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Why so much hatred and criticism towards the players?

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Old
10-30-2012, 06:40 AM
  #226
Roland of Gilead
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Originally Posted by BlazingRoy View Post
1. They play for, at best, 20 years and then a lot of them have no jobs to fall back on unless they get an office job from a team.
Well boo hoo. Nothing is stopping them to study and getting a new job. Like many of us must do if losing a job. You don´t need to be in retirement when you are 35 and ending your career in hockey. 35-40 years old can study and get a another career in a different job. Only lazyness is stopping that.

Edit: And lets say that some player gets 3M/year. He plays 3 years and gets 9M. After taxes and all he has at least 5M left. You can easily live rest of your life with that money and thats only 3 years job. Its your own fault if you spend that cash to luxury-cars, houses etc.


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10-30-2012, 07:52 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
I'm with the players.. People can't relate to the mental and physical strain it takes to play at their level.. They deserve their fair pay and I really believe this is about the owners not wanting to share more of their personal revenues
I think most reasonable fans understand it's a mentally and physically stressful job.
However there are a lot of mentally and physically stressful jobs in this world. Let me name some that I feel are on par in either both ways or significantly in one: soldier, firefighter, many medical workers, paramedic, police officer, mortuary worker,construction worker, trucker. Could probably come up with many more if I did some research. The point is, they are very well compensated for it because they have a unique talent, and those of us who aren't making enough to retire on in a couple years are sick of hearing about their monetary problems. You know what I could do about it if my company decided tommorow to cut everyone's wages by a dollar an hour? Nothing. I could go and get a job somewhere else, but the place I'm at already pays pretty well for my kind of job and working at a hospital would suck(and pay less).

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Old
10-30-2012, 07:54 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by BlazingRoy View Post
I'm on the players side. You can talk all you want about how they make way more money than reglar people do but consider a few things:

1. They play for, at best, 20 years and then a lot of them have no jobs to fall back on unless they get an office job from a team.

2. They get injured and that stuff does not just go away, they got to live with damaged bodies for their entire lives, and sometimes they barely live at all (concussions).

3. They travel all the time and do not get to spend that much time with their families.

4. Even when the season ends they still gotta train and watch what they eat all the time, or else risk getting phased out.

This isn't even talking about the 3rd and 4th line grinders who barely play at all and have to fight like hell to get contracts.

Finally, The NHL isn't even negotiating, sure they offered 50/50 split which is better than their previous position a bit... players still do not get their cushion into the 50/50, and the NHL won't even talk about the other aspects like contract length and free agency. The Owners are giving up almost nothing, but making it look like they are. We as fans obviously want hockey to start, but I'm not gonna take that at the expense of players getting destroyed by the NHL just because they don't wanna agree to something that gives them nothing.

The players even said they would take this **** if the GM's paid them what they signed them for.

1.) - The money they make throughout their careers for the majority of players is more than enough to live off if they use it sensibly. Case in point, look at Craig Adams. He generally has around $600k each year. $11,538 a week. Most people don't make that in half a year. He's had around that for the last 7 years (Cap Geek won't go back any further) so that's around $4.2m. If you can't live off that then you're doing something wrong. The interest alone would get you money. Craig Adams is also a Harvard Graduate. It's up to the players to find a job for themselves but the majority find a job in hockey after they retire.

2.) Insurance payouts. Real world people have problems too. They have to pay for it themselves, often with money they don't have. Hockey players can generally afford it.

3.) Travelling is part of the sacrifice you have to give if you want to play the sport. But the majority get May-August off. Not to mention that generally they're normally not away from more than a week and a half. Technology these days is a wonderful thing as well. Skype.

4.) People have to watch their weight in the real world - no difference.

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10-30-2012, 08:24 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.
That is one point and I have posted many more already check my history if you wish.

Players have no good reason for acting like they have. The last owner offer was a good deal for everyone.

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10-30-2012, 08:27 AM
  #230
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I lose sympathy when the players come out with daft tweets that make them look like they have a sense of entitlement. Bissonnette for example, obviously someone trolls him about the lockout, but he makes the players out to be superior to other sports IMO. Not necessary and doesn't endear the players to the fans IMO.

Glenn schwarz ‏@headpins
@BizNasty2point0 hey biz thought I'd point out baseball players only got 46% of baseball rev last year that don he's a great leader
Cool @headpins. I'd also like to point out that basketball players get wheelchaired off the court when they hurt their shoulder.
Also @headpins. I'd like to point out NASCAR wastes a ton of fuel.

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10-30-2012, 10:20 AM
  #231
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Thirty teams missed out on their annual "Rookie Dinner" this season.

How about the NHL offer to pick up the tab on all the dinners to get this thing going again?

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10-30-2012, 10:24 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
I lose sympathy when the players come out with daft tweets that make them look like they have a sense of entitlement. Bissonnette for example, obviously someone trolls him about the lockout, but he makes the players out to be superior to other sports IMO. Not necessary and doesn't endear the players to the fans IMO.

