HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

What to do with Tatar?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #201
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Then we agree that your examples were meaningless.

Cleary was playing on one leg last year I'd hope the extra time off could bring him back to a 50 point player.

Bert gets paid 3rd line money, is our best shootout guy, good puck control, 6'3 230lbs and puts up 40 points. not many better 3rd liners in the league.
I don't expect 40 points from Bert unless he plays in a top 2 role.

If anyone thinks he'll score 40 points on a line with Helm -- remember last year.
On Nov. 20, 2012, Bertuzzi had 0 points thanks to the lockout.
On Nov. 20, 2011, Bertuzzi had 3 points in 14 games playing with Cleary and Helm.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:01 PM
  #202
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 8,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Pavel + Franzen =
Pavel + Sammy is better?

or Franzen + Fil + Sammy is better?

Yeah I don't see that.

Nyquist would bring much more to the top 6 than Sammy.

Frk It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 04:58 PM
  #203
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,709
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Cleary is gone next year. There's no room.

He needs to go. You've got to hit refresh on this team from time to time.

Here's hoping Cleary has a nice season and can earn himself a nice retirement contract in Boston or Toronto or Montreal.
I wouldn't mind seeing a guy or two bought out just for the roster space, too.

__________________
blah, blah, blah
Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:01 PM
  #204
Heaton
Moderator
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,877
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing a guy or two bought out just for the roster space, too.
In a perfect world where those roster spots are always used on the guys that we want it would be great. But I don't see the manner of operations for the Wings changing until something completely breaks. While losing in the 1st round isn't what this team is all about - Holland has said he believes there is a lot of luck involved (being healthy at the right time, matchups etc...). I don't necessarily buy that - but that's the guy who calls the shots.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #205
Heaton
Moderator
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,877
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Pavel + Sammy is better?

or Franzen + Fil + Sammy is better?

Yeah I don't see that.

Nyquist would bring much more to the top 6 than Sammy.
I agree, mostly because of the upside. Nyquist has a much higher ceiling than Samuelsson at this point of their careers. Not too mention Samuelsson is a perfect 3rd liner, good skater, good defensively, can chip in offensively and will put the puck on net. He also antagonizes the other team and can draw penalties because of it. I think Sammy will be down the depth chart again before the halfway point.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:07 PM
  #206
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 8,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I agree, mostly because of the upside. Nyquist has a much higher ceiling than Samuelsson at this point of their careers. Not too mention Samuelsson is a perfect 3rd liner, good skater, good defensively, can chip in offensively and will put the puck on net. He also antagonizes the other team and can draw penalties because of it. I think Sammy will be down the depth chart again before the halfway point.
Yeah and not saying I have a problem with Sammy, he brings some good stuff to the team. But with Sammy at 36, and Nyquist at 23, I think it would make more sense for Gus to play in the top 6. Sammy is perfect for the 3rd line I think, but man we have a lot of forwards.

Frk It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 06:40 PM
  #207
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,709
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
In a perfect world where those roster spots are always used on the guys that we want it would be great. But I don't see the manner of operations for the Wings changing until something completely breaks. While losing in the 1st round isn't what this team is all about - Holland has said he believes there is a lot of luck involved (being healthy at the right time, matchups etc...). I don't necessarily buy that - but that's the guy who calls the shots.
While I'm hoping Holland moves a bit more forcefully next summer in creating roster room and remaking the roster, I'm not really expecting it. At some point he's either got to make room for the kids or lose them and have to keep blowing $2-3 million per on bottom6 guys.

Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 10:07 PM
  #208
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Pavel + Sammy is better?

or Franzen + Fil + Sammy is better?

Yeah I don't see that.

Nyquist would bring much more to the top 6 than Sammy.
I would rather either option.

Sammy would be better than Franzen. Two reasons. Franzen loves the puck too much. Sammy is a right handed shot

Yes, Franzen + Fil + Sammy is good. We've seen Flip + Franzen look good before.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 10:13 PM
  #209
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
In a perfect world where those roster spots are always used on the guys that we want it would be great. But I don't see the manner of operations for the Wings changing until something completely breaks. While losing in the 1st round isn't what this team is all about - Holland has said he believes there is a lot of luck involved (being healthy at the right time, matchups etc...). I don't necessarily buy that - but that's the guy who calls the shots.
Holland needs an adjustment.

He did a great job handling the difficult adjustment from pre-cap to the cap era. Since 2009, he's not been very good at assessing where we are and where we need to be.
He keeps treating this team like it's a veteran away from winning the cup.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 10:23 PM
  #210
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Holland needs an adjustment.

