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11-09-2012, 10:43 AM
  #1026
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Something built around JPA+Escobar for Andrus? It'd be unreal to get Andrus
I'm not as high on Andrus as most others. Mostly because I feel his production can eventually be matched by Hechavarria, and Escobar himself already has the ability to match his production. I feel those assets are best used in acquiring talent elsewhere.

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11-09-2012, 10:43 AM
  #1027
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Amen. I'll be a little upset if d'Arnaud is the one traded in favor of keeping Arencibia.
Same with me but although I just posted a tidbit from Davidi saying JPA could be on the trade market, I have a bad feeling for some reason that d'Arnaud will actually be the one traded.

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11-09-2012, 10:45 AM
  #1028
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I'm not as high on Andrus as most others. Mostly because I feel his production can eventually be matched by Hechavarria, and Escobar himself already has the ability to match his production. I feel those assets are best used in acquiring talent elsewhere.
Agreed.

I actually think the JPA/Niese centered deal makes alot of sense for both teams.

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11-09-2012, 10:46 AM
  #1029
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AAA depth.
Amazing all this fodder AA picks up can play pro ball. Most of what he picks up have era well over 5-6 and high walks! There whips are usually huge as well.

Don't get it. These guys certainly can't get MLB batters out .

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11-09-2012, 10:46 AM
  #1030
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So you're complaining about signing a guy to a minor league deal and a catcher we picked up off waivers who will end up being DFA'd in the hopes of making our depth stronger?

Every team does this...
Shhh...you're making too much sense.

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11-09-2012, 10:48 AM
  #1031
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Amazing all this fodder AA picks up can play pro ball. Most of what he picks up have era well over 5-6 and high walks! There whips are usually huge as well.

Don't get it. These guys certainly can't get MLB batters out .
-_- ERA and whip, eh.

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11-09-2012, 10:50 AM
  #1032
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Agreed.

I actually think the JPA/Niese centered deal makes alot of sense for both teams.
Agreed. Unfortunately, I think it makes more sense for the Jays than the Mets. Pitching is just so hard to get.

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11-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #1033
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Agreed. Unfortunately, I think it makes more sense for the Jays than the Mets. Pitching is just so hard to get.
Yep we'd most likely need to add but dont underestimate the JP Ricciardi factor.

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11-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #1034
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Agreed.

I actually think the JPA/Niese centered deal makes alot of sense for both teams.
Makes more sense for the Jays than Mets. Niese is a #3 guy with a favourable contract and I don't think they would trade him for JPA... JPA is just okay. Would also close one hole and open another for the Mets.

I think JPA as one of the trade piece for a guy like Garza makes sense.

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11-09-2012, 11:00 AM
  #1035
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Makes more sense for the Jays than Mets. Niese is a #3 guy with a favourable contract and I don't think they would trade him for JPA... JPA is just okay. Would also close one hole and open another for the Mets.

I think JPA as one of the trade piece for a guy like Garza makes sense.
I wouldn't trade a catcher with 4 years of control for a starter with only 1.

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11-09-2012, 11:01 AM
  #1036
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Makes more sense for the Jays than Mets. Niese is a #3 guy with a favourable contract and I don't think they would trade him for JPA... JPA is just okay. Would also close one hole and open another for the Mets.

I think JPA as one of the trade piece for a guy like Garza makes sense.
JPA was also drafted by Ricciardi and they need a catcher. I said in all my posts that we would most likely need to add but I wouldnt underestimate those 2 things. We watch JPA everyday and see his deficiencies but I bet theres some dumb GM's out there that look at his power numbers and think hes really good. I want the guy traded but I also wouldnt be suprised if his value amongst some gm's is more then we think.

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11-09-2012, 11:03 AM
  #1037
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So you're complaining about signing a guy to a minor league deal and a catcher we picked up off waivers who will end up being DFA'd in the hopes of making our depth stronger?

Every team does this...
Yea. This is how i see it. Blue jays won back to back world series in the 90's. Blue Jays had the top payroll in the league. AA's 9 million to Izturis (SP/ depth non the less) is the most hes spent in his tenure as a GM. I dont get the sense of optimism around here when there isnt any hint or sign of commitment to winning within this team. So we can chat about our depth to death, or we can put a little bit of pressure on the team thats actually had the longest playoff droubt out of all Toronto teams.

