,100,0002013(UFA)
Bouchard,Pierre-MarcRMIN28$4,080,0002013(UFA)
Antropov,NikCWIN32$4,062,5002013(UFA)


Last edited by ULF_55: 11-04-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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11-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Dougie Gilmour View Post
I was just on capgeek and I took a look at how much space we are gonna have next year.....I say keep the guy because he is a good chess player
Free cap space is only good if you have players worthy of spending it on.

Capgeek shows that Leafs will have only 13 players + 2 buyouts (Tucker & Armstrong) = $41,515,833

If the new CBA comes to a 50/50 split that means the Cap ceiling is coming down and Bettman mentioned $59 mil down from $70 mil resulting in less space.

However in terms of team building if 1/2 the roster is unsigned (13 signed of 23 players) after 5 years of building, that implies major roster change ahead, which is closer to a reboot/restart then a rebuilding plan increasing with each passing year in competitiveness. So in terms of GM evaluation is that good or bad?

If we are starting over replacing 1/2 the roster for the 2013-14 season, then it could be suggested that is a good starting point for a new GM to take over after the "clearing of the slate" is completed after this year.

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11-04-2012, 10:43 AM
  #913
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I still think it would be enough to go for a 1C (Getzlaf if he doesn't resign), Lupul for a short term deal (hopefully nothing crazy) and Kessel the season after and whatever spots we need to fill in we do it threw the farm system (Lombo, Connolly ext. and Kadri, Colborne ext.)

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11-04-2012, 10:54 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Dougie Gilmour View Post
I still think it would be enough to go for a 1C (Getzlaf if he doesn't resign), Lupul for a short term deal (hopefully nothing crazy) and Kessel the season after and whatever spots we need to fill in we do it threw the farm system (Lombo, Connolly ext. and Kadri, Colborne ext.)
Keep in mind the Owners also want to raise the UFA age by at least a couple of years..

That would mean players like Getzlaf that were scheduled for free agency summer 2013 would not technically reach UFA status until summer 2015 now if that proposed change goes through.

Getzlaf would simply become a RFA and could only be stolen away via offersheet, as opposed to simply signed as a UFA for next year like a lot of Leaf fans might have hoped for originally.

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11-04-2012, 11:03 AM
  #915
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Keep in mind the Owners also want to raise the UFA age by at least a couple of years..

That would mean players like Getzlaf that were scheduled for free agency summer 2013 would not technically reach UFA status until summer 2015 now if that proposed change goes through.

Getzlaf would simply become a RFA and could only be stolen away via offersheet, as opposed to simply signed as a UFA for next year like a lot of Leaf fans might have hoped for originally.
Counting on Free Agents is a truly disasterous way to try and build a franchise. Horrible. I love Getzlaf, don't get me wrong...but Toronto hasn't exactly been the premiere destination for the best FAs available lately. Otherwise we would have Brad Richards as our #1 C...Parise as a top 6 forward and Suter as our #1 D. I think the team's future would be a little brighter adding those 3 FA's from the last two off-seasons.

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11-04-2012, 11:25 AM
  #916
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Counting on Free Agents is a truly disasterous way to try and build a franchise. Horrible. I love Getzlaf, don't get me wrong...but Toronto hasn't exactly been the premiere destination for the best FAs available lately. Otherwise we would have Brad Richards as our #1 C...Parise as a top 6 forward and Suter as our #1 D. I think the team's future would be a little brighter adding those 3 FA's from the last two off-seasons.
With the cap going down a huge amount, counting on signing UFA's to save your team is going to get even more disastrous, especially with the increase of age and terms of service requirements.

Let's hope Greg McKegg is the real deal.

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11-04-2012, 11:36 AM
  #917
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With the cap going down a huge amount, counting on signing UFA's to save your team is going to get even more disastrous, especially with the increase of age and terms of service requirements.

Let's hope Greg McKegg is the real deal.
Pretty soon as a result of the new CBA landscape all 30 teams will be saying "play the kids" as the standard operating practice by which they operate through drafting and developing talent.

Lets hope Leafs prospect system (that many fans are giving praise for building up) is strong enough to propel the Leafs out of the bottom of the league standings and surpassing other teams by their contributions in the near future.

The proof will be in the pudding very soon when that belief will be tested when forced into action, to see the actual results and not mere prospect projections.

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11-04-2012, 12:38 PM
  #918
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Keep in mind the Owners also want to raise the UFA age by at least a couple of years..

That would mean players like Getzlaf that were scheduled for free agency summer 2013 would not technically reach UFA status until summer 2015 now if that proposed change goes through.

