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Old
10-29-2012, 11:07 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Hjlmarsson is a player you keep suggesting, but is someone Canucks just do not need. Vancouvers defence is pretty much set with Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison, Ballard, Tanev, Alberts. The only defenceman we would trade is Ballard, but his value is to low to make it worthwhile. Bolland is a good piece. I think that if we are trading with Chicago though we should be asking for Hossa or Sharp. I know many Chicago fans do not like this, but they are loaded up front and goaltending would really complete that team. Trading a star for a star is what it boils down to.


Hossa won't waive for Vancouver in all likelihood and Sharp wouldn't work in the dressing room. I like Hammer as we need a shot blocking Dman besides Hamhuis. If we moved Ballard he would fit in perfectly with Tanev, is signed long term and fits our internal salary cap structure. On top of that it would give us hands down the best d-core in the NHL. Most teams limit the exposure of their 3rd pairing...our would say 'bring it we don't give a **** who you have'

Hamhuis-Bieska
Edler-Garrison
Hjlmarsson-Tanev
Alberts

Or that's at least my opinion.



Lets assume Toews, Sharp, Kane, Hossa, Seabrook and Keith are of the table. Who with Bolland would people want from CHI?

And I swear if someone says Beach there should be a petition to get them removed from the board!

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10-29-2012, 11:31 PM
  #77
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There is a vast difference between rumours and useless speculation.

Not a single reporter, radio host, blogger, etc. has even mentioned anything in Edmonton that they are interested in Luongo, and if there was interest someone would be talking about it, especially if an offer was made.

Don't you find it strange all the "rumours" come from the same place?

The Oilers just signed a young goal to 3.5 million, trading for Luongo makes less than no sense on many different levels.


I find it strange EDM was even mentioned at all. That's more strange to me than Botchford driving the bus on this rumour. But then there's also the Tambellini factor: He hitched his wagon to Khabibulin, who is turning 40 in January. So he has no compunction about going with a vet 'tender backing a young team...


Luongo in EDM would be too scary to VAN to even contemplate rationally.



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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
By Botchford IIRC, however this has been dismissed as bs by Bob Stauffer on Oilers Now and he is about as connected to the team as you can get.
I would hazard a guess that this is Gillis playing Burke at his own media games whilst trying to drive up the price for Luongo (and who could blame him?)


Could be.


I'm just reminded of what Rick Dudley said about goaltending, and how it can make everyone play better. It can elevate everyone. The last thing VAN fans want is to make EDM's young players play better... So short of making a competitive offer, EDM seems unlikely. Yet, the rumour reported EDM's offer was the best so... ?

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10-29-2012, 11:38 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Hossa won't waive for Vancouver in all likelihood and Sharp wouldn't work in the dressing room. I like Hammer as we need a shot blocking Dman besides Hamhuis. If we moved Ballard he would fit in perfectly with Tanev, is signed long term and fits our internal salary cap structure. On top of that it would give us hands down the best d-core in the NHL. Most teams limit the exposure of their 3rd pairing...our would say 'bring it we don't give a **** who you have'

Hamhuis-Bieska
Edler-Garrison
Hjlmarsson-Tanev
Alberts

Or that's at least my opinion.



Lets assume Toews, Sharp, Kane, Hossa, Seabrook and Keith are of the table. Who with Bolland would people want from CHI?

And I swear if someone says Beach there should be a petition to get them removed from the board!
I'm not sure why you say Sharp would not work in the dressing room? If anything Bolland has said more controversial things, for example about the Sedins. Either way I don't think Hjlmarsson is enough of an upgrade over Ballard to make this trade worthwhile. If we were to do a 3 way trade with Edmonton where we flipped Hjlmarsson for prospect/forward that may work out. Adding a defenceman at this point just does not make sense unless it is a defence prospect early in development.