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11-09-2012, 11:06 AM
  #1038
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I wouldn't trade a catcher with 4 years of control for a starter with only 1.
It depends on whether Jays think they can sign him or not.

Good trade target though. Young, proven in the AL East, throws hard and he is durable (though he missed a lot of the season last year so that will hurt his value).

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11-09-2012, 11:07 AM
  #1039
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Yea. This is how i see it. Blue jays won back to back world series in the 90's. Blue Jays had the top payroll in the league. AA's 9 million to Izturis (SP/ depth non the less) is the most hes spent in his tenure as a GM. I dont get the sense of optimism around here when there isnt any hint or sign of commitment to winning within this team. So we can chat about our depth to death, or we can put a little bit of pressure on the team thats actually had the longest playoff droubt out of all Toronto teams.
Its also the only Toronto team who has won a championship in the last 20 years, maybe they are doing something better then the rest.

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11-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #1040
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
-_- ERA and whip, eh.
If you hadn't noticed, the best pitchers have lower ERA's and WHIPs.

Suffice to say, if you have a 6+ era and you've pitched more than a few innings, you are a ****** pitcher. There really is no way around it.

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11-09-2012, 11:10 AM
  #1041
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Its also the only Toronto team who has won a championship in the last 20 years, maybe they are doing something better then the rest.
Oh, that's definitely true.

The Jays have missed the playoffs 18 straight seasons

The Leafs and Raps haven't even reached 10!

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11-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #1042
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Oh, that's definitely true.

The Jays have missed the playoffs 18 straight seasons

The Leafs and Raps haven't even reached 10!
you should compare winning % over the last 20 years and see who the top performer is.

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11-09-2012, 11:14 AM
  #1043
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Yea. This is how i see it. Blue jays won back to back world series in the 90's. Blue Jays had the top payroll in the league. AA's 9 million to Izturis (SP/ depth non the less) is the most hes spent in his tenure as a GM. I dont get the sense of optimism around here when there isnt any hint or sign of commitment to winning within this team. So we can chat about our depth to death, or we can put a little bit of pressure on the team thats actually had the longest playoff droubt out of all Toronto teams.
Jays have been re-building under AA and he hasn't seen the need to go out and spend big on the FA market when you are a mediocre team. You become a good team first then you go out and sign FA(s) to push your team over the top. BTW, Jays offered Beltran 3/39 last off-season, better than what he got and yet, he still didn't want to sign here because Toronto isn't that attractive to a lot of FA.

Just because AA hasn't spent on the FA market doesn't mean he hasn't spent money, he has spent money re-signing his core players (Jose/Edwin/Morrow/Romero/Yunel/Janssen) and has acquired a lot of talent through the trades. He is now spending money on the FA market because he sees that core and he likes it, he likes the players coming up through the system and now Jays can start filling out some holes they have.

It's unreal how people can be b******* at this point. FA has just began, and AA is one of the few guys that has actually done something on the FA market and trade market yet people are still complaining because we haven't signed an Anibal Sanchez yet. When the off-season ends and AA hasn't filled the holes through FA or trade market, then you can moan and b**** all you want and I'll do it along with you. But until then, gave him some time. FA just began!

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11-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #1044
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Makes more sense for the Jays than Mets. Niese is a #3 guy with a favourable contract and I don't think they would trade him for JPA... JPA is just okay. Would also close one hole and open another for the Mets.

I think JPA as one of the trade piece for a guy like Garza makes sense.
Yes you can use JPA plus some prospects to pry Garza and Desjesus away from the Cubs. That would fill the #2 role and LF while only losing JPA off the MLB roster with a better player waiting in the wings

The Jays have pitching depth and the Cubs need young quality prospects. Most teams are looking for close to ready prospects but the Cubs system can use all sorts of prospects so going to High A for a pitcher would be ok cause the Cubs need good prospects.

You then move Escobar for more pitching and you got something brewing.


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Old
11-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #1045
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
you should compare winning % over the last 20 years and see who the top performer is.
You can't do that, baseball doesn't have ties or overtime losses, which both provide points required in order to make the playoffs.

