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Sergei Fedorov

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:51 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post

Your looking at things in an absolute sense. Does Alex Semin have more offensive skills than Bobby Hull on an absolute scale? Yes. But Hull is clearly superior. LaFluer was better than his competition more than Fedorov was. If Fedorov was so skilled and so much better than Lafluer then he would be the won winning all the awards and getting all the point finishes. And don't use the team excuse. Fedorov played on great teams. Defense is important but when the gap is so large offensively I don't think defense can just cover up lack of offense.
I undertstand that.
I just think's kind of hard to rate a guy like Lafleur against a modern player, because Lafleur isn't going to score 56 goals in today's NHL with his game. Maybe he uses all his elite skill and finds a way to change still be head and shoulders above the rest.

But at the end of the day, I still take a world class two-way center with shutdown ability and highlight reel offensive skill over a start winger --

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11-04-2012, 07:10 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by hairylikebear View Post
You do understand that generally when comparing players from different eras, they are compared with respect to their peers, and not to each other... right? You could pretty easily make an argument that Michael Ryder (just as an example) has better hockey skills than Maurice Richard, and that if you put him in a time machine and hurled him back to the 40s that he'd be the one setting the records. But we don't make that argument because we don't have time machines and it's completely irrelevant. What we argue is their impacts on the league, and no one in their right might would suggest that Ryder had anywhere near the impact Richard did.

Even still, goalies back then may have had smaller pads and apparently had no idea how to play the position (best in the world, hurmph), but Guy had to play with a wooden stick, and it's pretty miraculous that he had the sort of accuracy and power that he did using a stick with no flex and much less grip. Fedorov would be a much worse shooter than Lafleur if he had to use a wooden stick.

But still, you're arguing a point of view that no one really bothers with. So a teenager with a handgun could kill a Roman legionnaire, who cares.
These kind of post's should have a Facebook style "Like" button on them.

Good way to put it.

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11-04-2012, 07:17 AM
  #153
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Well let me ask this... where is Mats Sundin on the top players list? He's a guy known to drop fairly low but at the same time accomplished more individually than Fedorov minus a dominant year.

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11-04-2012, 10:26 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Except Gilmour finished 7th in league scoring, 33 points behind Lemieux, and 21 behind second-place Pat LaFontaine.
I'm aware of that. It's not like Fedorov would've outscored them either, or won the Hart over Lemieux (who was 1 vote away from a unanimous ballot IIRC). Performance wise, you could make an good argument Fedorov's '94 season was better than Gilmour's '93. But Gilmour's '93 playoffs were absolutely unreal and he was definitely more valuable to Toronto than Fedorov was to Detroit.

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11-04-2012, 01:57 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
I'm aware of that. It's not like Fedorov would've outscored them either, or won the Hart over Lemieux (who was 1 vote away from a unanimous ballot IIRC). Performance wise, you could make an good argument Fedorov's '94 season was better than Gilmour's '93. But Gilmour's '93 playoffs were absolutely unreal and he was definitely more valuable to Toronto than Fedorov was to Detroit.
Fedorov would have outscored Gilmour. Probably closer to Yzerman's numbers. Ciccarelli is a good point of note; Fedorov's 94 linemates were Kozlov/Ciccarelli, while Yzerman had Gallant/Ciccarelli in 93. Ciccarelli dropped off SIGNIFICANTLY between the two years. Fedorov's 1994 year could quite likely have been comparable to Oates (142) or LaFontaine (148) in 1993, scoring-wise. Probably closer to Yzerman's 137, actually. A good comparative? Yzerman had a comparable season in 1993-94 to his 1992-93 season, but only played 58 games. His PPG was almost identical to Fedorov's; Yzerman scored 82 points - that's on pace for 119 points over 84 games (1.41 PPG, 6th), while Fedorov scored 120 in 82 - pace for 123 in 84 (1.46 PPG, 4th).

