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Old
01-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #176
crashman
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
this is actually the perfect year for a youth movement and mgmt has again failed to recognize that

a shortened season with less hype and almost equall across the board expectations across the league coupled with so many games packed so close together bleeds itself for youth and speed over age.

this is the year to throw nyquist, tatar and smith into full time top minutes and see what we got with them, if nothing, who cares if we finsih 9th or 10th in the west and end up with a top pick in a very good draft at leats we will know for sure what we need to do in the offseason

tatar has earned the tight to be given an opportunity in the NHL, if not with detroit then trade him out to someone who will
I think you're right. But Holland went and re-signed some guys and signed a couple vets. I don't have a problem with any of the most recent signings in particular (I do think Abdelkader is overpaid for what he brings), but I just would have rather seen them promote guys from within.

They are just staying true to their formula of maintaining a mostly veteran team and taking their time bringing the young talent in, letting them learn from the vets. The main problem is though, our best veteran talent is almost all gone.

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01-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
bertuzzi in top 6?
Bertuzzi and Samuelsson will be in the top 6 a few weeks into the regular season. It's just how Babcock and Ken Holland (moreso) are. Out with the new and fresh, in with the old.

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I'm fine with him in GR this year, but if he doesn't make the team next year, something in management needs to change. Next year is the perfect opportunity for a youth movement while, at the same time, improving the team.
This year would have been good too given the short season, give them a crash course. Anybody can win when it's only 48 games.

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01-11-2013, 01:44 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
this is actually the perfect year for a youth movement and mgmt has again failed to recognize that

a shortened season with less hype and almost equall across the board expectations across the league coupled with so many games packed so close together bleeds itself for youth and speed over age.

this is the year to throw nyquist, tatar and smith into full time top minutes and see what we got with them, if nothing, who cares if we finsih 9th or 10th in the west and end up with a top pick in a very good draft at leats we will know for sure what we need to do in the offseason

tatar has earned the tight to be given an opportunity in the NHL, if not with detroit then trade him out to someone who will
This is exactly what I said previously, with a shortened season and the fact that making the playoffs this year will basically be a crapshoot where there will be chances for pretty much any team, even the leafs (LOL), we might as well see if these kids can sink or swim and give them real development time against the pros. If we finish 9th or 10th and end the streak, so what, fans won't be pissed, and if they are, it won't last long since the season is short, and if we are truly getting the winter classic still next season, any fan disappointment will turn into excitement once the 2013-14 season starts and the big game on New Years. Plus we will have our best chance at getting our first top 10 pick in like 2 decades. This is the perfect time to insert both Nyquist and Tatar into the lineup.

I'm all for a 2nd line of Nyquist - Datsyuk - Tatar, let them develop while Datsyuk is still elite and it will do wonders for them in a couple years once the reign is handed over to the next crop of youngsters to lead this team.

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01-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #179
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If I could have my ideal forward lineup it would be something like:

Nyquist-Pavs-Mule
Fil-Z-Brunner
Tatar-Helm-Mursak
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Sammy/Tootoo
Bert
Miller
Cleary
Eaves

Three of your lines would have right wings who shoot right handed. Your top three lines would have great speed and playmaking capability and be defensively sound. Mule would be your only liability on defense and even he's not terrible. Your fourth would have good size and could forecheck. You'd have to clear out Bert and Cleary and probably Eaves but all of them seem like they are on their last legs anyway. I'd keep Miller because he's got size, can PK and can play a physical game.

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01-11-2013, 03:11 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
This is exactly what I said previously, with a shortened season and the fact that making the playoffs this year will basically be a crapshoot where there will be chances for pretty much any team, even the leafs (LOL), we might as well see if these kids can sink or swim and give them real development time against the pros. If we finish 9th or 10th and end the streak, so what, fans won't be pissed, and if they are, it won't last long since the season is short, and if we are truly getting the winter classic still next season, any fan disappointment will turn into excitement once the 2013-14 season starts and the big game on New Years. Plus we will have our best chance at getting our first top 10 pick in like 2 decades. This is the perfect time to insert both Nyquist and Tatar into the lineup.

I'm all for a 2nd line of Nyquist - Datsyuk - Tatar, let them develop while Datsyuk is still elite and it will do wonders for them in a couple years once the reign is handed over to the next crop of youngsters to lead this team.
I have never have understood the logic that making the playoffs is a complete crapshoot this year. Sure, there may be a couple of hot teams but if you have a terrible team, you're not gonna make the playoffs.

