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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Fehr and Jacobs

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Old
11-03-2012, 03:34 PM
  #1
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Fehr and Jacobs

Honestly, how much quicker would a deal get done if Donald Fehr and Jeremy Jacobs were removed from their respective roles in the negotiations?

My level of distaste for these two individuals grows daily…. To be fair I never had much respect for either man after what Jacobs did to (or didn't do for) the Bruins in the 80’s and 90’s and what Fehr did to baseball during the same time. Both men seem hell bent on ruining the sport that makes them both very wealthy men.

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11-03-2012, 03:39 PM
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Depends who stepped in for them.

But yes, I agree that these two are huge impediments to dropping the puck. Jacobs is a notorious cheapskate who will drown the baby in the tub if its mother won't give him a nickel he doesn't really need and Fehr seems to seek conflict rather than conflict resolution.

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11-03-2012, 03:41 PM
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I'm not sure you should confuse the person Fehr with the tactics he uses.

His tactic is to delay and say no, while convincing the players that the league are insulting them with their offers to keep the players battle morale high. If possible try to get labor boards involved.

While he no doubt is very frustrating to deal with because of the tactics he uses, I'm not sure we should assume that tells us all that much about him as person.

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11-03-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Depends who stepped in for them.

But yes, I agree that these two are huge impediments to dropping the puck. Jacobs is a notorious cheapskate who will drown the baby in the tub if its mother won't give him a nickel he doesn't really need and Fehr seems to seek conflict rather than conflict resolution.
If the reports are true and Jacobs is indeed the "voice" of the owners then I have very little faith that he and Fehr will get a deal done.

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11-03-2012, 03:47 PM
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I wish they'd let Daly and Steve Fehr do the negotiations. They're the only two interested in getting things done. Bettman and Don are only interested in playing chicken and pointing fingers.

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11-03-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm not sure you should confuse the person Fehr with the tactics he uses.

His tactic is to delay and say no, while convincing the players that the league are insulting them with their offers to keep the players battle morale high. If possible try to get labor boards involved.

While he no doubt is very frustrating to deal with because of the tactics he uses, I'm not sure we should assume that tells us all that much about him as person.
He is someone who cares only about getting the players as much money as possible no matter what damage it does to the long term success of the league. As a fan of hockey it's hard to respect a man with that much disregard for the sport as a whole. Same goes for Mr. Jacobs.

I would like to assume that both men understand that the long term continued success of the league equals more money for both the players and owners. I would like to assume this fact to be true but their actions both in this and past negotiations says otherwise.


Last edited by du5566*: 11-03-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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11-03-2012, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
If the reports are true and Jacobs is indeed the "voice" of the owners then I have very little faith that he and Fehr will get a deal done.
Jeremy and Snyder from Philadelphia are the reason behind the lockout. 100 percent. Fehr was only brought in because the players figured out long before most of this board that those two are the ones who love lockouts.

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11-03-2012, 03:52 PM
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Being selfish is only an insult because so many people are ignorant of their own motivations.

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11-03-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Being selfish is only an insult because so many people are ignorant of their own motivations.
I wouldn't call it "selfishness"..... I would call it cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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11-03-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Honestly, how much quicker would a deal get done if Donald Fehr and Jeremy Jacobs were removed from their respective roles in the negotiations?

My level of distaste for these two individuals grows daily…. To be fair I never had much respect for either man after what Jacobs did to (or didn't do for) the Bruins in the 80’s and 90’s and what Fehr did to baseball during the same time. Both men seem hell bent on ruining the sport that makes them both very wealthy men.

That still leaves Proskauer Rose's Batterman to devise the NHL's lockout strategy. Bettman worked at this firm in the 70's.


Methinks you've not cast a wide enough net.


Moreover some media source has hinted that 20 NHL teams aren't in the current hard line camp, and Jacobs may be one of those. Boston doesn't seem to have a lot of large legacy contracts (per a quick scan of CapGeek).

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11-03-2012, 04:06 PM
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I wouldn't call it "selfishness"..... I would call it cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm sure if the players were worried about killing the game they love, they'd reconsider they position. I don't reckon they believe that will happen. By all means I'd encourage you all to call their bluff, but no one actually wants to. I'll sure as hell be here when this is all over.