Getzlaf would simply become a RFA and could only be stolen away via offersheet, as opposed to simply signed as a UFA for next year like a lot of Leaf fans might have hoped for originally.
I think it will be Granfathered in. I can't see the PA agreeing to that.

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11-04-2012, 12:58 PM
  #919
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I think it will be Granfathered in. I can't see the PA agreeing to that.
The question is whether the players want their existing contracts honoured or if they'd prefer earlier UFA age? The trade off for getting their money is more restrictions.

Players are going to be giving up quite a bit in this next deal.

Owners are going to win this battle.

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11-04-2012, 03:01 PM
  #920
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With the cap going down a huge amount, counting on signing UFA's to save your team is going to get even more disastrous, especially with the increase of age and terms of service requirements.

Let's hope Greg McKegg is the real deal.
Yes along with Biggs, Ross, D'Amigo, Kadri, Colborne and host of others. This is truly the bulk of Mr. Burke's good work while taking reigns according to his loyal fanbase. These guys will be counted on bringing this team out of the depths into contention either by their value as a trade chip or by their contributions to the Blue and White. If not the Leafs are screwed for a long time to come.

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11-04-2012, 03:46 PM
  #921
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Yes along with Biggs, Ross, D'Amigo, Kadri, Colborne and host of others. This is truly the bulk of Mr. Burke's good work while taking reigns according to his loyal fanbase. These guys will be counted on bringing this team out of the depths into contention either by their value as a trade chip or by their contributions to the Blue and White. If not the Leafs are screwed for a long time to come.
4 seasons on tanking (bottom 10 finishes) + New CBA (with higher UFA status) + 1/2 roster (12 players needed) of free cap space + lower Cap ceiling =

Your 1013-14 Maple Leafs

JVR --- Colborne -- Kessel
Kadri -- Grabovski --Kulemin
D'Amigo -- McKegg -- Frattin
Komarov -- McClement -- Brown

Phaneuf -- Gardiner
Rielly -- Gunnarsson
Liles --- Holzer
Komisarek

Reimer
Scrivens

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11-04-2012, 04:34 PM
  #922
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4 seasons on tanking (bottom 10 finishes) + New CBA (with higher UFA status) + 1/2 roster (12 players needed) of free cap space + lower Cap ceiling =

Your 1013-14 Maple Leafs

JVR --- Colborne -- Kessel
Kadri -- Grabovski --Kulemin
D'Amigo -- McKegg -- Frattin
Komarov -- McClement -- Brown

Phaneuf -- Gardiner
Rielly -- Gunnarsson
Liles --- Holzer
Komisarek

Reimer
Scrivens
That team would finish dead last. The only forwards that have had any sort of experience/consistency at the nhl level are Kessel and Grabovski.
The goalies are as unproven as they come.
The defence is the only part that looks like it even belongs in the big leagues. But is still probably pretty mediocre.

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11-04-2012, 04:39 PM
  #923
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You are desperate.....

Wins are more important then GGA and Save percentages.

What do Fluery, Ward and Quick all have in common? Rings.......as a results of wins!

Now go and do more research......
You didn't answer my question. All those players in the first row have more wins than the corresponding player in the second row. Do you or do you not agree that the players in the first row are better?

Know what Fleury and Quick ACTUALLY have in common? Great teams around them. Ward was 17th in wins last year. Guess you think he sucks too.

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11-04-2012, 04:40 PM
  #924
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You best do some research......Sam Pollock, and Conn Smythe
Didn't win solely because of them. Great job naming ancients too.

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11-04-2012, 04:50 PM
  #925
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Free cap space is only good if you have players worthy of spending it on.

Capgeek shows that Leafs will have only 13 players + 2 buyouts (Tucker & Armstrong) = $41,515,833

If the new CBA comes to a 50/50 split that means the Cap ceiling is coming down and Bettman mentioned $59 mil down from $70 mil resulting in less space.

However in terms of team building if 1/2 the roster is unsigned (13 signed of 23 players) after 5 years of building, that implies major roster change ahead, which is closer to a reboot/restart then a rebuilding plan increasing with each passing year in competitiveness. So in terms of GM evaluation is that good or bad?

If we are starting over replacing 1/2 the roster for the 2013-14 season, then it could be suggested that is a good starting point for a new GM to take over after the "clearing of the slate" is completed after this year.
Since you love re-posting this garbage, as I posted in another thread:

You act like all of our RFAs and UFAs are instantly gone, nobody else is going to make the team, and there are going to be no trades or signings before a year from now. Not to mention there are no players that are soon to make the team, but not quite there yet. Give your head a shake.

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