While I disagree with the notion of that being one of the top five seasons ever, it's definitely on the list of most impressive seasons. I'd rank it behind Yzerman's 1988-89, but ahead of anything Lafleur did. Few players have reached the level Fedorov did that season, and Lafleur is not one of them. Gilmour's 1992-93 was very good... but not near the same level as Fedorov's 1993-94. Gilmour was 9th in PPG both years, and his adjusted points are about even. So it's hard to argue that his 1992-93 is on Fedorov's 1993-94 level when his 1992-93 was closer to his OWN 1993-94 level... and Fedorov was clearly much better.

Also, Fedorov was definitely very valuable to Detroit; if you don't recall, the reason he got his big break was because of Yzerman's injury. Had Fedorov kept on at his 87 point pace from the previous two seasons, the Wings likely finish 4th or 5th in the conference.

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11-04-2012, 02:28 PM
  #156
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Fedorov's offensive peak has nothing to do with Coffey. It's about the system implemented by Scotty Bowman in order to turn that team into a contender. It's not just his numbers that fell - it was Yzerman's as well. Those 2 became even stronger defensive players and focused more on puck possession and strong systemic play rather than the charges up the ice at full speed they were both famous for earlier in their careers.

In the long scale of things - that's what made them 3-time Stanley Cup champions - I doubt they have any regrets about it.
And it wasn't that crazy an adjustment for Fedorov to play like that - he was simply playing less games than anyone else due to injury. He was still near a point/game for another 3-4 years after the changes implemented by Bowman.

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11-04-2012, 03:06 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Fedorov would have outscored Gilmour. Probably closer to Yzerman's numbers. Ciccarelli is a good point of note; Fedorov's 94 linemates were Kozlov/Ciccarelli, while Yzerman had Gallant/Ciccarelli in 93. Ciccarelli dropped off SIGNIFICANTLY between the two years. Fedorov's 1994 year could quite likely have been comparable to Oates (142) or LaFontaine (148) in 1993, scoring-wise. Probably closer to Yzerman's 137, actually. A good comparative? Yzerman had a comparable season in 1993-94 to his 1992-93 season, but only played 58 games. His PPG was almost identical to Fedorov's; Yzerman scored 82 points - that's on pace for 119 points over 84 games (1.41 PPG, 6th), while Fedorov scored 120 in 82 - pace for 123 in 84 (1.46 PPG, 4th).
Fedorov played in the 1992-93 season and didn't come close to outscoring Gilmour, revision based on assumption doesn't change that. And if Fedorov scored more, Yzerman would've likely scored less. There's only one puck to go around and 60 minutes to play. Have 2 centres (on seperate lines) ever scored 137pts on the same team? I doubt it.

Quote:
While I disagree with the notion of that being one of the top five seasons ever, it's definitely on the list of most impressive seasons. I'd rank it behind Yzerman's 1988-89, but ahead of anything Lafleur did. Few players have reached the level Fedorov did that season, and Lafleur is not one of them. Gilmour's 1992-93 was very good... but not near the same level as Fedorov's 1993-94. Gilmour was 9th in PPG both years, and his adjusted points are about even. So it's hard to argue that his 1992-93 is on Fedorov's 1993-94 level when his 1992-93 was closer to his OWN 1993-94 level... and Fedorov was clearly much better.
Just regular season I agree, but playoffs included (which I personally weight more than regular season on a per-game basis) Lafleur and Gilmour both have arguments for the best season.

Quote:
Also, Fedorov was definitely very valuable to Detroit; if you don't recall, the reason he got his big break was because of Yzerman's injury. Had Fedorov kept on at his 87 point pace from the previous two seasons, the Wings likely finish 4th or 5th in the conference.
I agree, but Gilmour WAS Toronto, they lived and died by his play. My point being, if we award the Hart based on it's actual criteria, it's hard to not chose Gilmour.
Here's an example:http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=105
This is a post showing every goal Gilmour and Andreychuk were involved in, in the 92-93 season after Toronto acquired Andreychuk.

