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Chicago Wolves Discussion - Part V

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11-19-2012, 09:35 PM
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Schroeder has more points than Kassian, and the same amount of goals, yet Schroeder's a concern and Kassian is our projected 2nd liner (according to some fans on here, not you specifically). I think there's a bit of a double standard.
Kassian's had at least a couple legit goals waived off. Also, Kassian brings a physical presence that Schroeder doesn't.

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11-19-2012, 09:37 PM
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Kassian's had at least a couple legit goals waived off. Also, Kassian brings a physical presence that Schroeder doesn't.
Goals being waived off doesn't help. Dan Carcillo is physical too but I wouldn't advocate signing him to play in our top 6.

I see reasons why we should be excited about Kassian, but I find it hard to denounce Schroeder while praising Kassian at the same time. It's contradictory IMO.

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11-19-2012, 09:49 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Goals being waived off doesn't help. Dan Carcillo is physical too but I wouldn't advocate signing him to play in our top 6.

I see reasons why we should be excited about Kassian, but I find it hard to denounce Schroeder while praising Kassian at the same time. It's contradictory IMO.
So when he first got here you called Kassian a 4th liner, then at the beginning of the AHL season it seemed like you were turning the corner & now he's back to being a 4th liner again?

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11-19-2012, 09:53 PM
  #429
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So when he first got here you called Kassian a 4th liner, then at the beginning of the AHL season it seemed like you were turning the corner & now he's back to being a 4th liner again?
I'd suggest reading his post again.

I believe he used the word 'contradictory' because people are excited kassian has 4 goals, but are down on Schroeder because he only has 4....I'd say that is contradictory.

Kassian is a 4th liner at the NHL level until he proves otherwise. Personally I'm sky high on the kid, but thats what it is right now.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I'd suggest reading his post again.

I believe he used the word 'contradictory' because people are excited kassian has 4 goals, but are down on Schroeder because he only has 4....I'd say that is contradictory.

Kassian is a 4th liner at the NHL level until he proves otherwise. Personally I'm sky high on the kid, but thats what it is right now.
Thank you. Furthermore, the Carcillo name-drop was in response to someone saying Kassian is physical. Just because a player is physical doesn't mean he's ready to be a top 6 forward, as evidenced by Dan Carcillo.

Kassian has potential, but he hasn't shown that he's ready for a meaningful role in the NHL. As a 3rd line winger, perhaps with Schroeder centering him forming a bit of a kid line I could be happy with. Plugging him into our top 6 is a recipe for disaster though.

And yes, it's quite hilarious how some people label Schroeder a bust, yet are all high on Kassian. It boggles my mind.

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11-19-2012, 11:03 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Schroeder has played 46 more games than Kadri buts has only scored 4 more points.
Good for him then. He was taken 15 spots higher - so he should be doing better, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Kassian's had at least a couple legit goals waived off. Also, Kassian brings a physical presence that Schroeder doesn't.
Well, if we're going to go that route, one could argue that JS has had two assists taken away on what should have been goals had it not been for his linemates. So they'd both end up with the same number of points either way.

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:43 PM
  #432
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Kassian was traded for Hodgson, therefore he has more hype than Schroeder.

/end discussion

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11-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kassian was traded for Hodgson, therefore he has more hype than Schroeder.

/end discussion
Ahh I love how we can trade our top prospect for a player and no matter what the player we get back will always be better than our current prospects who are out producing him. Infallable logic right there.

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11-19-2012, 11:56 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Ahh I love how we can trade our top prospect for a player and no matter what the player we get back will always be better than our current prospects who are out producing him. Infallable logic right there.
Although until now Kassian's AHL production has been far superior to Schroeder's.

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11-20-2012, 12:00 AM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although until now Kassian's AHL production has been far superior to Schroeder's.
In another team's system...

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11-20-2012, 12:02 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kassian was traded for Hodgson, therefore he has more hype than Schroeder.

/end discussion
Schroeder is also undersized while Kassian has the size and skill to play in the NHL. If Kassian doesn't become a top 6er, he can still be a 3rd liner. Schroeder is top 6 or bust. And will most likely be the latter.

