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Brooks Orpik

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:17 AM
  #51
nmbr_24
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Crosby wasn't at his best that series. Of course, unlike Orpik, he's 25, generally recognized as best player in the world (I could stop here), was actually effective in one facet of the game in the playoffs, and produced at a better pace than anyone in the league in the regular season despite just coming off a year and a half absence due to a major concussion.

The two situations aren't remotely comparable.
They are comparable, Crosby stunk, Orpik stunk. Crosby is supposed to be the best player in the world, he isn't supposed to make Claude Giroux look like the best player in the world,

My one and only point there was why doesn't Crosby get any critisism of his play while other players are tossed around as players to be traded because they stunk.

I happen to think they are both better than they showed in the playoffs and that is the point.

Orpik will be fine if he is put in a position where his skills are best suited.

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11-02-2012, 12:31 AM
  #52
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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That is why I just can't see why it is even a possibility to trade him for a scoring winger, the Penguins don't need scoring wingers. If you want to trade Orpik, why wouldn't you consider dealing him along with something else to get a better D if you just want to move him?

Just because he was playing on the top pairing at times for the Penguins doesn't mean that is the ideal situation for him. It really looked to me like he was trying to do too much. He needs to keep his gam as simple as possible and when your partner is always on the attack it makes it more difficult to maintain that simplicity.

I watch a lot of Penguins games as well, I live in Pittsburgh, my wife's boss gives us his tickets when he can't make it to a game which is about 8-10 times a year.

I am not a Penguins fan but I am a hockey fan and I really think that either you are expecting too much from Orpik or you are used to seeing him playing a simple game where his partner also plays D.

The Penguins won the Stanley Cup with more players like Orpik, not less. Now they have Orpik as the only guy who plays that kind of game, maybe Engelland does somewhat, but he doesn't play every game.

The thing I will give you is that Orpik sure as heck doesn't fit in the kind of style that the Penguins played last year in the playoffs, but there aren't many D who do fit in with a style like that and manage to look good. If they had Bobby Orr, Brad Park, Larry Robinson, Dennis Potvin, Ray Bourque, and Paul Coffey on D then their style would work great.
Because I can't see anyone else wanting to send that back.

We just disagree on Orpik's performance last year. The truth is that Orpik and Martin weren't terribly far apart in their defensive play last season, both in the regular season and playoffs, and both played their best hockey when they were stabilized by being paired with Letang. But Martin gets crapped on and Orpik gets defended, mostly because Orpik's physicality gives observers one tangible "defensive" positive.

When the Pens won the Cup, they really didn't have anybody else playing like Orpik does now (and he has regressed). They had Scuderi and Gill, who don't go chasing hits and losing coverage, but play responsible, positional defensive games. The Pens have NHL-ready prospects in that mold knocking on the door.

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11-02-2012, 12:40 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
They are comparable, Crosby stunk, Orpik stunk. Crosby is supposed to be the best player in the world, he isn't supposed to make Claude Giroux look like the best player in the world,

My one and only point there was why doesn't Crosby get any critisism of his play while other players are tossed around as players to be traded because they stunk.

I happen to think they are both better than they showed in the playoffs and that is the point.

Orpik will be fine if he is put in a position where his skills are best suited.
No, Crosby didn't "stink". If that's what you believe, then it's pretty clear our views are too far apart to reconcile. You don't stink if you score 8 points in 6 games and win 55% of your face-offs. He was "good" when the standard is "best in the world".

And as I pointed out (and you conveniently ignored), not only did Crosby produce better than any NHLer in the regular season, but he also did it in spite of just coming back from a 1.5 year absence. Conversely, Orpik was inconsistent all last year, and had not just come back after a potentially career-ending concussion.

My criticism of Orpik involves his poor play in the playoffs last year, but isn't dependent solely on it. He hasn't been "2009 playoffs" Orpik for some time.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 11-02-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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11-02-2012, 02:15 AM
  #54
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If he became available, St. Louis would be all over it.

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:21 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No, Crosby didn't "stink". If that's what you believe, then it's pretty clear our views are too far apart to reconcile. You don't stink if you score 8 points in 6 games and win 55% of your face-offs. He was "good" when the standard is "best in the world".

And as I pointed out (and you conveniently ignored), not only did Crosby produce better than any NHLer in the regular season, but he also did it in spite of just coming back from a 1.5 year absence. Conversely, Orpik was inconsistent all last year, and had not just come back after a potentially career-ending concussion.