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Old
10-29-2012, 11:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Hossa won't waive for Vancouver in all likelihood and Sharp wouldn't work in the dressing room. I like Hammer as we need a shot blocking Dman besides Hamhuis. If we moved Ballard he would fit in perfectly with Tanev, is signed long term and fits our internal salary cap structure. On top of that it would give us hands down the best d-core in the NHL. Most teams limit the exposure of their 3rd pairing...our would say 'bring it we don't give a **** who you have'

Hamhuis-Bieska
Edler-Garrison
Hjlmarsson-Tanev
Alberts

Or that's at least my opinion.



Lets assume Toews, Sharp, Kane, Hossa, Seabrook and Keith are of the table. Who with Bolland would people want from CHI?

And I swear if someone says Beach there should be a petition to get them removed from the board!
Explain why Sharp won't work in the dressing room, but Bolland would? Is there something I'm missing about Sharp that wasn't there with Bolland?

I also think you're overrating Hjalmarsson. How do we get the best d-core in the league by swapping Ballard for Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson may be the better dman, and has the better cap hit, but I doubt the difference is that high that swapping one for the other in a #5 role, to play on your bottom pairing, is suddenly going to vault the Canucks to the best d-core in the game. If you think that, then they are already pretty damn close to the best right now. There just isn't that huge a gap between these two dmen, especially when you consider that it's a bottom pairing spot you're swapping them in.

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10-29-2012, 11:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I find it strange EDM was even mentioned at all. That's more strange to me than Botchford driving the bus on this rumour. But then there's also the Tambellini factor: He hitched his wagon to Khabibulin, who is turning 40 in January. So he has no compunction about going with a vet 'tender backing a young team...


Luongo in EDM would be too scary to VAN to even contemplate rationally.
Tambo well and truly got his ass burnt with the Khabby contract and that was only 4 years. He has been criticized widely in Edmonton for that deal so I think he would think long and hard about signing another aging goalie for twice as long.
Also giving Dubnyk starter money and the opportunity to become the starter only to go out and sign another goalie with 10 years remaining would be pretty bad form.
...and that's not even considering the cap implications in the next couple of years if they traded for Luongo.
Just makes no sense.

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10-29-2012, 11:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
Explain why Sharp won't work in the dressing room, but Bolland would? Is there something I'm missing about Sharp that wasn't there with Bolland?

I also think you're overrating Hjalmarsson. How do we get the best d-core in the league by swapping Ballard for Hjalmarsson? Hjalmarsson may be the better dman, and has the better cap hit, but I doubt the difference is that high that swapping one for the other in a #5 role, to play on your bottom pairing, is suddenly going to vault the Canucks to the best d-core in the game. If you think that, then they are already pretty damn close to the best right now. There just isn't that huge a gap between these two dmen, especially when you consider that it's a bottom pairing spot you're swapping them in.
1. Hjlmarsson is far superior to Ballard, and I think we do have one of the top 3 Dman cores in hockey ATM.

2. I meant Kane not Sharp. Mah bad dawg~

Edit: He has a NMC so it doesn't matter anyways so v0v


Last edited by Seatoo: 10-30-2012 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Derp
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Old
10-30-2012, 12:09 AM
  #82
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1. Hjlmarsson is far superior to Ballard, and I think we do have one of the top 3 Dman cores in hockey ATM.

2. I meant Kane not Sharp. Mah bad dawg~
1. I disagree. I don't see this "far superior" difference between the two. Keep in mind that Ballard was one of the top shot-blocking and hitting dmen in the league before coming to Vancouver as well. You can't just look at individual stats and ignore situations. And even just looking at stats, outside of blocked shots, Hjalmarsson doesn't really have anything on Ballard. Ballard hits more, they both have a negative GAv/TA ratio, Ballard's being better... and Hjalmarsson gets a lot more icetime in Chicago. When Ballard played over 20mins/night in a top-4 role in Florida he was 3rd in the league in blocked shots, and in the top-30 among all dmen in hits, while putting up more offense than Hjalmarsson does.