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01-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I have never have understood the logic that making the playoffs is a complete crapshoot this year. Sure, there may be a couple of hot teams but if you have a terrible team, you're not gonna make the playoffs.
i think its because this year a bad 5 games or two weeks will easily spell the end of your playoff hopes

i remember seeing some stats shown on TSN that showed in the last 15 years only like 3 or 4 teams who in Nov were out of a playoff spot by more then 5 pts went on to make the playoffs, essentially meaning if your out in Nov you're out in April.

with even less time to make up for bad streches this shortened season, people think you will see a few surprises both good and bad regarding the plyoff picture

the difference between 6th and 10th will be very close

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01-11-2013, 04:16 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
I remember seeing some stats shown on TSN that showed in the last 15 years only like 3 or 4 teams who in Nov were out of a playoff spot by more then 5 pts went on to make the playoffs, essentially meaning if your out in Nov you're out in April.
That was the thanksgiving day mark. Usually Wings have been pretty high there every season. They just know how to come to a new season.

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01-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I have never have understood the logic that making the playoffs is a complete crapshoot this year. Sure, there may be a couple of hot teams but if you have a terrible team, you're not gonna make the playoffs.
I think the shortened season opens up more possibilities for a mediocre-to-good team to suffer some key injuries or just go on a losing streak that allows a generally subpar team to sneak past them into the PO's. IMO, the standard length regular season allows more chances/time for good teams to separate themselves from the bad ones, making it tougher for the weaker teams to nail down a PO spot.

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01-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
If I could have my ideal forward lineup it would be something like:

Nyquist-Pavs-Mule
Fil-Z-Brunner
Tatar-Helm-Mursak
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tootoo
These lines are awesome. God why did we sign Samuelsson again?

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01-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #185
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These lines are awesome. God why did we sign Samuelsson again?
With a NTC

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01-11-2013, 06:04 PM
  #186
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I'd like Mursak to get an honest shot but no way I'd place him above Sammy or Cleary going into a season, nor expect him to outplay them.. Dude's got 4 NHL points in total and wasn't a massive AHL scorer either. Let's be real.

Tatar on the other hand, I feel could easily slot into a top9 spot right now and not look out of place.

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01-11-2013, 06:41 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I'd like Mursak to get an honest shot but no way I'd place him above Sammy or Cleary going into a season, nor expect him to outplay them.. Dude's got 4 NHL points in total and wasn't a massive AHL scorer either. Let's be real.

Tatar on the other hand, I feel could easily slot into a top9 spot right now and not look out of place.
Oh don't worry it's not going to happen. I was just trying to put together the best lineup I could come up with based on chemistry. The top two lines are full of top 6 skilled forwards who can generate loads of offense. The third line is all speedy forecheckers and features two strong PK'ers in Helm and Mursak. The fourth line is comprised of physical pluggers along with a legit center in Sheahan.

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01-11-2013, 06:48 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
Bertuzzi and Samuelsson will be in the top 6 a few weeks into the regular season. It's just how Babcock and Ken Holland (moreso) are. Out with the new and fresh, in with the old.


This year would have been good too given the short season, give them a crash course. Anybody can win when it's only 48 games.
I would say just the opposite. It would be better to bring in young guys into a longer season where mistakes mean less. Every game counts twice as much in a short season. The less young guys making mistakes the better. You can stick young guys in an 82 game season have a 10 game loosing streak at the begining of the year and still have 70 games to recover. Loose 10 games while sticking rookies into a 48 game season and you're done.

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01-11-2013, 06:52 PM
  #189
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I would say just the opposite. It would be better to bring in young guys into a longer season where mistakes mean less. Every game counts twice as much in a short season. The less young guys making mistakes the better. You can stick young guys in an 82 game season have a 10 game loosing streak at the begining of the year and still have 70 games to recover. Loose 10 games while sticking rookies into a 48 game season and you're done.
That was my thought process as well. Not to mention next year we have Cleary and Miller off the books... At least i hope so

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01-11-2013, 07:41 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
I would say just the opposite. It would be better to bring in young guys into a longer season where mistakes mean less. Every game counts twice as much in a short season. The less young guys making mistakes the better. You can stick young guys in an 82 game season have a 10 game loosing streak at the begining of the year and still have 70 games to recover. Loose 10 games while sticking rookies into a 48 game season and you're done.
On the flip side the young guys have been playing competitive hockey for several months now. Cleary, Bert and Sammy were probably doing nice and easy skating as a group. I think there's a good chance the older guys aren't ready for game pace. And when that happens it can get ugly quickly. Remember how quickly Brett Hull found out he wasn't prepared for the start of the season? Same thing happened to Shanny.