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11-03-2012, 04:17 PM
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Since it's the owners that tell Bettman they want a lockout and etc, let's say 29 teams saw a deal from the NHLPA they thought was fair and Jeremy Jacobs was the only one that didn't like it. Would Bettman listen to the majority and go ahead with it or listen to Jacobs and say no deal? The reason I ask is because it's the owners that tell Bettman what to do and wouldn't he listen to them, even if one of them didn't like it.

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11-03-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I'm sure if the players were worried about killing the game they love, they'd reconsider they position. I don't reckon they believe that will happen. By all means I'd encourage you all to call their bluff, but no one actually wants to. I'll sure as hell be here when this is all over.
The players are paying Fehr to do a job and for now they stand united behind him. My only real hope in all of this is that Fehr won't be able to hold them together much longer because I do truly believe that the majority of the NHL players care deeply about the game.

And the NHL doesn't need to worry about those of us fans posting on HFBOARDS.... We are and always will be there for the league. It's the casual fan, the fan that can take the sport to the next level, help it land major TV deals and compete with the other major sports; that the league needs to be worried about.


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11-03-2012, 04:20 PM
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The problem with Bettmans owner gag order is that we have no idea of the real dynamic taking place amongst the disparate ownership group. For years people have been pointing out that the real nature of this cba's battle is amongst owners themselves. To work out a sustainable business model where as a joint venture with fiduciary responsibility for each others well-being, they exercise that like the revenue sharing leagues they are holding up as pattern bargaining precedents.

It would truly be interesting to find out the true nature of the hawk/dove/other owner positions in play. It has been a great league propaganda success that such speculation does not take place. But without that info, i dont know how to answer the op's question.

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11-03-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
That still leaves Proskauer Rose's Batterman to devise the NHL's lockout strategy. Bettman worked at this firm in the 70's.


Methinks you've not cast a wide enough net.


Moreover some media source has hinted that 20 NHL teams aren't in the current hard line camp, and Jacobs may be one of those. Boston doesn't seem to have a lot of large legacy contracts (per a quick scan of CapGeek).
Point taken.... A lot of what I am reading though says that not only is Jacobs in that camp but he is leading the charge as he did during the last lockout. A lot of local reports say its Jacobs, Bettman and few other owners forcing the issue. I would like to think that Jacobs is worried about his own teams cap situation but in the last lockout he showed very little regard for his own team in comparison to "getting a good deal." And the Bruins suffered mightily for it coming out of the lockout.


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11-03-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
The problem with Bettmans owner gag order is that we have no idea of the real dynamic taking place amongst the disparate ownership group. For years people have been pointing out that the real nature of this cba's battle is amongst owners themselves. To work out a sustainable business model where as a joint venture with fiduciary responsibility for each others well-being, they exercise that like the revenue sharing leagues they are holding up as pattern bargaining precedents.
I wonder how many of the owners actually want revenue sharing? Do you think that Bell & Rogers like that the Maple Leafs have to give money to teams like Phoenix, even though they made the Playoffs the last three seasons and still need it. I thought teams who make the Playoffs make a lot of $ from home Playoff dates which is why I use Phoenix as an example.

Plus I can't see Ed Snider being ok with the Flyers doing the same thing. For example I'm sure Snider had to give his approval for Paul Holmgren to give Shea Weber that 14 year offer sheet knowing how Nashville is a small market team and he thought they won't match a deal as long as that. However his concern is making the Flyers a winning team and didn't care how it would hurt Nashville.


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11-03-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Jeremy and Snyder from Philadelphia are the reason behind the lockout. 100 percent. Fehr was only brought in because the players figured out long before most of this board that those two are the ones who love lockouts.
I've read that a lot about Snider, but I can't see why he would be behind the lockout. At all. If he could, he'd gladly spend $90-100 million per season if it meant the Flyers had a better shot at winning the cup again while he's still alive and well.

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11-03-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I wonder how many of the owners actually want revenue sharing? Do you think that Bell & Rogers like that the Maple Leafs have to give money to teams like Phoenix, even though they made the Playoffs the last three seasons and still need it. I thought teams who make the Playoffs make a lot of $ from home Playoff dates which is why I use Phoenix as an example.