And y2k loves Schroeder as much as Luongo so he can so no wrong.

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11-20-2012, 12:04 AM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although until now Kassian's AHL production has been far superior to Schroeder's.
Our AHL affiliate is like a vacuum historically for the prospects offensively. The only prospect I can remember in the recent history that has really torn it up down there is Jaffray and Burrows in his short stay down there. Maybe Grabner. Maybe. Though it's hard to call Jaffray a prospect even 5 years ago.

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11-20-2012, 12:17 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Our AHL affiliate is like a vacuum historically for the prospects offensively. The only prospect I can remember in the recent history that has really torn it up down there is Jaffray and Burrows in his short stay down there. Maybe Grabner. Maybe. Though it's hard to call Jaffray a prospect even 5 years ago.
No kidding, if we had Eberle, Hall and RNH in our system they'd only be at around .4 ppg. If Schultz ended up with us, he'd probably have a couple points. I don't get it.

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11-20-2012, 12:21 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Our AHL affiliate is like a vacuum historically for the prospects offensively. The only prospect I can remember in the recent history that has really torn it up down there is Jaffray and Burrows in his short stay down there. Maybe Grabner. Maybe. Though it's hard to call Jaffray a prospect even 5 years ago.
how much of that is due to the fact that we haven't had too many good offensive prospects in the first place

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:35 AM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
how much of that is due to the fact that we haven't had too many good offensive prospects in the first place
Probably has a bit to do with it but Cody Hodgson produced more in the NHL than the AHL, though that could be partially explained due to favourable starts and less defensive responsibility. Zack Kassian comes from Rochester and dips from 0.87 PPG to 0.54. Of course there are a lot of different explanations but there sure is a lot of correlation with my hypothesis.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:58 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Goals being waived off doesn't help. Dan Carcillo is physical too but I wouldn't advocate signing him to play in our top 6.

I see reasons why we should be excited about Kassian, but I find it hard to denounce Schroeder while praising Kassian at the same time. It's contradictory IMO.
I agree, they both have their flaws. I'm expecting them to be good 3rd line scorers and nothing more. Don't want to get my hopes up.

Jensen has legit top 6 potential I think.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:24 AM
  #442
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lol i truly think y2kcanucks is hired by HFBoards to spark conversation on these boards, sometimes it means him taking on a crazy opinion

Theres less concern about Kassian for OBVIOUS reasons. Big power forwards who turn into scorers typically take longer to develop, he has many other tools to use until he secures the spot on the 2nd line, kassians play translates to the nhl and Schroeder is damn small, and typically damn small players need to put up big numbers to compensate, especially in a lower league.

Is this all even up for debate?

Another reason they aren't concerned with Kassian, they've seen him play in the NHL, they've seen what he can bring when he applies himself against big strong and skilled NHL players. There is a small chance in hell Schroeder could bring half of that, especially not now. However if you want to say he could because we haven't seen it, youre reaching

Schroeder has alot more to prove and has yet to and thats the reason schroeder will be in the AHL and kassian will be in the nhl, looks like the GM sides with the people who aren't quite as concerned considering he'll have a spot.

There is 0 doubt in my mind and im sure the whole canuck organization when i say kassian will be no less than a 3rd liner and upside of a first liner. When kassian applied himself, he made his way onto a line with Kesler and David Booth, at a young age. The guy has speed, toughness, strength, decent hands and hugely underrated passing.

Schroeder is completely unknown as of right now and his size and mediocre numbers make it quite a steep uphill battle for him.

Can't believe I was baited into something so ridiculous. Nobody here should truly believe we should be worried about kassian so far in the AHL. Hes a regular on our NHL team.

If you aren't a bit worried about an undersized forward who has yet to show anything in the NHL, then youre crazy


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Old
11-20-2012, 07:54 AM
  #443
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I haven't been able to much Wolves hockey yet this season, can someone tell me why Lack's stats are decidedly meh? Is it just early with small sample size? Is he getting shelled with high shot counts? Is the Wolves D below par?