I'd guess that if you put Hjalmarsson in Ballard's role - cut his icetime from 20mins/night to 15mins/night and line him up in a 3rd pairing role, his numbers would also drop significantly and would end up being considered overrated within a season. Put them in the exact same role - as a 15min/night bottom pairing role on the same team, I doubt that you notice much of a difference between these two dmen... outside of the fact that Ballard does play a more aggressive game.

2. Sharp would actually be a solid player on this team IMO. I love his versatility - he can play any forward position well and brings a lot of intangibles to a team. His $5.9mill cap hit won't fit though... though I'd deal off Booth if I could, to make room for Sharp, if he was available. I think he's a much better fit to build a 2nd line around with Kesler, then Booth is.

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:15 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
1. I disagree. I don't see this "far superior" difference between the two. Keep in mind that Ballard was one of the top shot-blocking and hitting dmen in the league before coming to Vancouver as well. You can't just look at individual stats and ignore situations. And even just looking at stats, outside of blocked shots, Hjalmarsson doesn't really have anything on Ballard. Ballard hits more, they both have a negative GAv/TA ratio, Ballard's being better... and Hjalmarsson gets a lot more icetime in Chicago. When Ballard played over 20mins/night in a top-4 role in Florida he was 3rd in the league in blocked shots, and in the top-30 among all dmen in hits, while putting up more offense than Hjalmarsson does.

I'd guess that if you put Hjalmarsson in Ballard's role - cut his icetime from 20mins/night to 15mins/night and line him up in a 3rd pairing role, his numbers would also drop significantly and would end up being considered overrated within a season. Put them in the exact same role - as a 15min/night bottom pairing role on the same team, I doubt that you notice much of a difference between these two dmen... outside of the fact that Ballard does play a more aggressive game.

2. Sharp would actually be a solid player on this team IMO. I love his versatility - he can play any forward position well and brings a lot of intangibles to a team. His $5.9mill cap hit won't fit though... though I'd deal off Booth if I could, to make room for Sharp, if he was available. I think he's a much better fit to build a 2nd line around with Kesler, then Booth is.
I agree with all this. I think we could fit Sharp under the cap, at least this year, without trading Booth. Trade Luongo and Raymond and that frees up 7.6 mil of cap space. Actually when I come to think of it:

Luongo + Raymond for Sharp is pretty fair value.

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:16 AM
  #84
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Tambo well and truly got his ass burnt with the Khabby contract and that was only 4 years. He has been criticized widely in Edmonton for that deal so I think he would think long and hard about signing another aging goalie for twice as long.
Also giving Dubnyk starter money and the opportunity to become the starter only to go out and sign another goalie with 10 years remaining would be pretty bad form.
...and that's not even considering the cap implications in the next couple of years if they traded for Luongo.
Just makes no sense.


It makes sense from a winning point of view, not a structure pov. Meaning, compromise structure to win now. Tambellini has already shown he values goaltending, and that he's not averse to bringing in aged starters. Further, he's got a young core that's not fond of losing. What better time to provide them with a safety net, and better their development?



You also have to look at it from a UFA standpoint. EDM is not in on the mid-aged + late-aged UFA market because of their recent record. The team just drafted 1st overall again, and I doubt good UFAs view the Oilers as ready to compete... Bringing in an elite goaltender and winning games might change that perception. It makes them viable. Even with a young core.



Lastly, Nonis+Tambellini orchestrated Luongo coming to VAN. If Tambo wasn't a fan, it never would have happened. I think he understands acutely what it meant to reshaping VAN's roster, and what it could mean to teams looking for stability.

