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Old
11-11-2012, 12:00 AM
  #901
Seatoo
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You have a better chance at winning the lottery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
so do the Leafs, without Luongo.
Zing!

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Old
11-11-2012, 06:22 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
so do the Leafs, without Luongo.
Which is what many are hoping for.

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Old
11-11-2012, 07:17 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My interpretation...

MacArthur > Raymond
Connolly > Ballard (because Ballard still has 3yrs left on his contract)
Franson = Lapierre (only because Franson remains unsigned)
Kadri + 2nd = Luongo (only due to his albatross of a contract)


MacArthur, Kadri, 2nd aren't quantity. They are quality assets.
Franson is a throw in only because he remains unsigned.
Connolly IMO is a salary dump.

IMO going the other way, Raymond and Ballard are salary dumps, and to some extent, so is Luongo. Lapierre is a utility player.

So with all that being said, who is giving quality for quantity? You guys had it backwards.
Useful players on a 1st place team (plus an all star goalie) for players who couldnt even crack the roster of a nonplayoff team.

But i know the game, we've all done it ....its called get the allstar on your roster without giving anything that hurts to give ... Highly unlikely in reality


Last edited by NYVanfan: 11-11-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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Old
11-11-2012, 08:00 AM
  #904
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think philly is an outside chance depending on how/when the lockout ends. have a gut feeling bryzgalov might stay in russia

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:18 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
To TO: Luongo, Van 2nd
To Ana: Bozak, Kadri, TO 1st, Van 1st, Raymond or Ballard if you want either
To Van: Perry, Ana 3rd
Hell no from Anaheim.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:19 AM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Luongo for Gardiner, 2nd or Lupal, Bozak, 1st.

fixed
Lupul*

There is no chance in hell that Vancouver gets all of that for Luongo. Gillis is dealing with Brian Burke, the most stubborn GM in hockey, not Feaster or Snow. I will personally guarantee you that Gardiner and Lupul will NOT be included in the trade if he's sent to the Leafs.

I think that if a deal is made it will look something like this:

To Toronto:

Roberto Luongo
Andrew Alberts/ Dale Weise
Low-end prospect (contract dump)

To Vancouver:

2013 first round pick
Tyler Bozak
Mike Komisarek
Cody Franson (RFA)

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:41 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Lupul*

There is no chance in hell that Vancouver gets all of that for Luongo. Gillis is dealing with Brian Burke, the most stubborn GM in hockey, not Feaster or Snow. I will personally guarantee you that Gardiner and Lupul will NOT be included in the trade if he's sent to the Leafs.

I think that if a deal is made it will look something like this:

To Toronto:

Roberto Luongo
Andrew Alberts/ Dale Weise
Low-end prospect (contract dump)

To Vancouver:

2013 first round pick
Tyler Bozak
Mike Komisarek
Cody Franson (RFA)

Not going to say yes or no, but with trading Schenn...how are you moving 2 defensemen? I would rather play Komi or Franson than Alberts.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:18 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I love it when people mix up metaphors.

Anyways, if Toronto wants to trade us a roster player that could help us and may be slightly older than the core(Lupul/Phaneuf/Grabovski) then that would be fine by me. I would do Phaneuf for Luongo straight up, or Lupul/Grabovski + 2nd/equivalent prospect.
If we can hit the bulls-eye then the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate.

Phaneuf and Lupul are two unlikely candidates to be moved. I realize a lot of Toronto fans are attached to Grabovski, and I'll be the first to cite our abysmal center depth as a problem for the team going forward, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved for help in goal.

Particularly if we can line up a deal to bring in another center from elsewhere. Not sure how I feel about it, though. I'm not convinced we currently have a pivot on the Marlies that can step into that top-six role.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:25 AM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post

To Toronto:

Roberto Luongo
Andrew Alberts/ Dale Weise
Low-end prospect (contract dump)

To Vancouver:

2013 first round pick
Tyler Bozak
Mike Komisarek
Cody Franson (RFA)
I'll try and break this down from a VAN POV.

Komisarek would replace Allberts as a #7/8. His contract is beyond terrible and we can't even waive him. Negative value.

Bozak would be our #3C...#3C cost 3rd/4th rounders.

Franson would be our #7/8 competing with Komi. He doesn't have much value to us because depth dmen are still available as UFAs. How much are depth dmen worth? Probably a late pick.

