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How would an All Czech/Slovak/Finnish team look?

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Old
10-22-2012, 02:49 AM
  #1
PhillyBluesFan
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How would an All Czech/Slovak/Finnish team look?

-This means 1 team with the best players from the 3 nations, not 3 different teams
-Players born 1960 or after only, so that means no Stastny
-NHL players only. Or at least if the played a lot in other leagues you are picking them based on their best in the NHL

Go!

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10-22-2012, 05:20 AM
  #2
Howe Elbows 9
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Kurri - Elias - Jagr
Hossa - Koivu - Selänne
Tikkanen - Holik - Lehtinen
Demitra - Prospal - Hejduk
Jokinen/Palffy

Chara - Timonen
Numminen - Hamrlik
Visnovsky - Lumme
Kaberle

Hasek
Kiprusoff
Vokoun

Well, I tried, but I needed to move some really good right wingers over on the left wing. I could have had an all-finnish second line but then I would have to demote Kurri from the top line. R.I.P. Demitra.

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10-22-2012, 05:35 AM
  #3
MadArcand
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No Stastny or Bondra?

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10-22-2012, 05:38 AM
  #4
FiLe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
Well, I tried, but I needed to move some really good right wingers over on the left wing. I could have had an all-finnish second line but then I would have to demote Kurri from the top line.
Swap Lehtinen and Hossa around, and you'll have solved at least part of the problem. And in the process, you've put together the best Finnish NT line, like, ever.


Let's see...

Hasek (Kiprusoff)

Visnovsky - Chara
Numminen - Ruotsalainen
Hamrlik - Timonen
Lumme

Bondra - Holik - Jagr
Tikkanen - Elias - Kurri ("The Finnish Sandwich", with Elias stunting Gretzky)
Lehtinen - Koivu - Selänne
Demitra - Prospal - Hossa
Palffy


What's really hard with building fantasy rosters as these is balancing offense with defense. It seems to be far easier to build teams loaded with talent for the former, but said squads wouldn't win a single game without the latter.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-22-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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10-22-2012, 06:30 AM
  #5
PhillyBluesFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
Kurri - Elias - Jagr
Hossa - Koivu - Selänne
Tikkanen - Holik - Lehtinen
Demitra - Prospal - Hejduk
Jokinen/Palffy

Chara - Timonen
Numminen - Hamrlik
Visnovsky - Lumme
Kaberle

Hasek
Kiprusoff
Vokoun

Well, I tried, but I needed to move some really good right wingers over on the left wing. I could have had an all-finnish second line but then I would have to demote Kurri from the top line. R.I.P. Demitra.
This is a good start, were Svoboda, Bondra, Sykora and Gaborik left off on purpose?

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10-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
-Players born 1960 or after only, so that means no Stastny
Why this?

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10-22-2012, 08:58 AM
  #7
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Yeah I think a team with no constraints would be nicer to see. That way guys like Novy, Pospisil, and Suchy could get their due.

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10-22-2012, 10:51 AM
  #8
seventieslord
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I haven't looked too hard at this, but surely one can build a top-6 on defense without having to invoke Hamrlik, Visnovsky or Lumme, no?

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10-22-2012, 11:15 AM
  #9
Howe Elbows 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
This is a good start, were Svoboda, Bondra, Sykora and Gaborik left off on purpose?
I forgot about Bondra since the reference I used listed players by the country they were born in, but he should be there. I really focused on career numbers in the NHL, and so Svoboda, Sykora and Gaborik were left off.

Quote:
I haven't looked too hard at this, but surely one can build a top-6 on defense without having to invoke Hamrlik, Visnovsky or Lumme, no?
When looking at NHL careers, I definitely think Hamrlik deserves to be on this team. But now I'm thinking that maybe Ruotsalainen and Svoboda should be there instead of Visnovsky and Lumme...

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10-22-2012, 11:30 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I haven't looked too hard at this, but surely one can build a top-6 on defense without having to invoke Hamrlik, Visnovsky or Lumme, no?
Yep, these rosters could use a lot more Robert Svehla.

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10-22-2012, 11:52 AM
  #11
vadim sharifijanov
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elias ruzicka jagr
straka lang/jokinen/nedved selanne
tikkanen m. koivu kurri
lehtinen holik hossa
utility forward: sinisalo (can play any position; ES, PP, PK)

(RWs who didn't make the cut: palffy, gaborik, bondra)

chara numminen
fischer svehla
timonen salo
hamrlik (for when salo gets hurt)

(didn't make the cut: ruotsalainen, siltanen, svoboda, kaberle, visnovsky, pitkanen)

hasek
kiprusoff



i tried to do this without playing anyone out of their true position (or else i would have probably put one or several of elias, kurri, and demitra at center, which they have all played in the NHL). second line center could really be anyone, maybe saku koivu could belong there too, but the three guys i have in there all have significantly more size and, post koivu's injury his second year, all peaked higher offensively.