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10-30-2012, 12:19 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
1. I disagree. I don't see this "far superior" difference between the two. Keep in mind that Ballard was one of the top shot-blocking and hitting dmen in the league before coming to Vancouver as well. You can't just look at individual stats and ignore situations. And even just looking at stats, outside of blocked shots, Hjalmarsson doesn't really have anything on Ballard. Ballard hits more, they both have a negative GAv/TA ratio, Ballard's being better... and Hjalmarsson gets a lot more icetime in Chicago. When Ballard played over 20mins/night in a top-4 role in Florida he was 3rd in the league in blocked shots, and in the top-30 among all dmen in hits, while putting up more offense than Hjalmarsson does.

I'd guess that if you put Hjalmarsson in Ballard's role - cut his icetime from 20mins/night to 15mins/night and line him up in a 3rd pairing role, his numbers would also drop significantly and would end up being considered overrated within a season. Put them in the exact same role - as a 15min/night bottom pairing role on the same team, I doubt that you notice much of a difference between these two dmen... outside of the fact that Ballard does play a more aggressive game.

2. Sharp would actually be a solid player on this team IMO. I love his versatility - he can play any forward position well and brings a lot of intangibles to a team. His $5.9mill cap hit won't fit though... though I'd deal off Booth if I could, to make room for Sharp, if he was available. I think he's a much better fit to build a 2nd line around with Kesler, then Booth is.
On point one we can agree to disagree

As for point two...whether you have Booth or Sharp the 2nd line needs someone who will pass. Booth, Sharp and Kesler are all shooters. It's not relevant but I would've loved PA Parenteau on the 2nd line...

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10-30-2012, 12:34 AM
  #86
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What's the point of upgrading our 3rd pairing? Ballard - Tanev played great last season.

Hjammer might be a slight upgrade on Ballard but the 3rd pairing would still be limited to the same minutes.

Ballard is becoming extremely underrated amongst our fanbase, he played well last season and stepped it up in the playoffs.

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10-30-2012, 12:35 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
On point one we can agree to disagree

As for point two...whether you have Booth or Sharp the 2nd line needs someone who will pass. Booth, Sharp and Kesler are all shooters. It's not relevant but I would've loved PA Parenteau on the 2nd line...
I agree the 2nd line could use a natural playmaker... I've always been a fan of Clowe to fill that role, but chances of SJ dealing him to us are remote.

Sharp however is a good all around player... a better version of Burrows IMO. Like Burrows, I think he'll have very good chemistry with a player like Kesler. Sharp is a much better passer, playmaker and sees the ice much better overall than Booth.

In a year, a Sharp-Kesler-Kassian line could be great. Kassian has the type of game that IMO will develop nicely there.

I also think that Sharp is versatile enough that he can move up next to the Sedins at times, while Burrows plays with Kesler (who he also plays great next to). Sharp's versatility gives the Canucks more top-6 options overall. Basically they add a better version of Burrows to their lineup - a top-6 player that can play a solid 2-way game with anyone on either wing (and Sharp can play center as well). Throw in Higgins and Hansen and the Canucks could have the most versatile top-9 in the game.

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10-30-2012, 12:39 AM
  #88
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Sharp's a pipedream at this point especially with his new contract.

Fantastic player though. He can even play C if the situation arises.

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10-30-2012, 12:47 AM
  #89
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Personally, I would've loved it if AV had moved Hodgson to #2C and had Kesler play RW. Sadly daddy issues and AV hating people under 30 and who don't have the last name of Rome got in the way of a potentially beautiful thing

What about targeting a true #2 play making centre?

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10-30-2012, 12:56 AM
  #90
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It makes sense from a winning point of view, not a structure pov. Meaning, compromise structure to win now. Tambellini has already shown he values goaltending, and that he's not averse to bringing in aged starters. Further, he's got a young core that's not fond of losing. What better time to provide them with a safety net, and better their development?



You also have to look at it from a UFA standpoint. EDM is not in on the mid-aged + late-aged UFA market because of their recent record. The team just drafted 1st overall again, and I doubt good UFAs view the Oilers as ready to compete... Bringing in an elite goaltender and winning games might change that perception. It makes them viable. Even with a young core.



