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Old
11-03-2012, 08:35 PM
  #76
Nyquist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
The question is, would you rather have a goalie who is 33 locked up until he's 42 or a goalie who is a UFA next off-season?

I would prefer the security of knowing I actually have that talented goalie for a few years.


Well when you consider the chances of Howard resigning are incredibly high, it's pretty easily Howard.

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11-03-2012, 09:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
A goal differential of +3 goals gives you ~1 point in the NHL standings, so the difference between Luongo and Howard as your starting goaltender is somewhere around 1.5 wins per season, or 3 points in the standings.
Don't really care to argue your overall point either way, but this part of your analysis is WAY WAY WAY off. Statistically a 9 goal differential over the course of a season is closer to 7 points then 3. I can't even imagine how you came up with a 3 point differential unless you just divided the number of goals in a season by the number of overall team points?

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:30 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
Well when you consider the chances of Howard resigning are incredibly high, it's pretty easily Howard.
Especially when you consider how high everyone is on Mrazek these days around the organization. Detroit would be going through the same thing Vancouver is in three or four years with an even worse asset.

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
Well when you consider the chances of Howard resigning are incredibly high, it's pretty easily Howard.
The Hawks thought they wouldn't have any trouble signing Niemi as well, it just takes a little bit of success for that to change.

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11-03-2012, 10:37 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Especially when you consider how high everyone is on Mrazek these days around the organization. Detroit would be going through the same thing Vancouver is in three or four years with an even worse asset.
What kind of logic is that? We don't want player x, because player y might be just as good eventually and we'll have to trade him.

So what if you have to trade him? You get at least 3-4 years of great goaltending as well as addressing your need for a defenseman at the cost of a forward who would be fading out at the same time Luongo does. So you trade Luongo to a cap floor team like Florida for a 7th rounder if you really, really don't need him anymore.

Besides, what Vancouver's going through now is hardly a bad thing.

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11-03-2012, 10:41 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What kind of logic is that? We don't want player x, because player y might be just as good eventually and we'll have to trade him.

So what if you have to trade him? You get at least 3-4 years of great goaltending as well as addressing your need for a defenseman at the cost of a forward who would be fading out at the same time Luongo does. So you trade Luongo to a cap floor team like Florida for a 7th rounder if you really, really don't need him anymore.

Besides, what Vancouver's going through now is hardly a bad thing.
Or you sign Howard to a shorter deal and see what happens in that direction. Guy was in the all-star game last year and aside from a sophomore slump has been very solid. Far from a bad goaltending situation. Funny unloading Luongo for nothing after giving up big things only a couple years earlier seems to really bother Vancouver fans. Interesting how your take changed when somebody else might be stuck holding the bag in a very similar situation.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 11-03-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old
11-03-2012, 10:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To the Red Wings: Luongo, Maholtra
To the Canucks: Franzen, Sproul, Detroit's 2013 third round pick
Swap Lou for Edler and youve got a deal. Id rather give up Quincey or White than Sproul if Edler was coming the other way.

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11-03-2012, 10:48 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Or you sign Howard to a shorter deal and see what happens in that direction. Guy was in the all-star game last year and aside from a sophomore slump has been very solid. Far from a bad goaltending situation. Funny unloading Luongo for nothing after giving up big things only a couple years early seems to really bother Vancouver fans. Interesting how your take changed when somebody else might be stuck holding the bag in a very similar situation.
Franzen is big bucks? How much value will he have in 3-4 years?

And I said if. A big if this Mrazek character outplays Luongo, who could very well end up playing well later like Thomas or Brodeur are.

And no one ever said Detroit has a bad goaltending situation now. The proposal would simply upgrade them there now as well as add a staunch defender at the cost of downgrading a forward and a pick.

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11-03-2012, 10:50 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
The Hawks thought they wouldn't have any trouble signing Niemi as well, it just takes a little bit of success for that to change.
Detroit's cap situation isn't that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What kind of logic is that? We don't want player x, because player y might be just as good eventually and we'll have to trade him.

So what if you have to trade him? You get at least 3-4 years of great goaltending as well as addressing your need for a defenseman at the cost of a forward who would be fading out at the same time Luongo does. So you trade Luongo to a cap floor team like Florida for a 7th rounder if you really, really don't need him anymore.

Besides, what Vancouver's going through now is hardly a bad thing.
There is no guarantee that Luongo will give 3-4 years of great goaltending. It's possible and I think likely for few years, though but still.

Also if the new CBA brings that 'cap hit stays'-thing, it would be lot harder to trade him.

Luongo's contract is longer than Franzen's, and Franzen fills a bigger need now. If he's traded, we would get better value/fill bigger need going for legit top2 Dman.

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11-03-2012, 10:54 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
There is no guarantee that Luongo will give 3-4 years of great goaltending. It's possible and I think likely for few years, though but still.

Also if the new CBA brings that 'cap hit stays'-thing, it would be lot harder to trade him.

Luongo's contract is longer than Franzen's, and Franzen fills a bigger need now. If he's traded, we would get better value/fill bigger need going for legit top2 Dman.
The cap hit stays with Vancouver even if he is dealt again out of Detroit.

The fact is people are very happy with Howard in net and think Mrazek will be ready in a couple years. No big need to pull the trigger on a goaltender, we are just the wrong team. Detroit wants D, Vancouver isn't dealing a D.

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:54 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
There is no guarantee that Luongo will give 3-4 years of great goaltending. It's possible and I think likely for few years, though but still.
And Franzen is somehow more likely, despite being a lower calibre player?

Quote:
Also if the new CBA brings that 'cap hit stays'-thing, it would be lot harder to trade him.
You mean the one where the cap hit goes back to the team that signed it(Vancouver?) Which also applies to Franzen?