He did a great job handling the difficult adjustment from pre-cap to the cap era. Since 2009, he's not been very good at assessing where we are and where we need to be.
He keeps treating this team like it's a veteran away from winning the cup.
It's more like he's down with keeping things status quo. Bring back the vets and rely on what we have. We need to make some drastic moves to implement some scoring punch. Gotta makes trades to add top 6 talent and use our young guys. Gotta prepare to lose Datsyuk and stay competitive.

Vladdy84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  #211
TS Quint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
It's more like he's down with keeping things status quo. Bring back the vets and rely on what we have. We need to make some drastic moves to implement some scoring punch. Gotta makes trades to add top 6 talent and use our young guys. Gotta prepare to lose Datsyuk and stay competitive.
I don't see any reason why we would be any worse than last year in GF

TS Quint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 11:01 PM
  #212
WingedWheel1987
Ken Holland's office
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 8,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Holland needs an adjustment.

He did a great job handling the difficult adjustment from pre-cap to the cap era. Since 2009, he's not been very good at assessing where we are and where we need to be.
He keeps treating this team like it's a veteran away from winning the cup.
I could sort of understand the logic when Lidstrom was still around, but that game plan just does not make sense anymore. This team is clearly in a rebuild mode, and it sure as hell isnt "on the fly."

WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2013, 04:34 PM
  #213
Gorgeous George
Registered User
 
Gorgeous George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Temple Bar
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,794
vCash: 500
When does Tatar's contract expire?

Gorgeous George is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2013, 04:54 PM
  #214
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous George View Post
When does Tatar's contract expire?
After 2013-14 season.

They have used that entry-level slide for 2 seasons in-a-row, so that 3-year ELC has become a 5-year contract.

Henkka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2013, 08:14 PM
  #215
Flowah
#FireHolland
 
Flowah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
It's more like he's down with keeping things status quo. Bring back the vets and rely on what we have. We need to make some drastic moves to implement some scoring punch. Gotta makes trades to add top 6 talent and use our young guys. Gotta prepare to lose Datsyuk and stay competitive.
Well, at the moment, D is our weakspot. By a mile.

Sure, there should be planning for the inevitability of Datsyuk retiring, but first things first and that's Defense.

Where were the moves on that? CC?

Flowah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2013, 02:56 AM
  #216
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Well, at the moment, D is our weakspot. By a mile.

Sure, there should be planning for the inevitability of Datsyuk retiring, but first things first and that's Defense.

Where were the moves on that? CC?
And Quincey.

Seriously, we have seven top-four defensemen, so we may not have an elite unit but it's still one of the BETTER units out there.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 01:06 PM
  #217
wingfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 401
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
And Quincey.

Seriously, we have seven top-four defensemen, so we may not have an elite unit but it's still one of the BETTER units out there.
I'll give you Kronwall, Ericsson, and White as solid top four guys. Quincey, when he's on, is a top four guy, when he's off he is a 6/7 guy. Smith has the talent and potential, but he is still young. CC's injury susceptibility makes him questionable, and Kindl us a fringe 3rd pairing so far. Our D isn't as bad as most make it out to be, but in no way do we have 7 top four guys...

wingfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #218
TatarTangle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
If the Red Wings had seven top four defenseman Ken Holland wouldn't, or shouldn't, have a problem trading a couple of them, a roster player, prospect or pick to attain an elite defensman.

That won't happen

I am in agreement that the defense won't be nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I've been saying they play good enough team defense to make up for the losses in the off-season. When 80% of your team is comprised of two-way forwards you aren't going to struggle that much in your own end.

TatarTangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 01:24 PM
  #219
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
The only bonafide GOOD top 4 defenseman we have is Kronwall

The Rest of these guys, minus Smith, are the kinds of guys who play top 4 roles on bad teams.

Smith, IMO, has the offensive ability to be a top 4 guy, and probably a top pairing guy. But this guy makes brutal mistakes with alarming regularity in his own end.

I think Ericsson may have the ability to grow into a role. Same with Kindl. But I have little hope for Quincey and CC. And White, IMO, is a passenger in the top 4. Not a driver.

Ultimately, that's the problem with our defense. All of these guys can play to a certain degree. But other than Kronwall, we don't have anchors. Last year, we had three.
The year before, we had four with Rafalski.