Glenn schwarz ‏@headpins
@BizNasty2point0 hey biz thought I'd point out baseball players only got 46% of baseball rev last year that don he's a great leader
Cool @headpins. I'd also like to point out that basketball players get wheelchaired off the court when they hurt their shoulder.
Also @headpins. I'd like to point out NASCAR wastes a ton of fuel.
I wonder if BizNasty has played his last game in the NHL.

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10-30-2012, 10:31 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I wonder if BizNasty has played his last game in the NHL.
Same here, I wonder if he feels good should the players get their way but he's out of a job.

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10-30-2012, 10:36 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I wonder if BizNasty has played his last game in the NHL.
I doubt that possibility has occurred to him. That would require intelligence.

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10-30-2012, 10:46 AM
  #235
sheed36
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
1.) - The money they make throughout their careers for the majority of players is more than enough to live off if they use it sensibly. Case in point, look at Craig Adams. He generally has around $600k each year. $11,538 a week. Most people don't make that in half a year. He's had around that for the last 7 years (Cap Geek won't go back any further) so that's around $4.2m. If you can't live off that then you're doing something wrong. The interest alone would get you money. Craig Adams is also a Harvard Graduate. It's up to the players to find a job for themselves but the majority find a job in hockey after they retire.

2.) Insurance payouts. Real world people have problems too. They have to pay for it themselves, often with money they don't have. Hockey players can generally afford it.

3.) Travelling is part of the sacrifice you have to give if you want to play the sport. But the majority get May-August off. Not to mention that generally they're normally not away from more than a week and a half. Technology these days is a wonderful thing as well. Skype.

4.) People have to watch their weight in the real world - no difference.

Here's Craig Adams career salary total - $5,480,000

http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/search...earchdbdisplay

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10-30-2012, 10:53 AM
  #236
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Keep in mind that the players are in a high income bracket. Uncle Sam takes a lot when you make that much, plus many of these guys have to pay taxes in Canada as well. Don't forget the obscure tax laws that make you pay to each and every state you play in, as well as your own.

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10-30-2012, 10:54 AM
  #237
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It is thoroughly disappointing to come here and read so many people talk about recessions, compare what players make to what "normal people" make, etc.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 10-30-2012 at 12:01 PM. Reason: keep it about posts, not posters
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10-30-2012, 11:01 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Here's Craig Adams career salary total - $5,480,000

http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/search...earchdbdisplay
If a Harvard education and 5.5 millions dollars is not enough for you to live a good live, then maybe, just maybe, you made some wrong decisions along the way. Now I'm not saying Craig Adams will have problems, he really seems like a good guy, but his situation is one of the worst of any NHL player.

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10-30-2012, 11:39 AM
  #239
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At this point of the lockout, who's righter doesn't matter as much. The players have clearly lost this battle in terms of salary lost at -26.5%.

That's why most fans don't understand the reason they are still holding out. I will say it again: most of them are a bunch of idiots who never understood numbers.

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10-30-2012, 11:40 AM
  #240
pepty
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It is thoroughly disappointing to come here and read so many people talk about recessions, compare what players make to what "normal people" make, etc.
What a load. if people make comparisons it is because the players have sought to do so, such as Krys Barch comparing himself to a blue collar worker or Couture and Barch and others going on about how they deserve a lot of money because of all their hard work and the danger in playing hockey as though no one else could possibly imagine how hard their life is.

They have been called out for their hypocrisy;those are the only time these comparisons have some up.

MOD

Regarding the entertainment business, there are lots of people who barely make a living, many actors and writers and artists make very little money.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 10-30-2012 at 12:15 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
10-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #241
coldsteelonice84
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What a load. if people make comparisons it is because the players have sought to do so, such as Krys Barch comparing himself to a blue collar worker or Couture and Barch and others going on about how they deserve a lot of money because of all their hard work and the danger in playing hockey as though no one else could possibly imagine how hard their life is.

They have been called out for their hypocrisy;those are the only time these comparisons have some up.

But all the arrogance and self entitlement has come across loud and clear. Stop pretending to be another working joe when you obviously don't believe a word of it.

Regarding the entertainment business, there are lots of people who barely make a living, many actors and writers and artists make very little money.
FACT. People compare themselves to the players and carry on with disgust over their salaries because they think they are smarter. You see it here all the time. "High school dropouts, if they only knew the truth, if only I could explain to them in words they can understand, they would sign the NHL proposal" How many times have we seen that one? Hundreds.

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10-30-2012, 12:06 PM
  #242
pepty
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
There are 750 players. If you want to single out a couple, go ahead, let's see the quotes though. Fact is, they are fighting for what they feel they have earned. Who gives a **** if they make 20x, 30x, 40x the average joe. I see it here all the time, be happy with the money you do make, we are in a recession, blah blah blah. So that means hand it over to even richer people? Pick a lane.
The recession is a reality for fans-they have to decide where the money goes that they earn from these mundane jobs for which you appear to have so much contempt.