Anyhow, who was better is really just splitting hairs, both players won Selkes while scoring at a ridiculous rate.

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11-04-2012, 04:27 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
Fedorov played in the 1992-93 season and didn't come close to outscoring Gilmour, revision based on assumption doesn't change that. And if Fedorov scored more, Yzerman would've likely scored less. There's only one puck to go around and 60 minutes to play. Have 2 centres (on seperate lines) ever scored 137pts on the same team? I doubt it.
Correct, Yzerman would likely have scored less. But Fedorov scored as such because he was playing a 2C role. Yzerman missed 26 games near the beginning of the 93-94 season, thrusting Fedorov into the 1C role with increased ice time and better linemates. Yzerman scored at a high rate that year as well, but only 82 points - comparable to Fedorov's total output from 92-93.

Fedorov's offense in 93-94 was basically equivalent to Yzerman's 92-93 offense, with Selke defense. Yzerman and Gilmour were very, very close in performance in 92-93, Gilmour with the defensive edge and Yzerman with the offensive.

Quote:
Just regular season I agree, but playoffs included (which I personally weight more than regular season on a per-game basis) Lafleur and Gilmour both have arguments for the best season.
Fedorov had 8 points in 7 games against San Jose (and FTM, he had 9 points in 7 games against Toronto the year before). The Wings were done in by the fact that "reliable veteran" Bob Essensa s*** the bed in two games, and despite playing well Chris Osgood (who should have played all the games, as he was the much better goalie) made a couple rookie mistakes.

Quote:
I agree, but Gilmour WAS Toronto, they lived and died by his play.
While Yzerman was out, the Wings were entirely Fedorov-based. It was almost like the 80s again in terms of how valuable a single player was to Detroit. It's still a travesty IMHO that Yzerman won zero Harts.

Quote:
Anyhow, who was better is really just splitting hairs, both players won Selkes while scoring at a ridiculous rate.
The thing is, Gilmour's Selke is much more suggestive of the "offense-based" win. Fedorov was 2nd in 1992 and 4th place in 1993, Gilmour had never finished that high until his win in 1993 and his subsequent second place finish in 1994. After that, his offense dropped off and magically, the Selke votes disappeared. Fedorov's did not, even after he dropped into the 65-point range. More meaningful offense and a "more legit" Selke win both suggest a much greater season. As if the eyeball test weren't enough.

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11-04-2012, 05:09 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
Fedorov played in the 1992-93 season and didn't come close to outscoring Gilmour, revision based on assumption doesn't change that. And if Fedorov scored more, Yzerman would've likely scored less. There's only one puck to go around and 60 minutes to play. Have 2 centres (on seperate lines) ever scored 137pts on the same team? I doubt it.
Well, maybe not 137. But Pittsburgh had four forwards with over 100 points in '92/93, so how much crazier are we having to imagine here, really? I think there were something like 7 or 8 teammate pairs with over 100 points each that year. Sakic and Forsberg put up 120 and 116 in '95/96, when league scoring was 50 fewer goals on the season per team on average, if that helps make it seem a little less rediculous. Ultimately, I think the Red Wings duo of Fedorov (107)/Yzerman (95) could have duplicated that in '95/96, had they not missed decent chunks of games from the surrounding scorers, like Larionov, Primeau, Cicarrelli, and Fetisov.


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11-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, maybe not 137. But Pittsburgh had four forwards with over 100 points in '92/93, so how much crazier are we having to imagine here, really? I think there were something like 7 or 8 teammate pairs with over 100 points each that year.
A better example is 1995-96, with Francis and Lemieux. Francis was 4th in scoring with 119; probably the best number from a 2C ever. Granted, he had Jagr on his wing, and the PP was Lemieux/Francis/Jagr...