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01-12-2013, 02:43 AM
  #191
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On the flip side the young guys have been playing competitive hockey for several months now. Cleary, Bert and Sammy were probably doing nice and easy skating as a group. I think there's a good chance the older guys aren't ready for game pace. And when that happens it can get ugly quickly. Remember how quickly Brett Hull found out he wasn't prepared for the start of the season? Same thing happened to Shanny.
Or Bert and Sammy have been playing hockey for a long time and haven't forgotten how to play. Their bodies could be in fantastic shape because of their hard work they have been putting in and with the long off season they haven't been more prepared to play in years. see what I did there? You can make all the half empty guesses you want. But until the camp starts at least I'm going to assume the best.

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01-12-2013, 12:26 PM
  #192
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Or Bert and Sammy have been playing hockey for a long time and haven't forgotten how to play. Their bodies could be in fantastic shape because of their hard work they have been putting in and with the long off season they haven't been more prepared to play in years. see what I did there? You can make all the half empty guesses you want. But until the camp starts at least I'm going to assume the best.
Except for the fact I presented examples of future members of the hockey hall of fame, a place Bert, Sammy and Cleary will only enter as visitors.

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01-12-2013, 12:40 PM
  #193
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You really think if I gave a crap I couldn't find 2 vet players who played well that year? You can pick 2 out of 900 NHL players to prove any point you want. But its not really proof.

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01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
  #194
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You really think if I gave a crap I couldn't find 2 vet players who played well that year? You can pick 2 out of 900 NHL players to prove any point you want. But its not really proof.
I didn't try to prove anything. I said something could happen - not that it would definitely for a fact happen - and I presented examples of players much better than those guys who experienced exactly what I was talking about.

I'm guessing you were impressed with Bert and Cleary last year.

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01-12-2013, 01:14 PM
  #195
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I didn't try to prove anything. I said something could happen - not that it would definitely for a fact happen - and I presented examples of players much better than those guys who experienced exactly what I was talking about.

I'm guessing you were impressed with Bert and Cleary last year.
Then we agree that your examples were meaningless.

Cleary was playing on one leg last year I'd hope the extra time off could bring him back to a 50 point player.

Bert gets paid 3rd line money, is our best shootout guy, good puck control, 6'3 230lbs and puts up 40 points. not many better 3rd liners in the league.

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01-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #196
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Then we agree that your examples were meaningless.

Cleary was playing on one leg last year I'd hope the extra time off could bring him back to a 50 point player.

Bert gets paid 3rd line money, is our best shootout guy, good puck control, 6'3 230lbs and puts up 40 points. not many better 3rd liners in the league.
Dan Cleary has literally never scored 50 points in his career...

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01-12-2013, 01:27 PM
  #197
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Dan Cleary has literally never scored 50 points in his career...
He's expecting a career year for Danny at the ripe old age of 34. I don't know that there are currently PEDs in existence that would result in that type of performance.

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01-12-2013, 01:29 PM
  #198
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Dan Cleary has literally never scored 50 points in his career...
2010-11 he was over a 50 point pace. I'm not trying to say he does it every year but in a short year where he should be healthy with the extra time off its not unreasonable to think he could be on that type of pace this year. If not he still helps the team even when he isn't scoring. But stat watchers don't understand that there is more to the game than scoring points. He plays a role the Wings need. We have enough players who don't help when they don't score.

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01-12-2013, 01:40 PM
  #199
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These lines are awesome. God why did we sign Samuelsson again?
Pavel + Franzen =

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01-12-2013, 01:42 PM
  #200
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2010-11 he was over a 50 point pace. I'm not trying to say he does it every year but in a short year where he should be healthy with the extra time off its not unreasonable to think he could be on that type of pace this year. If not he still helps the team even when he isn't scoring. But stat watchers don't understand that there is more to the game than scoring points. He plays a role the Wings need. We have enough players who don't help when they don't score.
Cleary is gone next year. There's no room.

He needs to go. You've got to hit refresh on this team from time to time.

Here's hoping Cleary has a nice season and can earn himself a nice retirement contract in Boston or Toronto or Montreal.

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