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11-09-2012, 11:24 AM
  #1046
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Yes you can use JPA plus some prospects to pry Garza and Desjesus away from the Cubs. That would fill the #2 role and LF while only losing JPA off the MLB roster with a better player waiting in the wings

The Jays have pitching depth with the Cubs need young quality prospects and that would be the easiest deal out there. Most teams are looking for close to ready prospects but the Cubs system can use all sorts of prospects so going to High A for a pitcher would be ok cause the Cubs need good prospects.

You then move Escobar for more pitching and you got something brewing.
I doubt AA actually pulls on the trigger for a legit starting pitcher. I mean, just this past season he balked on the price for Gio Gonzalez, who is probably going to win the NL Cy Young (oops), because our prospects are to valuable . Additionally, he wouldn't pay up for Mat Latos, who pitched amazingly for the Reds. Both those pitchers greatly contributed to their teams postseason births...meanwhile, the Jays and their prospects were on the outside looking in...again.

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11-09-2012, 11:26 AM
  #1047
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You can't do that, baseball doesn't have ties or overtime losses, which both provide points required in order to make the playoffs.
What?

A loss is a loss no matter if it comes in overtime or a shootout.

It's absolutely hilarious how you always defend the job Burke has done but continually take jabs at AA for the work hes done.

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11-09-2012, 11:28 AM
  #1048
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Jays have been re-building under AA and he hasn't seen the need to go out and spend big on the FA market when you are a mediocre team. You become a good team first then you go out and sign FA(s) to push your team over the top. BTW, Jays offered Beltran 3/39 last off-season, better than what he got and yet, he still didn't want to sign here because Toronto isn't that attractive to a lot of FA.

Just because AA hasn't spent on the FA market doesn't mean he hasn't spent money, he has spent money re-signing his core players (Jose/Edwin/Morrow/Romero/Yunel/Janssen) and has acquired a lot of talent through the trades. He is now spending money on the FA market because he sees that core and he likes it, he likes the players coming up through the system and now Jays can start filling out some holes they have.

It's unreal how people can be b******* at this point. FA has just began, and AA is one of the few guys that has actually done something on the FA market and trade market yet people are still complaining because we haven't signed an Anibal Sanchez yet. When the off-season ends and AA hasn't filled the holes through FA or trade market, then you can moan and b**** all you want and I'll do it along with you. But until then, gave him some time. FA just began!
Truth.

For all the whiners out there... AA and the Jays have made the only big FA signing of the offseason thus far (ie not a minor league depth move or a player who didn't change teams).

What more can you expect at this point? If you were a fan of the Yankees or Dodgers would you be *****ing right now as well because they haven't signed anybody of significance?

Let's settle down and let the chips start to fall and see how AA makes out. If the offseason is fruitless and we go into spring training with a mediocre rotation.... then you have full license to go off the reservation and denounce your allegiance to the Toronto Blue Jays.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #1049
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What?

A loss is a loss no matter if it comes in overtime or a shootout.

It's absolutely hilarious how you always defend the job Burke has done but continually take jabs at AA for the work hes done.
Yeah but Burke has signed FA like Komisarek, Connolly, Armstrong. AA hasn't pissed away money like that and therefore, he sucks.

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11-09-2012, 11:34 AM
  #1050
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I doubt AA actually pulls on the trigger for a legit starting pitcher. I mean, just this past season he balked on the price for Gio Gonzalez, who is probably going to win the NL Cy Young (oops), because our prospects are to valuable . Additionally, he wouldn't pay up for Mat Latos, who pitched amazingly for the Reds. Both those pitchers greatly contributed to their teams postseason births...meanwhile, the Jays and their prospects were on the outside looking in...again.
In case you forgot... there were a number of teams that had no interest in GG or Latos.

The teams that got them paid a massive haul to get each guy. And despite what the W-L numbers and era say, and what you've derived from your paltry analysis.. I'm not convinced GG would survive in the AL East.

Further to that... sure those guys contributed to their teams playoff births, but so did Bryce Harper, Steven Strasburg, Adam Laroche, Jayson Werth, Bronson Arroyo, Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips etc.

The way that the season unfolded this year... either of those pitchers wouldn't have made a lick of a difference given the hand the jays were dealt regarding injuries etc. Last time I checked GG and Mat Latos don't hold MD's.

The time is now, AA has a good understanding of how the current core is going to function and what he needs to add. Give it some time.

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