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11-04-2012, 05:18 PM
  #161
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Sergei Federov is extremely overrated. I can't believe someone would fathom to place him ahead of Jagr. That's just sad.
Its a matter of opinion.

Some would prefer a two way centreman that was good at everything, and at or nearly a PPG player during his peak rather then a purely offensive winger.


Fedorov could do anything asked of him in a game, Jagr could creat offense. Fedorov was one of the first guys you put out in the final minute of a one goal game whether trailing or leading... Jagr was one of the last people you'd put on the ice to protect a lead.


Very different players, but one was capable of much, much more on the ice.


Who would you prefer to start your team around, Ovechkin or Toews? I think thats a similar type comparison.

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11-04-2012, 05:19 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The thing is, Gilmour's Selke is much more suggestive of the "offense-based" win. Fedorov was 2nd in 1992 and 4th place in 1993, Gilmour had never finished that high until his win in 1993 and his subsequent second place finish in 1994. After that, his offense dropped off and magically, the Selke votes disappeared. Fedorov's did not, even after he dropped into the 65-point range. More meaningful offense and a "more legit" Selke win both suggest a much greater season. As if the eyeball test weren't enough.
Gotta agree.

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A better example is 1995-96, with Francis and Lemieux.
Hmm... strictly speaking I suppose you're right.

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11-04-2012, 07:33 PM
  #163
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I undertstand that.
I just think's kind of hard to rate a guy like Lafleur against a modern player, because Lafleur isn't going to score 56 goals in today's NHL with his game. Maybe he uses all his elite skill and finds a way to change still be head and shoulders above the rest.

But at the end of the day, I still take a world class two-way center with shutdown ability and highlight reel offensive skill over a start winger --
Does it really matter who would be a better player today? I don't understand how that matters since its really a rediulous thing to argue. On an All time scale Lafluer is on a completely different level than Fedorov. That "highlight reel skill" didnt really help Fedorov produce nearly as much offense as Lafluer. Ill take a winger that leads the league in goals and assists , wins Art Rosses, multiple Harts, and a Conn Smythe over a a great defensive center.

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11-04-2012, 07:51 PM
  #164
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Does it really matter who would be a better player today? I don't understand how that matters since its really a rediulous thing to argue. On an All time scale Lafluer is on a completely different level than Fedorov. That "highlight reel skill" didnt really help Fedorov produce nearly as much offense as Lafluer. Ill take a winger that leads the league in goals and assists , wins Art Rosses, multiple Harts, and a Conn Smythe over a a great defensive center.
Would you take Frank Brimsek or Dominik Hasek?

Brimsek was named either first or second team every year he played except his last season, when he still finished third among goalies in Hart voting. Hasek is widely considered the best ever, but can't nearly match that. Neither can Roy or Brodeur.

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11-05-2012, 12:23 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Would you take Frank Brimsek or Dominik Hasek?

Brimsek was named either first or second team every year he played except his last season, when he still finished third among goalies in Hart voting. Hasek is widely considered the best ever, but can't nearly match that. Neither can Roy or Brodeur.
I hope this leads to another question because it really has nothing to do with my previous post.

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11-05-2012, 08:41 AM
  #166
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Correct, Yzerman would likely have scored less. But Fedorov scored as such because he was playing a 2C role. Yzerman missed 26 games near the beginning of the 93-94 season, thrusting Fedorov into the 1C role with increased ice time and better linemates. Yzerman scored at a high rate that year as well, but only 82 points - comparable to Fedorov's total output from 92-93.
That makes sense.

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Fedorov's offense in 93-94 was basically equivalent to Yzerman's 92-93 offense, with Selke defense. Yzerman and Gilmour were very, very close in performance in 92-93, Gilmour with the defensive edge and Yzerman with the offensive.
Agreed.