Lack 2.92 GAA .903 SV% 1 SO
Climie 3.19 GAA .886 SV%

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11-20-2012, 08:08 AM
  #444
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Ive noticed alot of the goals he does let in, are ones he doesnt have too much chance on. If he sees them (and aren't deflected), he'll get them. So im not too worried, i still think he looks good out there. He'll get his stats much lower over the course of the season.

I dont think its much of a concern

He had better stats over the first handful of games and when the whole team started not playing quite as well is when his stats started dropping, definitely think its due to the players in front of him, like on the goal connauton let the guy walk right out in front


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Old
11-20-2012, 10:02 AM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Ahh I love how we can trade our top prospect for a player and no matter what the player we get back will always be better than our current prospects who are out producing him. Infallable logic right there.
I think you may have missed the point. It isn't so much that Kassian has to be our top prospect, but the spotlight is certainly shinning on him. If he doesn't become our top prospect, he hasn't lived up to our high expectations.

I agree there seems to be a bit of a double standard with Kassian, although I haven't made mention of it until now. He really isn't scoring at a very good pace for a guy who we expected to jump into our top 6 this season, it's rather disapointing. I haven't bothered mentioning it since he seems to get a lot of praise in these threads from people that have actually watched the games, where as I have not. I do wonder, however, if people are looking at him through rosey coloured glasses a bit because of the Hodgson trade. Personally, I would have liked to see him score at a PPG pace this season in the AHL.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:10 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I think you may have missed the point. It isn't so much that Kassian has to be our top prospect, but the spotlight is certainly shinning on him. If he doesn't become our top prospect, he hasn't lived up to our high expectations.

I agree there seems to be a bit of a double standard with Kassian, although I haven't made mention of it until now. He really isn't scoring at a very good pace for a guy who we expected to jump into our top 6 this season, it's rather disapointing. I haven't bothered mentioning it since he seems to get a lot of praise in these threads from people that have actually watched the games, where as I have not. I do wonder, however, if people are looking at him through rosey coloured glasses a bit because of the Hodgson trade. Personally, I would have liked to see him score at a PPG pace this season in the AHL.
would have liked to see? its still very early in the season and i would be surprised if hes not pretty close to that come the end of it

its not like other power forwards like clowe lit up the league before they entered the nhl, they dont need to. guys like schroeder do. size matters. and its a known fact that these guys learn to put their size and skill together later on with some nhl experience

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:14 PM
  #447
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Need to factor in the team. Alex Burmistrov is an excellent prospect and player but he currently only has 8 points in 16 games in the AHL. That's primarily because the Jets farm team sucks, not because he's a bad player. Wolves are not exactly a high powered offensive team, plus Ebbett and Haydar who were supposed to be PPG suddenly decided to completely suck.

Considering Schroeder is a playmaker, being tied for the lead in goal scoring is pretty decent. Last year he wasn't far behind Mancari and was tied with Haydar.

Jaden Schwartz, another guy who has been great whenever I've seen him yet he's at 6 points in 15 games.


Last edited by Tiranis: 11-20-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 05:22 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
In another team's system...
13 games is really not much of a sample size... Having goals waived off or a bit of puck luck can make a huge difference over a short span. Bolduc has 9 goals in 14 games - he's certainly not a 45 goal scorer even in the AHL though.

The Rochester numbers are a small sample size too, but I'd probably weigh 30 games in another team's system somewhat more over 13 games in our system.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:34 PM
  #449
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Also, if we're going to use waived off goals as a measuring stick, let's keep in mind that both players have more than enough of those. Schroeder was in on at least 2 or 3 this season.

Basically, I think both prospects have a legitimate chance at an NHL career. I think this whole thing with trying to compare their stats is total ********. Kassian producing less here than in Rochester has everything to do with the teams in question.

Ebbett didn't suddenly forget how to play hockey at 29 and go from a PPG player to one that can't keep up offensively with Schroeder and Kassian, while playing significantly worse in the other two zones.


Last edited by Tiranis: 11-20-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #450
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Anyone have a stream of tonight's game?

EDIT: Nevermind. Found one!

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