utility forward is sinisalo, rather than a star scorer like palffy or bondra or gaborik because between jagr, teemu, kurri, and hossa, you have enough offensive from the RW. sinisalo can plug a lot of holes, whereas the three RWs i listed above are just more limited versions of the RWs who did make the roster. sure, any of them could probably shift to LW, but would you want any of them playing on a checking line (and this team has two)? could also have made an argument for gabby at LW (which he has played in the NHL) instead of straka, but with shoot-first centers in jokinen and nedved, as well as selanne on the opposite wing, i wanted a playmaking winger. maybe gaborik - lang - selanne could work, but i liked the idea of the second line being basically "give it to teemu and get out of the way." the blueline, with all the puck movers and stretch passers, is built for that game too.

on defense, a very solid group. not super-physical as a unit, so i loaded up the second pair as the tough, gritty pair, and have left the third pairing (while excellent at lidstrom-style positional defense and transition) to be slightly shielded against bigger forwards and to be my PP pair. if not for the glut of relatively similar defensemen (viz, lumme, kaberle, etc.), i probably wouldn't have put fischer in, but after chara this team needs another behemoth on the back end.

with the lack of high end offense-producing centers, i decided to go with a more defensive lineup up front. the bottom six is two excellent defensive units. i figure this would be the only way this team could potentially compete against hypothetical teams canada, sweden, russia, etc., which all would have much more offensive depth.

the best parts of this lineup are excellent though, and i can imagine you're down a goal at the end of the game, you'd pull the goalie and put out a unit of:

jagr elias selanne
timonen salo
holik (to cause havoc in front of the net)

up a goal late, you can just grind down the opposition with:

tikkanen holik lehtinen
chara svehla

and still have an excellent second defensive unit built around kurri and koivu to spell them.

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10-22-2012, 02:38 PM
  #12
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You should change the thread title to "How would Team Random look?". Seriously, what's the point of Czechoslovakia + Finland post 1960?

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10-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #13
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I'm just having trouble figuring out why there's not 2 Koivu's on every list

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10-22-2012, 04:41 PM
  #14
seventieslord
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Alright, I’ve reviewed it more closely, and if we’re going with this 1960 restriction, these are the best 6 blueliners you can use:

Chara – Numminen
Timonen – Svehla
Kubina – Hamrlik

Good skillset mix on all pairings, too.

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10-22-2012, 07:10 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
I forgot about Bondra since the reference I used listed players by the country they were born in, but he should be there. I really focused on career numbers in the NHL, and so Svoboda, Sykora and Gaborik were left off.
I should of said this before but the point is to build the best team not pick the 22 players with the best careers.

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10-22-2012, 07:47 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
I should of said this before but the point is to build the best team not pick the 22 players with the best careers.
Which is what I attempted to do.

But there was a good question presented earlier - what's the big idea with mix'n'matching these three particular countries? I can understand people wondering from time to time what might a Czechoslovakian squad look like in an alternate reality where the countries never separated - but why throw Finland into the mix? The Finns don't have much to do with either the Czechs or the Slovaks - culturally or geographically.

The only justification I can see for it is breaking the mold of usual "Team Europe", as those tend to consist mostly of Russians and Swedes - with Jagr thrown in for good measure.

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10-22-2012, 07:50 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Which is what I attempted to do.

But there was a good question presented earlier - what's the big idea with mix'n'matching these three particular countries? I can understand people wondering from time to time what might a Czechoslovakian squad look like in an alternate reality where the countries never separated - but why throw Finland into the mix? The Finns don't have much to do with either the Czechs or the Slovaks - culturally or geographically.

The only justification I can see for it is breaking the mold of usual "Team Europe", as those tend to consist mostly of Russians and Swedes - with Jagr thrown in for good measure.
Yeah I was wondering what a Euro team would look like without Russia and Sweden.

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10-23-2012, 01:17 AM
  #18
MadArcand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Alright, I’ve reviewed it more closely, and if we’re going with this 1960 restriction, these are the best 6 blueliners you can use:

Chara – Numminen
Timonen – Svehla
Kubina – Hamrlik

Good skillset mix on all pairings, too.
Surely there has to be at least a dozen of better D-men than Kubina? Though most of them will be offense-oriented, I suppose, but then, someone like Svoboda is still much better choice.

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10-23-2012, 02:23 AM
  #19
seventieslord
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Surely there has to be at least a dozen of better D-men than Kubina? Though most of them will be offense-oriented, I suppose, but then, someone like Svoboda is still much better choice.
I'm not sure about that. Svoboda played on better teams, yes, but seemed to be a #4-5 more often than he was a #1-2. Kubina doesn't get enough credit for being a 1000 game top-3 defenseman who tooj hard matchups and contributed offensively.