Quote:
Fedorov had 8 points in 7 games against San Jose (and FTM, he had 9 points in 7 games against Toronto the year before). The Wings were done in by the fact that "reliable veteran" Bob Essensa s*** the bed in two games, and despite playing well Chris Osgood (who should have played all the games, as he was the much better goalie) made a couple rookie mistakes.
I think Fedorov was an excellent playoff player, but Gilmour in '93 put on one of the all-time great playoff performances. He contained Gretzky for most of the series while out-scoring him at the same time, not an easy task.

Quote:
While Yzerman was out, the Wings were entirely Fedorov-based. It was almost like the 80s again in terms of how valuable a single player was to Detroit. It's still a travesty IMHO that Yzerman won zero Harts.
Such is life in a Gretzky/Lemieux dominated NHL.


Quote:
The thing is, Gilmour's Selke is much more suggestive of the "offense-based" win. Fedorov was 2nd in 1992 and 4th place in 1993, Gilmour had never finished that high until his win in 1993 and his subsequent second place finish in 1994. After that, his offense dropped off and magically, the Selke votes disappeared. Fedorov's did not, even after he dropped into the 65-point range. More meaningful offense and a "more legit" Selke win both suggest a much greater season. As if the eyeball test weren't enough.
This is a good point, but I don't think it makes Gilmour's performance any worse, it just means the media recognized him for the wrong reasons. Coaches, on the other hand, thought very highly of him at the time. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...84&postcount=4

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11-05-2012, 08:44 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, maybe not 137. But Pittsburgh had four forwards with over 100 points in '92/93, so how much crazier are we having to imagine here, really? I think there were something like 7 or 8 teammate pairs with over 100 points each that year. Sakic and Forsberg put up 120 and 116 in '95/96, when league scoring was 50 fewer goals on the season per team on average, if that helps make it seem a little less rediculous. Ultimately, I think the Red Wings duo of Fedorov (107)/Yzerman (95) could have duplicated that in '95/96, had they not missed decent chunks of games from the surrounding scorers, like Larionov, Primeau, Cicarrelli, and Fetisov.
Well Lemieux inflates point totals like balloons, but yes it is not unheard of, just rare.

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11-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #168
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Well let me ask this... where is Mats Sundin on the top players list? He's a guy known to drop fairly low but at the same time accomplished more individually than Fedorov minus a dominant year.
Sundin gets love from people who value longevity and consistency, and who don't discount international play. Also, he gets (Hall of) Fame points for being the face of the Leafs for as long as he was.

The other side of the coin is that he was a compiler with a decidedly lower peak than virtually any of his contemporaries, and the Leafs greatest team success came with him out of the lineup.

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11-05-2012, 02:44 PM
  #169
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I see where you're trying to go with that, but when you realize that they never won a Cup while Coffey was there, but won it the very next year after he left (on the strength of Fedorov's team-leading 20 playoff points, and another Selke for his regular season efforts)...Then, as was already discussed, the hold-out seemed to slow him down a bit. Managed to get into form by the playoffs though, and contributed another 20 playoff points to successful Cup defense. Fedorov has just as much individual success and top level play outside of the Red Wing Coffey era as in it, but has more team success outside the Coffey era. Having said that, the end of the Coffey era transitioned into the Lidstrom era, so... not like anyone around there felt like they had "less help", lol.
Look again, Fedorov won all of his individual hardware during the 3 full seasons that Coffey was in Detroit. He never won an individual award before or after Coffey.

Lidstrom was an elite 2-way D-man, one of the best ever and his emergence probably did help the team more than when Coffey was leading... but he was never Coffey offensively.

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Fedorov's offensive peak has nothing to do with Coffey. It's about the system implemented by Scotty Bowman in order to turn that team into a contender. It's not just his numbers that fell - it was Yzerman's as well. Those 2 became even stronger defensive players and focused more on puck possession and strong systemic play rather than the charges up the ice at full speed they were both famous for earlier in their careers.