Over the last couple years, we've replaced
Rafalski with White
Stuart with Quincey
Lidstrom with Carlo Colaicovo

Even though Raffy and Lidstrom and Stuart weren't as good in their final years, that's still a huge downgrade, anyway you slice it.

And that's why we need to trade one of Quincey or CC or Kindl + a forward (maybe even Flip) for a true anchor-type defenseman

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #220
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
If the Red Wings had seven top four defenseman Ken Holland wouldn't, or shouldn't, have a problem trading a couple of them, a roster player, prospect or pick to attain an elite defensman.

That won't happen

I am in agreement that the defense won't be nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I've been saying they play good enough team defense to make up for the losses in the off-season. When 80% of your team is comprised of two-way forwards you aren't going to struggle that much in your own end.
Where you'll see a difference is the PK and teams that forecheck hard.
Our defense can skate, and that's nice. But we're not smart in our own end. We're still not tough, either, along the boards or in front of the net.
We lost a lot of smarts in the last two years.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #221
babcockscowl
Registered User
 
babcockscowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardingsJockstrap View Post
Mike Babcock's got an HF account?
you're darn right I do :scowl scowl scowl:

babcockscowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 03:23 PM
  #222
The Zetterberg Era
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,235
vCash: 515
Tatar sounded rightfully frustrated in the comments that I have seen from yesterday. Seems to be a big trend with Malik's site and the links provided to other people.

If they aren't going to get him up soon they need to trade him, he isn't sitting through another year in Grand Rapids in my opinion. They have the option to hold him down there again next year and I just don't know why he wouldn't bolt for the KHL if that is what they are doing.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 05:34 PM
  #223
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 8,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Tatar sounded rightfully frustrated in the comments that I have seen from yesterday. Seems to be a big trend with Malik's site and the links provided to other people.

If they aren't going to get him up soon they need to trade him, he isn't sitting through another year in Grand Rapids in my opinion. They have the option to hold him down there again next year and I just don't know why he wouldn't bolt for the KHL if that is what they are doing.
You mind posting links to the comments you are referring to?

Frk It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 06:04 PM
  #224
The Zetterberg Era
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,235
vCash: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
You mind posting links to the comments you are referring to?
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...ard-kronwall-a

Quote:
but Tatar wasn't overly thrilled with playing in a glorified exhibition game that yielded a fourth game over the course of the next five nights, but he was happy to make an impression (and both he and Nyquist were excellent):
Used a lot of they and get them ready, not us or part of the organization tones.

Quote:
And she adds a particularly intriguing perspective to the mix--both in her article and via Twitter--because she spoke to one of two prospects who are a little ****** off about not starting the season in Detroit.
Now it could be Gus but like I said Tatar's comments seemed to show a little frustration when reading between the lines. He spoke of it in measured tones and not really the same I am excited to get there way he normally does.


Quote:
Bob Duff@asktheduffer

Tomas Tatar on playing for #redwings: "I don't know how far I am from there, so we'll see."

15 Jan 13 Reply
Retweet
Favorite


Bob Duff@asktheduffer

More Tatar on #redwings: "They looked real good. I think they will have good success in the season."
You can read it a variety of ways, I just worry about where this puts his head. Both he and Nyquist played well, I just wonder if they are getting the feeling no matter what they do they won't be rewarded in Detroit and that worries me. Gus and Tatar should be thinking lets score ten points in the next three games, but it is they won't notice in my opinion. They don't care about forcing us to play four games in five days. Like I said I know a lot of it is reading too much into things, but it was there at least for me and noticed when going through the quotes that he seems less than thrilled.

It is tough on those guys because without camp and preseason games they have a hard time earning spots. But when people say yeah but only for a top 6 or 9 role that sounds good I even understand the point. But keep in mine that is the difference of hundereds of thousands of dollars for these guys. That would get me a little bent out of shape also if I was in their skates.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #225
malkinfan
Registered User
 
malkinfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 3,081
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to malkinfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
Nyquist Datsyuk Samulsen
Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Tatar Filp Bertuzzi
Adbelkader Helm Tootoo
Miller/Eaves
/Mursak

*Trade Cleary for a big physical dman. Ie, Regehr, D Murray, Volchenkov.
5 grinders istoo many IMO. You only need 3, maybe a spare. But then you have Bert and Cleary who are kind of grinders too. IMO 3 skilled lines of good, younger, faster lines + 1 grind line. Not old, slower, physical. Cleary, Bert, Eaves are completely expendable if you ask me. Cleary maybe for his leadership role could be put to use.

malkinfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.