Quote:
Luongo's contract is longer than Franzen's, and Franzen fills a bigger need now. If he's traded, we would get better value/fill bigger need going for legit top2 Dman.
Which is why I proposed a three way that ended up with Detroit getting Toronto's number 2 dman...

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11-03-2012, 10:58 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Which is why I proposed a three way that ended up with Detroit getting Toronto's number 2 dman...
The Toronto deal was far more interesting. Especially if you are a big fan of Kulemin. I don't know that Wings management would be all that jazzed about it. Though something to keep in mind is Franzen was kind of a malcontent at the tail end of last season. They might be more willing to move him than we think and his big actual money years are up soon, not that it matters big time with these three teams. I hope they put him with Zetterberg, but I think they still like the Mule and aren't giving up yet.

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11-03-2012, 10:59 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
And Franzen is somehow more likely, despite being a lower calibre player?
Nope, but fills a bigger need NOW.


Quote:
You mean the one where the cap hit goes back to the team that signed it(Vancouver?) Which also applies to Franzen?
Yeah, I wasn't sure how that worked out, and/or how it would work out. Will have to wait.


Quote:
Which is why I proposed a three way that ended up with Detroit getting Toronto's number 2 dman...
Sorry, ain't enough

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Old
11-03-2012, 11:10 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
The Hawks thought they wouldn't have any trouble signing Niemi as well, it just takes a little bit of success for that to change.
Howard has already resigned with us once, we aren't in cap trouble at all, we don't have a goaltender like Chicago had in Crawford behind Howard. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong. I guarantee Howard is going to resign with us.

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:44 PM
  #90
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I think the only major components Detroit would be scouting the Canucks for would be our top three defenders. However, since we aren't dealing them, I personally think the most likely trade would be moving spare pieces to fill out roster spots if Detroit moves a significant number of roster players filling the defensive derth with Lidstrom and Stuart gone.

Then again, don't they have like 18 NHL ready forwards or something?

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I think the only major components Detroit would be scouting the Canucks for would be our top three defenders. However, since we aren't dealing them, I personally think the most likely trade would be moving spare pieces to fill out roster spots if Detroit moves a significant number of roster players filling the defensive derth with Lidstrom and Stuart gone.

Then again, don't they have like 18 NHL ready forwards or something?
17 atm.

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11-06-2012, 01:12 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I think the only major components Detroit would be scouting the Canucks for would be our top three defenders. However, since we aren't dealing them, I personally think the most likely trade would be moving spare pieces to fill out roster spots if Detroit moves a significant number of roster players filling the defensive derth with Lidstrom and Stuart gone.

Then again, don't they have like 18 NHL ready forwards or something?
ALL your top defencemen are belong to US!

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:26 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
17 atm.
Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
ALL your top defencemen are belong to US!
Sure thing, we just need Datsyuk and Zetterberg as collateral.

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:34 AM
  #94
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DRW need an upgrade on defense not a downgrade. Can someone give as a proposal involving a top pairing defensmen to DRW?
You know, if we could get a decent defenseman moving either Luongo or Schneider. I might consider something for Edler.

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11-06-2012, 02:59 AM
  #95
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Detroit is not looking for middle aged guys that played good hockey a few years ago. They have a roster filled with that already.

Schnieder and Edler might interest Detroit as a package. I'd want Abdelkader back and maybe Fournier.

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11-06-2012, 11:59 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Detroit is not looking for middle aged guys that played good hockey a few years ago. They have a roster filled with that already.

Schnieder and Edler might interest Detroit as a package. I'd want Abdelkader back and maybe Fournier.
Done before I posted this.

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:45 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Here is why:

To Vancouver: Howard + 2nd
To Detroit: Luongo, Edler, 1st

Would it convince Detroit fans ?
Not when the cap is about to hit a $10M drop in 2013, not at all.

Even if Edler wanted to sign, we wouldn't be able to afford him.

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Old
11-08-2012, 02:40 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
DRW need an upgrade on defense not a downgrade. Can someone give as a proposal involving a top pairing defensmen to DRW?
Vancouver might be interested in trading Edler for an upgrade at wing and a top D prospect. Something like Edler + Raymond for Franzen + Smith. Obviously Smith is very highly regarded, but I can't see DRW acquiring a true top pairing defenseman without including him in the deal. Close?

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11-08-2012, 06:25 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Vancouver might be interested in trading Edler for an upgrade at wing and a top D prospect. Something like Edler + Raymond for Franzen + Smith. Obviously Smith is very highly regarded, but I can't see DRW acquiring a true top pairing defenseman without including him in the deal. Close?
There's no way Edler's worth that much without a contract after this year. If he had a contract then yeah he would probably get a return like that, but then Vancouver wouldn't be looking to trade him. Also, adding in Raymond is pointless for us.

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11-08-2012, 06:35 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
There's no way Edler's worth that much without a contract after this year. If he had a contract then yeah he would probably get a return like that, but then Vancouver wouldn't be looking to trade him. Also, adding in Raymond is pointless for us.
Well, for the sake of discussion, let's assume the owners get their wish and the UFA age is bumped up a year. This would place Edler in the same situation Weber was last season, heading into his final RFA year without a contract. He could then hold out for a 1 year deal and insist on testing the market, sign an offersheet with another team that Detroit would be able to match, or most likely sign a reasonable multi-year extension with the Red Wings.

Also, Raymond might not have the most value at this time, but he would add some much needed speed to your top 6. He also has good puck possession skills and a strong two way game, so I imagine he would fit into your system quite well. His value may be minimal, but his addition would not exactly be pointless.

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