In the long scale of things - that's what made them 3-time Stanley Cup champions - I doubt they have any regrets about it.
And it wasn't that crazy an adjustment for Fedorov to play like that - he was simply playing less games than anyone else due to injury. He was still near a point/game for another 3-4 years after the changes implemented by Bowman.
Yzerman's offensive production dropped a little along with the league wide drops in scoring after the beginning of the Dead Puck era.

Fedorov's offensive production dropped off of a damn cliff... and he was 5 years younger than Yzerman.

3 Years before the Dead Puck era (93/94, 94/95, 95/96):
Yzerman: 1.16
Fedorov: 1.37

6 Years after the Dead Puck era:
Yzerman: 0.97
Fedorov: 0.86

Fedorov's best season amongst those 6 years (0.92 ppg) was equal to Yzerman's worst (0.92 ppg).

So, to explain why Fedorov couldn't crack the top-20 scorers (and usually not the top-30 either) in 14 of his other 15 career seasons, we can believe;
A) some 1 year holdout seems to have ruined the rest of his career spanning 12 years.
B) Scotty Bowman, the man who coached him through his 3 career seasons, changed the system drastically more against Fedorov than Yzerman.
C) For a short period of time, Fedorov just had great chemistry with a teammate (probably Coffey) and the moment he was traded... Fedorov returned back down to Earth.

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11-05-2012, 03:49 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I hope this leads to another question because it really has nothing to do with my previous post.
It does. Brimsek dominated the league to the point where calling anyone else the best goalie during his career span is simply ignorant, but he didn't have nearly the level of competition Hasek did. Fedorov would likely have dominated the NHL in the 70s to a comparable degree as Lafleur did, if not greater.

It's like asking the question of who was greater, Yzerman or Lafleur? Yzerman never won the Art Ross or a Hart trophy, but his top scoring seasons beat Lafleur's; especially considering teammates.

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11-05-2012, 04:03 PM
  #171
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Anyone saying Izerman is better than Lafleur is smoking pot.Lafleur's teamates Lamaire and Shutt.Many believe shutt should not be in the hall and Lemaire was never a first or second all star.Lafleur was the best hab ever in many people's mind.When Lafleur had the art ross trophy's there were very few 100 pts players.In the 80's the scoring was a joke.So Lanny Mcdonald and Brett Hull were better players give me a break.Lafleur was so better than his teamates it was a joke.Read Howie Meeker's book Stop it back it up he rates Lafleur as the fifth best player ever and the greatest hab.

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11-05-2012, 05:25 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
3 Years before the Dead Puck era (93/94, 94/95, 95/96):
Yzerman: 1.16
Fedorov: 1.37

6 Years after the Dead Puck era:
Yzerman: 0.97
Fedorov: 0.86

Fedorov's best season amongst those 6 years (0.92 ppg) was equal to Yzerman's worst (0.92 ppg).

So, to explain why Fedorov couldn't crack the top-20 scorers (and usually not the top-30 either) in 14 of his other 15 career seasons, we can believe;
A) some 1 year holdout seems to have ruined the rest of his career spanning 12 years.
B) Scotty Bowman, the man who coached him through his 3 career seasons, changed the system drastically more against Fedorov than Yzerman.
C) For a short period of time, Fedorov just had great chemistry with a teammate (probably Coffey) and the moment he was traded... Fedorov returned back down to Earth.
Things this doesn't account for:

1) Yzerman was a significantly better offensive player; he simply switched from being an offensive player good at defense to a defensive player good at offense.

2) Yzerman played a primarily checking role in 1994-95, with almost no offensive role. His numbers suffered accordingly. If you only use 1993-94 and 1995-96, Yzerman's PPG is 1.28.

3) Brendan Shanahan was acquired in 1996, and typically played with Yzerman and either McCarty or Lapointe. Fedorov played with Kozlov and one of Larionov, Lapointe, or Doug Brown.