The 1st has value...however a 1st round pick can be acquired after the season ends.

This proposal doesn't meet any of the Canucks needs and actually makes us a significantly weaker team next season. If the issue is dumping Luongo we can do it next off-season while keeping him for this season (if your offer was the best available).

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I'll try and break this down from a VAN POV.

Komisarek would replace Allberts as a #7/8. His contract is beyond terrible and we can't even waive him. Negative value.

Bozak would be our #3C...#3C cost 3rd/4th rounders.

Franson would be our #7/8 competing with Komi. He doesn't have much value to us because depth dmen are still available as UFAs. How much are depth dmen worth? Probably a late pick.

The 1st has value...however a 1st round pick can be acquired after the season ends.

This proposal doesn't meet any of the Canucks needs and actually makes us a significantly weaker team next season. If the issue is dumping Luongo we can do it next off-season while keeping him for this season (if your offer was the best available).
If GMMG took that deal he would be fired within 24 hours.

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #911
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Luongo does not have much value, so those including a potential number one d-man in Jake Gardiner, or top sixers like Mikhail Grabovski / Joffrey Lupul are out to lunch.

He also wouldn't return an established top two d-man like Dion Phaneuf or good prospects like Matt Frattin, Joe Colborne, Morgan Rielly, or Nazem Kadri.

He's also not going to return a first round pick.

Although Canuck fans keep repeating these returns and now that's all Canuck fans are discussing. Not going to happen.

If a trade goes through with the Leafs, it will be:

Cap dump -- Mike Komisarek / Tim Connolly / Matthew Lombardi
Prospect -- None of Morgan Rielly, Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, Matt Frattin, Matt Finn
Pick -- No first round pick

for

Luongo


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:37 PM. Reason: trolling
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Old
11-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by dbaz View Post
think philly is an outside chance depending on how/when the lockout ends. have a gut feeling bryzgalov might stay in russia
Not witrh that contract in Philly he won't.

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:56 AM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Cap dump -- Mike Komisarek / Tim Connolly / Matthew Lombardi
Prospect -- None of Morgan Rielly, Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, Matt Frattin, Matt Finn
Pick -- No first round pick

for

Luongo
If that was the going price for Luongo Burke could be a genius.

He should try similar offers for Hossa, Kovalchuk, Suter, Parise, Zetterberg, Franzen, etc.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:37 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
He should try similar offers for Hossa, Kovalchuk, Suter, Parise, Zetterberg, Franzen, etc.
Different situations entirely and it's so obvious that I shouldn't have to articulate as to why.

Most of those players will be productive late into their 30s. Meanwhile, Luongo just lost his starting position in the playoffs, has a terrible contract, and looks to be on the decline.

In two years, whatever team that acquires him will more than likely be in the same situation the Canucks are in right now.

That reality is going to be reflected in his value.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: trolling
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
If that was the going price for Luongo Burke could be a genius.

He should try similar offers for Hossa, Kovalchuk, Suter, Parise, Zetterberg, Franzen, etc.
And then the Leafs can sign Getzlaf and Perry in the offseason, since Toronto always gets all the top FAs.

But then again, all these acquisitions will have to compete with Toronto's awesome prospects for top minutes.

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #916
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Luongo does not have much value, so those including a potential number one d-man in Jake Gardiner, or top sixers like Mikhail Grabovski / Joffrey Lupul are out to lunch.

He also wouldn't return an established top two d-man like Dion Phaneuf or good prospects like Matt Frattin, Joe Colborne, Morgan Rielly, or Nazem Kadri.

He's also not going to return a first round pick.

Although Canuck fans keep repeating these returns and now that's all Canuck fans are discussing. Not going to happen.

If a trade goes through with the Leafs, it will be:

Cap dump -- Mike Komisarek / Tim Connolly / Matthew Lombardi
Prospect -- None of Morgan Rielly, Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne, Matt Frattin, Matt Finn
Pick -- No first round pick

for

Luongo
Okay then. Luongo will most certainly not be traded for that, as Gillis has repeatedly stated that trading Luongo will have to improve the team in some way. It will not be as a cap dump. And if no other teams see it that way, then we'll keep him for as long as possible.

If Luongo has such terrible value, why do you want him anyways? You shouldn't want to touch him with a ten-foot pole.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #917
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Different situations entirely and it's so obvious that I shouldn't have to articulate as to why.