Lastly, Nonis+Tambellini orchestrated Luongo coming to VAN. If Tambo wasn't a fan, it never would have happened. I think he understands acutely what it meant to reshaping VAN's roster, and what it could mean to teams looking for stability.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Time will tell I guess.

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10-30-2012, 01:04 AM
  #91
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Time will tell I guess.
It'll certainly make the games beween the Oilers and Canucks much more interesting, with the added storyline.

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10-30-2012, 07:50 AM
  #92
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I think Davidson's hiring in Columbus affects the goaltending marketplace.

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10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
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Honestly, if Lindback fails in Tampa I would do a Luongo for Lecavalier swap.

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10-30-2012, 01:01 PM
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I think Davidson's hiring in Columbus affects the goaltending marketplace.
I think this could be the case. Davidson is incredibly respected in the hockey world and I could see him not only pushing Scott Howson to offer a good package for Roberto Luongo, but also convincing Roberto to waive to go to Columbus.

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10-30-2012, 01:06 PM
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I could really see this being the case. Davidson is incredibly respected in the hockey world and I could see him not only pushing Scott Howson to offer a good package for Roberto Luongo, but also convincing Roberto to waive to go to Columbus.
What sort of package could Columbus offer? I really like Ryan Johanson but I doubt they move him. Ryan Murray just went 2nd overall to them and they rejected a deal from the Islanders to move down from 2 to 4 and acquire all their remaining picks on top of that. Maybe something around Derick Brassard, David Savard, Seth Ambroz and a 1st round pick?

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10-30-2012, 01:28 PM
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When Curtis Joseph signed with Toronto in July 1998 the Leafs had missed the Playoffs two straight years and he was a big name Goalie at that time.
All Toronto had to do was over double the salary he was getting in Edmonton

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10-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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What sort of package could Columbus offer? I really like Ryan Johanson but I doubt they move him. Ryan Murray just went 2nd overall to them and they rejected a deal from the Islanders to move down from 2 to 4 and acquire all their remaining picks on top of that. Maybe something around Derick Brassard, David Savard, Seth Ambroz and a 1st round pick?


I don't think so.

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10-30-2012, 01:29 PM
  #98
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What sort of package could Columbus offer? I really like Ryan Johanson but I doubt they move him. Ryan Murray just went 2nd overall to them and they rejected a deal from the Islanders to move down from 2 to 4 and acquire all their remaining picks on top of that. Maybe something around Derick Brassard, David Savard, Seth Ambroz and a 1st round pick?
Sure. I don't think any Columbus fans have been frequenting this thread in a while, so why not?

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10-30-2012, 01:54 PM
  #99
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Sharp-Kesler-Kassian line could be great.
3 lefties on the first line and 3 righties on the second... strange.

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10-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #100
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What sort of package could Columbus offer? I really like Ryan Johanson but I doubt they move him. Ryan Murray just went 2nd overall to them and they rejected a deal from the Islanders to move down from 2 to 4 and acquire all their remaining picks on top of that. Maybe something around Derick Brassard, David Savard, Seth Ambroz and a 1st round pick?


Junior Nelson brings up a great point about Davidson in CLB. It changes the perception there. As well as bringing in hard working talent like Foligno and Dubinsky. CLB is on the rise IMO.


For available pieces, I look at their left side defense, first and foremost. They are stacked there. Maybe Moore becomes available because they have Murray and Erixon in the pipeline. The only right-side D I think they trade is Golobeuf.


Brassard stays IMO. Arniel is no longer there so he should return to form. Further, their C position isn't strong enough to deal him. They have a good thing with Brassard, Anisimov and Johanson down the middle. I think they'll keep it that way.


Moore/Erixon + LA's 1st is a great start to any package coming back. They have the assets. All that's left is to see where Bobrovsky is at in terms of development.

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