All of that money the players think they deserve comes from the fans.

If they don't pay the money those players don't get their overblown salaries. They can play in Europe where the games are more affordable for the fans and the players earn a fraction of what they make in North America..

For a fan it is more important to support a local owner keeping the team in the city and providing and keeping up a venue long term than to blow it away on a player who may be in the city for a couple of years and evidently feels entitled to make as much money as he can lay his hands on for-oh lets just say-a new Ferrari.

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10-30-2012, 12:07 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
This is exactly how I feel and I would really like someone who thinks he/she understands the players to explain it to me. And I don't do this to start a fight, I would really just like to know.
I've been waiting for a good explanation for a long time.

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10-30-2012, 12:08 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
They have been called out for their hypocrisy; those are the only time these comparisons have some up. But all the arrogance and self entitlement has come across loud and clear. Stop pretending to be another working joe when you obviously don't believe a word of it... Regarding the entertainment business, there are lots of people who barely make a living, many actors and writers and artists make very little money.
... of course. Takes as much "Luck" as it does talent to rise in the entertainment sector. However, there are "prodigies", be they pianists or whatever who early in life are recognized for their gifts, that talent then nurtured, developed. Hockey players are no different. From an early age (Gretzky at like 6) the individual groomed, their career paths established early, grow up fast; leaving normal, different realities to the vast majority of the population, the mere "mortals", outliers'. Life in a bubble. Any comparison to the "real world" is completely disingenuous, misses the mark altogether. Its a mistake to paint the entire membership as hypocritical simply because of the ill advised statements of a few. So why Damn them all for it? How is that helpful?

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10-30-2012, 12:15 PM
  #245
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I've never said the players should make "real world" wages, however, I do think that if you cut every NHL salary by 50% (meaning every full-time NHLer would be making at least $275,000 a year), then it would still be great compensation for their skills.

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10-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #246
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It's pretty much clear what the NHL wants. The PA comes in with some silly "alternative vision" of how Don Fehr thinks the NHL should be run, because apparently he's an expert.
Bettman's visions of how the NHL should be run don't exactly have a stunning track record of success. What does he call it? An 'unsustainable business model'?

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10-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #247
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You couldn't have missed Barch's 'woe is me' twitter rant. It was all over the place.

"I sit in front of a fire, 8 OV deep and starting a bottle of Porte that will assist in the translations of my emotions to words! No different than a truck driver, farmer or line worker, I have a shot and a beer."

"I sit here with both my boys sleeping and my wife due with our 3rd. My thoughts racing on what I can conquer tomorrow to get our family ahead. Sometimes, wondering if I should have existed when a word and a gun solidified and solved all problems."

"One half to 3/4 of my peers will have to work for the next 50 years of their lives."

Woe is me. 850k/year by the way.

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10-30-2012, 12:17 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... of course. Takes as much "Luck" as it does talent to rise in the entertainment sector. However, there are "prodigies", be they pianists or whatever who early in life are recognized for their gifts, that talent then nurtured, developed. Hockey players are no different. From an early age (Gretzky at like 6) the individual groomed, their career paths established early, grow up fast; leaving normal, different realities to the vast majority, outliers'. Any comparison to the "real world" is completely disingenuous, misses the mark altogether. Its a mistake to paint the entire membership as hypocritical simply because of the ill advised statements of a few. So why Damn them all for it? How is that helpful?
Gretzky is one thing, this is not about the stars only. And yes we have had lots of comparisons to every day workers on the one hand and self entitled arrogance on the other.

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10-30-2012, 12:18 PM
  #249
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That's exactly what they're trying to do. The systemic flaw at the moment is that players get too much of the revenue, with increased costs during the last CBA it has got to the stage where too many teams are losing money. Revenue is up, profits are down, therefore you have to cut operational costs - in this case player salary. They've probably already cut every other cost that they can.
No. The systemic flaw is the calculation of the cap floor. Since the last lockout, the cap ceiling has increased by something like 80%, while the floor has increased by something like 130%. And yet the owners haven't proposed anything to correct this, which tells me that they're less concerned about making floor teams (Phoenix, Florida, etc..) viable and more concerned about making cap teams more profitable.

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10-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #250
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I've never said the players should make "real world" wages, however, I do think that if you cut every NHL salary by 50% (meaning every full-time NHLer would be making at least $275,000 a year), then it would still be great compensation for their skills.
Exactly. No one is disagreeing that players should be well-paid. It's the extent of it that we disagree on. Avg $2m would be fine, no? Not many would think players underpaid at their rate. Given that the NHL is a bit of a niche sport, pulling in the least revenue of the big four, is beaten regularly in TV ratings by sitcom reruns, and the next biggest hockey league pays 1/3 of the salaries...yet NHL players are paid the 2nd highest average salary of the big four sports.

Cut that down to $2.2 million and they'd still be 2nd highest paid.

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