Most of those players will be productive late into their 30s. Meanwhile, Luongo just lost his starting position in the playoffs, has a terrible contract, and looks to be on the decline.

In two years, whatever team that acquires him will more than likely be in the same situation the Canucks are in right now.

That reality is going to be reflected in his value.
It's almost as if you know nothing about the current situation.

Luongo played great in the playoffs this past season, he was probably the only Canuck playing well. The rest of the team just wasn't scoring/playing well defensively.
They put Schneider in net to shake things up, hoping the rest of the team would respond.

Goalies like Luongo can continue to play well into their mid-late 30s, so there are still plenty of good years left in him. His cap hit is very good right now and for the next few years, and it only (possibly) becomes a problem towards the end of his contract.


If you think he's so bad, why did you even make an offer for him? You make it seem like he's cancer, so you shouldn't want him at all.
To counter your horrible proposal, I offer something just as bad: Luongo for Kessel, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Lupul, Grabovski, and Rielly. All of those players from Toronto aren't worth as much as you think they are because they're overrated by Leafs fans.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #918
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Okay then. Luongo will most certainly not be traded for that, as Gillis has repeatedly stated that trading Luongo will have to improve the team in some way. It will not be as a cap dump. And if no other teams see it that way, then we'll keep him for as long as possible.

If Luongo has such terrible value, why do you want him anyways? You shouldn't want to touch him with a ten-foot pole.
As a Leafs fan, I do not want him on my team. He will most definitely put the team in a tenuous position in a couple of years. Not worth the trouble.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:16 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #919
Vankiller Whale
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As a Leafs fan, I do not want him on my team. He will most definitely put the team in a tenuous position in a couple of years. Not worth the trouble.
So don't bother making an offer if you're not interested. If a Habs fans came and said he'd only trade Gomez for Luongo because they don't need Luongo, he wouldn't be adding anything to the discussion. If you feel you don't need Luongo, you don't need to come here and offer lowball offers.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:16 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
[His cap hit] only (possibly) becomes a problem towards the end of his contract.
Indeed, the last six years of his contract could screw with whatever team acquires him. As you stated above, such reasons will drive what value he has now into the ground.


Quote:
If you think he's so bad, why did you even make an offer for him?
Luongo's value to the Leafs was reflected in my post. If the Leafs decide to make a move for him, it won't include any significant assets. That's the point I was trying to make with my "proposal."


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:33 PM. Reason: trolling
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11-11-2012, 12:14 PM
  #921
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Not witrh that contract in Philly he won't.
Why? Philly has no problems with cash or similar contracts.

Keep trying.

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:14 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So don't bother making an offer if you're not interested. If a Habs fans came and said he'd only trade Gomez for Luongo because they don't need Luongo, he wouldn't be adding anything to the discussion. If you feel you don't need Luongo, you don't need to come here and offer lowball offers.
The Leafs are constantly brought up as a possible destination for Luongo. As a fan of that team, I have certain opinions (backed up by Brian Burke's recent acquisitions) about which pieces GMBB would be willing to part with.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: playing mod/trolling
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:17 PM
  #923
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think philly is an outside chance depending on how/when the lockout ends. have a gut feeling bryzgalov might stay in russia
Russia won't want him...he's the worst performing goalie on his KHL team by far right now (and they are carrying three goalies).

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:19 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post

The Leafs are constantly brought up as a possible destination for Luongo. As a fan of that team, I have certain opinions (backed up by Brian Burke's recent acquisitions) about which pieces GMBB would be willing to part with.
Perhaps the reason they're brought up as a trade destination is because they are willing to offer fair value? If our goal was simply to dump him we would have traded him to Florida at the draft for a bag of pucks. That we still have him shows that no one has met the asking price yet. And until that happens he won't be traded.


Last edited by TMI: 11-11-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
11-11-2012, 12:20 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Third times a charm???


To Vancouver:
Connolly (salary dump, but needed C)
MacArthur
Kadri
Franson
2nd

To Toronto:
Lapierre
Raymond (mini salary dump, still servicable)
Ballard (salary dump)
Luongo

???
Take out MacArthur and Raymond, those two are a wash and I'd prefer to hold on to Raymond.

Take out Lapierre, he's too valuable to our team.

Take out Franson and switch the 2nd to a 1st, and add another prospect. Kadri's value is only declining at this point, he doesn't make this package all that enticing.

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