My criticism of Orpik involves his poor play in the playoffs last year, but isn't dependent solely on it. He hasn't been "2009 playoffs" Orpik for some time.
He stunk on defense, you are right, he did score, but he was head to head with Giroux who scored countless times because of Crosby's blown coverage.

I didn't ignore anything you said, it just isn't relevant to what I was pointing out and that is that Orpik is a proven player just like Crosby is, he was asked to play a different type of game than he used to play just as Crosby was asked to defend against one of the best offensuive players in the world. Neither of them were in a position that played to their strengths. Why is Orpik the guy who is getting blame while Crosby escapes blame because as far as I see, Crosby is a much bigger and more important part of the team and was every bit as responsible for their playoff loss as anyone else, actually, a lot more responsible just as he is for their wins most of the time.

I am not saying Crosby stinks all the time, but he had an incredibly bad playoff series defensively against Philly. The point is that Orpik shouldn't be discarded for an off year especially when the Penguins really lack what he brings to the game, you seem to be having a hard time with that concept because I brought up Crosby's performance as a comparision.

I have watched Orpik since before he was even drafted, he is what he is. He isn't going to get you a scoring wing or a great prospect in trade. I think his best use is as a veteran #3-4 d-man, the kind of guy every team needs to win and there would be an awful lot of takers for him at the right price, but if you want a scoring wing for him you are going to have to include something substantial especially when you consider that Orpik is probably a little overpaid.

I was also trying to point out how ridiculous it is for the Penguins to trade defense for offense. It is the exact opposite of what they really need.

They improved the goaltending in the off season, the only place left is the D. The Penguins are already the best scoring team in the league, it isn't an area they need to improve at.

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11-02-2012, 09:18 AM
  #56
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Stalberg and Montador for Orpik and a guy like Kennedy might work. Although it improves a part of our team is strong and weakens our most unsure part, I like Orpik.

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11-02-2012, 10:40 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I didn't ignore anything you said, it just isn't relevant to what I was pointing out and that is that Orpik is a proven player just like Crosby is, he was asked to play a different type of game than he used to play just as Crosby was asked to defend against one of the best offensuive players in the world. Neither of them were in a position that played to their strengths. Why is Orpik the guy who is getting blame while Crosby escapes blame because as far as I see, Crosby is a much bigger and more important part of the team and was every bit as responsible for their playoff loss as anyone else, actually, a lot more responsible just as he is for their wins most of the time.
Orpik wasn't "asked to play a different type of game than he used to play", though, nor was the rest of the team. The Pens under Bylsma have always stressed quick retrievals by the defense and moving the puck up-ice as fast as possible. A "north/south" game based on fast-paced transition is what the coach has preached since he got here. Here's a link illustrating exactly that:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...t-plan-287294/

The system didn't change. The problem was the Pens' sloppy execution and horrendous goaltending.

Quote:
I am not saying Crosby stinks all the time, but he had an incredibly bad playoff series defensively against Philly. The point is that Orpik shouldn't be discarded for an off year especially when the Penguins really lack what he brings to the game, you seem to be having a hard time with that concept because I brought up Crosby's performance as a comparision.
I'm having trouble with your concept because it equates an underwhelming (but still good overall) single playoff series from a player who just came back from a career-threatening injury to a bad year culminating in an even worse playoffs from a player who had no similar mitigating reason for his performance.

You are comparing apples to rutabagas.

Quote:
I have watched Orpik since before he was even drafted, he is what he is. He isn't going to get you a scoring wing or a great prospect in trade. I think his best use is as a veteran #3-4 d-man, the kind of guy every team needs to win and there would be an awful lot of takers for him at the right price, but if you want a scoring wing for him you are going to have to include something substantial especially when you consider that Orpik is probably a little overpaid.
This thread has already offered a couple of intriguing ideas. But if the right offer weren't there, then he doesn't have to be dealt. Simple.

Quote:
I was also trying to point out how ridiculous it is for the Penguins to trade defense for offense. It is the exact opposite of what they really need.
Not if you believe the player in question was part of the problem, and take into account the drastic drops in performance from other physical defensive defensemen in their early-to-mid-30s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Stalberg and Montador for Orpik and a guy like Kennedy might work. Although it improves a part of our team is strong and weakens our most unsure part, I like Orpik.
Really, really not what I'm looking for.

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