Svoboda actually was a #1 once... on the 2000 lightning, who were the 3rd worst team of the 2000s (2000 thrashers, 2001 isles) - and yes, I'm aware of the Irony, as Kubina was the #2 on that horrible team, but in fairness he was 22 and a sophomore.

I looked quite closely at the guys available and I see Kubina 5th or 6th. He may be better than Hamrlik, although I'd lean towards Roman, I think.

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10-23-2012, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
-Players born 1960 or after only, so that means no Stastny
Go!
Aaa, crap . I want Jozef "The Razor" Golonka in the list.

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10-23-2012, 09:36 AM
  #21
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So here's my shot at Team Random () :

Patrik Eliáš - Vladimír Růžička - Jaromír Jágr
Teemu Selänne - Saku Koivu - Jari Kurri
Marián Gáborík - Pavol Demitra - Marián Hossa
Robert Holík - Jere Lehtinen - Žigmund Pálffy

Zdeno Chára - Róbert Švehla
Teppo Numminen - Kimmo Timonen
Sami Salo - Roman Hamrlík

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10-23-2012, 10:22 AM
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seventieslord
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It seems there's a general consensus on who the top-4 defensemen are, at least.

From there, it's almost a matter of personal preference between Hamrlik, Kubina, Kaberle, Visnovsky, Salo, Lumme, Ruotsalainen, Svoboda, Siltanen and probably a couple others can be thrown in there as well.

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10-23-2012, 06:31 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'm not sure about that. Svoboda played on better teams, yes, but seemed to be a #4-5 more often than he was a #1-2. Kubina doesn't get enough credit for being a 1000 game top-3 defenseman who tooj hard matchups and contributed offensively.

Svoboda actually was a #1 once... on the 2000 lightning, who were the 3rd worst team of the 2000s (2000 thrashers, 2001 isles) - and yes, I'm aware of the Irony, as Kubina was the #2 on that horrible team, but in fairness he was 22 and a sophomore.

I looked quite closely at the guys available and I see Kubina 5th or 6th. He may be better than Hamrlik, although I'd lean towards Roman, I think.
i've honestly never thought kubina was good enough to be in the same conversation as hamrlik. i kind of always saw kubina as a poor man's aucoin, with the same mobility/read issues, whereas hamrlik could do everything at a decently high level. wasn't really elite at anything, but a very good all rounder where if he was your number one you were probably in trouble, but you'd be doing cartwheels if he was your number three.

but am i just a homer for thinking salo, if you discount the constant injuries, was better than kubina at their bests? for a guy his size, he isn't/wasn't physical, but so defensively smart in the lidstrom or timonen vein (obviously much closer to timonen and lidstrom). and just as heavy a cannon as kubina, but from what i saw more accurate and effective. and the way he holds the zone-- shades of bourque. a very poor man's bourque, but reminiscent of him nonetheless.

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10-23-2012, 07:03 PM
  #24
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Kurri had some success in LA at center. Having him center the 1st line would open up an extra spot at RW, plus I think he'd be a great fit with Jagr.


Elias - Kurri - Jagr
Tikkanen - Demitra - Selanne
Lehtinen - Holik - Hossa
Palffy - S. Koivu - Bondra


D has already been discussed and the goalies are a no-brainer.



EDIT: Demitra and Koivu could easily be switched. I think Demitra was the better player, but not by a ton and there are chemistry issues to consider. IMO, that is the only real tough choice here.


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 10-23-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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Old
10-24-2012, 01:55 AM
  #25
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alko View Post
Aaa, crap . I want Jozef "The Razor" Golonka in the list.
you and me both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i've honestly never thought kubina was good enough to be in the same conversation as hamrlik. i kind of always saw kubina as a poor man's aucoin, with the same mobility/read issues, whereas hamrlik could do everything at a decently high level. wasn't really elite at anything, but a very good all rounder where if he was your number one you were probably in trouble, but you'd be doing cartwheels if he was your number three.
That's pretty much Kubina. Just a tad less in the puckmoving side, and with whole careers and defensive matchups considered, no worse defensively, but with that immense size he was ready for any physical matchup.

It's funny you mention Aucoin though, because I think in the end he's probably a poor man's Hamrlik, and I think those three are all more or less equal and ultimately are all poor man's McCabes, to some degree.

Quote:
but am i just a homer for thinking salo, if you discount the constant injuries, was better than kubina at their bests? for a guy his size, he isn't/wasn't physical, but so defensively smart in the lidstrom or timonen vein (obviously much closer to timonen and lidstrom). and just as heavy a cannon as kubina, but from what i saw more accurate and effective. and the way he holds the zone-- shades of bourque. a very poor man's bourque, but reminiscent of him nonetheless.
Good question. I'm going to take the easy way out and say yes, a bit of a homer. But only a bit.

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