Also, I am amused that your sample conveniently cuts off at 2001-02, when Fedorov scored 83 points in 2002-03.

I would say Fedorov was not as good as Yzerman from 91-2000 overall, but better from 2001-06.

Regardless, Fedorov was an absolutely elite forward during that time.

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11-05-2012, 05:41 PM
  #173
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Anyone saying Izerman is better than Lafleur is smoking pot.Lafleur's teamates Lamaire and Shutt.Many believe shutt should not be in the hall and Lemaire was never a first or second all star.Lafleur was the best hab ever in many people's mind.When Lafleur had the art ross trophy's there were very few 100 pts players.In the 80's the scoring was a joke.So Lanny Mcdonald and Brett Hull were better players give me a break.Lafleur was so better than his teamates it was a joke.Read Howie Meeker's book Stop it back it up he rates Lafleur as the fifth best player ever and the greatest hab.
Yzerman's linemates in his best season... Gerard Gallant and Paul MacLean. He outscored Gallant by 62 points. MacLean by 79. And Yzerman double-shifted as the checking center because the Wings were so weak at forward.

Lafleur's best season saw him contribute on % of the Habs' offense. While letting others do the defensive work. Yzerman was in on 49.5% in 88-89, while being the go-to defensive guy. Yzerman's 92-93 season is comparable to Lafleur's 77-78, and Yzerman had a couple of other outright elite offensive seasons without any high end teammates.

Lafleur v. Fedorov is very close. Lafleur v. Yzerman is really not. Yzerman at his peak was playing on the level of Gretzky and Lemieux; articles were being written debating which of the three were the best.

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11-05-2012, 07:16 PM
  #174
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Yzerman's linemates in his best season... Gerard Gallant and Paul MacLean. He outscored Gallant by 62 points. MacLean by 79. And Yzerman double-shifted as the checking center because the Wings were so weak at forward.

Lafleur's best season saw him contribute on % of the Habs' offense. While letting others do the defensive work. Yzerman was in on 49.5% in 88-89, while being the go-to defensive guy. Yzerman's 92-93 season is comparable to Lafleur's 77-78, and Yzerman had a couple of other outright elite offensive seasons without any high end teammates.

Lafleur v. Fedorov is very close. Lafleur v. Yzerman is really not. Yzerman at his peak was playing on the level of Gretzky and Lemieux; articles were being written debating which of the three were the best.
You are clearly sold on these Red Wings players being godly while players like Lafleur were simply great due to the teams they played on but come on...

Lafleur's peak is one of the top 7 greatest peaks in NHL history along with Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Orr, Esposito, Hull and Jagr.

There is absolutely no way Yzerman was better at his peak than Lafleur was. None!!

Yzerman's 155 Pts season for instance is one of the most overrated reasons of recent memory if you ask me.

This was about Fedorov btw, not Yzerman.

Lafleur is usually ranked anywhere between 10-15 among the greatest players of all-time while Yzerman is somewhere in the 30-40 range and Fedorov is in the 40-50 range at best.

The comparison really isn't that close and Lafleur is head and shoulders than both these Red Wings centers.

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11-05-2012, 09:16 PM
  #175
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You are clearly sold on these Red Wings players being godly while players like Lafleur were simply great due to the teams they played on but come on...

Lafleur's peak is one of the top 7 greatest peaks in NHL history along with Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Orr, Esposito, Hull and Jagr.

There is absolutely no way Yzerman was better at his peak than Lafleur was. None!!

Yzerman's 155 Pts season for instance is one of the most overrated reasons of recent memory if you ask me.

This was about Fedorov btw, not Yzerman.

Lafleur is usually ranked anywhere between 10-15 among the greatest players of all-time while Yzerman is somewhere in the 30-40 range and Fedorov is in the 40-50 range at best.

The comparison really isn't that close and Lafleur is head and shoulders than both these Red Wings centers.
Too young to see these players at their peaks, but how can a 150 point season be overrated?

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