Plus I can't see Ed Snider being ok with the Flyers doing the same thing. For example I'm sure Snider have his approval for Paul Holmgren to give Shea Weber that 14 year offer sheet knowing how Nashville is a small market team and he thought they won't match a deal as long as that. However his concern is making the Flyers a winning team and didn't care how it would hurt Nashville.
Haha, the ownership group is a fickle bunch. They want to lower the cap and put a max on contract years but yet they offer all these crazy contracts. They want a major TV deal which will require the league to have teams in major TV markets like Phoenix yet they don’t want to share money to help make those teams successful.


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11-03-2012, 04:40 PM
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If the players start taking a smaller percentage of revenues going forward, MLSE and Comcasts revenues arent likely to drop. Yet they will have windfall new profits going forward. And they want to argue that they should not be obligated to share these new windfall revenues, that have come about by centrally negotiating salary reductions, with all their partners to solidify the stability of the league because .. what, because they take all the risk that the money they held in escrow was in a bank that lost all its money from an unregulated derivatives trader? Well i guess that is a risk.

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11-03-2012, 04:42 PM
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I've read that a lot about Snider, but I can't see why he would be behind the lockout. At all. If he could, he'd gladly spend $90-100 million per season if it meant the Flyers had a better shot at winning the cup again while he's still alive and well.
Spending money on players has nothing to do with giving part of your profits to struggling franchises.

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11-03-2012, 05:10 PM
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11-03-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Definition View Post
I wish they'd let Daly and Steve Fehr do the negotiations. They're the only two interested in getting things done. Bettman and Don are only interested in playing chicken and pointing fingers.
I wouldn't make that mistake. Both the PA and NHL have a good cop bad cop routine going, with Daly and S Fehr cast as the good cops. There's very little distinction in the goals and intentions between these guys and their immediate bosses. In Steve Fehr's case, there's basically none.

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11-03-2012, 05:22 PM
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The problem I have with Fehr is not that he's tough.

The players wanted a tough negotiator, fine. That's well within their rights.

The problem I have is that he's using time as a bargaining chip, and it's mostly blown up in his face.

He thought by starting the negotiating late he could force concessions from the owners, he thought be pressing up against the Winter Classic he could get more.

This guy doesn't give a crap that games have to be cancelled, it's just a negotiating tactic for him ... one which isn't working.

The whole bit about being "insulted" by the first offer, c'mon, lol. This guy probably doesn't even give a crap about hockey and wasn't watching it 2 years ago. He knows damn well the first offer is just to get the ball rolling, they make one unrealistic proposal, you fire one back, and the process starts.

His plan was always to purposely not respond for an extended period to try and make the owners sweat.

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11-03-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm not sure you should confuse the person Fehr with the tactics he uses.

His tactic is to delay and say no, while convincing the players that the league are insulting them with their offers to keep the players battle morale high. If possible try to get labor boards involved.

While he no doubt is very frustrating to deal with because of the tactics he uses, I'm not sure we should assume that tells us all that much about him as person.
I've dealt with people like him. Not nearly of the notoriety, but he's the type of labor boss whose priorities are as follows

1) Personal reputation (effectiveness, not popularity)
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2) the interests of the union
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3) the interests of the union's membership
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4) The streetlight down the block looks like the bulb might be going
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5) health of the business

While it could be argued that #5 isn't his business, in the case where #s 2 and 3 are dependent variables with 5, it's something he should consider of paramount importance, but doesn't.

Generally I'm far more sympathetic to labor than I am to the hooligan gallery that runs organizations like the NHL. Guys like Bettman are usually slime. Guys like Daly are usually far, far worse.

In this specific case, I was sympathetic to the players right up until the point I saw the spin Fehr was putting on the "82 game" offer to the membership (which was especially bad, considering they've already lost more than they would have had they accepted as-is, let alone tried to tweak the make-whole...and none of them seem to be aware of this...or aware of the fact that the 20% salary rollback request has been MIA for months).

Fehr's list of priorities is, imo, upside-down (apart from #4 of course), antithetical to the interests of the fan and somewhat counterproductive for the common NHLer.

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11-03-2012, 05:32 PM
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Jeremy and Snyder from Philadelphia are the reason behind the lockout. 100 percent. Fehr was only brought in because the players figured out long before most of this board that those two are the ones who love lockouts.
And you know this how?

So it couldn't be from the other 1/3 of the league who isn't in great shape? Instead it's from two of the richest owners who's teams are doing great.

If that was the case, the other owners would have dealt with it. Bettman needs at least 8 owners on side with him. This lockout isn't because of 2 or 3 owners who are being cheap skates.

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