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what do you think is the reason the Isles lose money?

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:16 PM
  #1
Riddick
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what do you think is the reason the Isles lose money?

I was reading the business board and some one made the point of "some franchises **** money, most break even, some lose a lot due to the league not helping them properly grow". It made me think of the Isles.

Now i know a lot of it is Wang is cheap, but is this a chicken/egg scenario? Lets say Wang splashed out and the Isles were really competitive and in the playoffs perennially. Would the Isles be any more financially well off? With the current state of the SMG lease and cable bill would you say that if the team was doing better the tram could probably have a mid team budget?


Last edited by PWJunior: 11-02-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Mod edit
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11-02-2012, 12:29 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
I was reading the business board and some one made the point of "some franchises **** money, most break even, some lose a lot due to the league not helping them properly grow". It made me think of the Isles.

Now i know a lot of it is Wang is cheap, but is this a chicken/egg scenario? Lets say Wang splashed out and the Isles were really competitive and in the playoffs perennially. Would the Isles be any more financially well off? With the current state of the SMG lease and cable bill would you say that if the team was doing better the tram could probably have a mid team budget?
I don't think it's one particular thing, but more like a few things that constantly feed off each other to make matters increasingly worse. Hopefully, the announcemnt and eventual move to Brooklyn takes one of these factors out of the equation and begins to alleviate the problem.

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11-02-2012, 01:42 PM
  #3
OlTimeHockey
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Wang lost $4M on a lousy team. This says a lot about NYI fans. You give us something to pay for worth paying for and we're happy to see it.

The loss jumped to $8M last year. It might break even is Snow gets talent one season. If we made the postseason we'd be ahead. Now....

Do we take the money and invest in league normal operations and lose a little? I HOPE SO! We'd have a better shot at competing. But Wang won't hire a Team President or better scouting or ops if he can get by on what we're using now. So be it. Tavares and Moulson and two gem goalies and Hamonic will carry Strome and Reinhart and so on into better hockey and this hopefully works. Maybe in 2015 we sign a top notch winger and have Boyes on line 2 with Strome and Bailey on wings. Maybe we can sign a top defender to bring Reinhart in? This means better hockey....

Which means people will pay.

Which means in my opinion Wang will want to spend on staff to get revenue sharing. Like the grown up teams do.

Now will Brooklyn sell after the new building smell wears off? Will fans go to 7:00 games (Wang orders - for the kiddies) from Patchogue after work? From East Meadow? From Rocky Point? You BETTER make the team worth the transfers!

And not for one or two years a la 2001.....but for the long run, because we're not just trying to KEEP NYI fans but GROW NEW ONES WITHING NYR TERRITORY!!!!!

That only works when a long term enjoyable success takes place, and NYR family kids don NYI jerseys and hats amid scorn from the barbaric hordes of NYR locals.


So invest and invest heavily!

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11-02-2012, 03:10 PM
  #4
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In the past, the reason was SMG.

But now that the lease has been revised so Wanglanders get either a majority or all of ticket, concession & parking revenue, the reason the NYI don't make $ is because not enough people go to the games. Sure the arena sucks, but something tells me if we were a consistent playoff contender, the place would be averaging 15+ thousand a game, and the organization could justify higher ticket prices.

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11-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Wang lost $4M on a lousy team. This says a lot about NYI fans. You give us something to pay for worth paying for and we're happy to see it.

The loss jumped to $8M last year. It might break even is Snow gets talent one season. If we made the postseason we'd be ahead. Now....

Do we take the money and invest in league normal operations and lose a little? I HOPE SO! We'd have a better shot at competing. But Wang won't hire a Team President or better scouting or ops if he can get by on what we're using now. So be it. Tavares and Moulson and two gem goalies and Hamonic will carry Strome and Reinhart and so on into better hockey and this hopefully works. Maybe in 2015 we sign a top notch winger and have Boyes on line 2 with Strome and Bailey on wings. Maybe we can sign a top defender to bring Reinhart in? This means better hockey....

Which means people will pay.

Which means in my opinion Wang will want to spend on staff to get revenue sharing. Like the grown up teams do.

Now will Brooklyn sell after the new building smell wears off? Will fans go to 7:00 games (Wang orders - for the kiddies) from Patchogue after work? From East Meadow? From Rocky Point? You BETTER make the team worth the transfers!

And not for one or two years a la 2001.....but for the long run, because we're not just trying to KEEP NYI fans but GROW NEW ONES WITHING NYR TERRITORY!!!!!

That only works when a long term enjoyable success takes place, and NYR family kids don NYI jerseys and hats amid scorn from the barbaric hordes of NYR locals.


So invest and invest heavily!
Wang wouldn't have signed the Brooklyn agreement if he believed he was making less than Nassau. Also Wang wants to sell the team after a few years in Brooklyn likely to either Ratner or Prokhorov.

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11-02-2012, 04:13 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
Wang wouldn't have signed the Brooklyn agreement if he believed he was making less than Nassau. Also Wang wants to sell the team after a few years in Brooklyn likely to either Ratner or Prokhorov.
Assumption or fact?

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11-02-2012, 06:32 PM
  #7
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I think it's business 101, it doesn't matter what business. If you put a poor product out there, you're not gonna make money. Restaurants for instance, if you provide amazing food, at a decent price, you will make money, first by word of mouth. Then, even if you raise prices, people will still come back, because its a great product, you will always be guaranteed to be satisfied, and the owner always has a full restaurant. Crappy food, empty restaurant. Even if you charge $1 a meal, you may fill the restaurant for a little while, BUT people will get sick of the food after a while, even at the cheap price point. Bottom line, put a good product out there, people will pay, take some of the profit and put it back into the business, repeat. If your not willing to put some of your profits back into the business, and you put a crappy product out there, you lose money.

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11-02-2012, 07:28 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
I was reading the business board and some one made the point of "some franchises **** money, most break even, some lose a lot due to the league not helping them properly grow". It made me think of the Isles.

Now i know a lot of it is Wang is cheap, but is this a chicken/egg scenario? Lets say Wang splashed out and the Isles were really competitive and in the playoffs perennially. Would the Isles be any more financially well off? With the current state of the SMG lease and cable bill would you say that if the team was doing better the tram could probably have a mid team budget?
The old lease and an antiquated building means that revenue streams other teams get simply don't exist for the Islanders.
-- The Islanders have the fewest suites and fewest club seats in the league (they do get most the suite revenue under the old and modified lease).
-- They also have few concessions points of sale, and very few high end concessions. (they didn't get any of that money anyway in the old lease, get some in the modified lease).
-- They also have few advertising spots in the arena. It's small so there's not as much space on LED boards/scoreboard, etc (they didn't get any of that money under the old lease, get some in the modified lease).

When you add up "known" revenue (Local TV deal, National TV split, Revenue sharing, and gate receipts) for all the teams in the league, and subtract that from total revenue, you get a list of each team's revenues from things like suites, advertising and concessions (as well as merchandise). The Islanders would be so far last on that list it would not be funny. Like $20 million behind Phoenix, $45 behind most of hockey, and $60 million behind big clubs.

THAT'S why the Islanders lose money.

So it's really not fans/attendance at all. If the Islanders had sold every single ticket last season, at the average ticket price (and let's be honest, a lot of the unsold tickets are the cheap seats), that would have given the team $6.2 million more in revenue. STILL dead last in revenue. STILL losing money. If they sold out year after year and could raise ticket prices, then they could make a little money.

But the Islanders losses were the highest when Wang said "screw it" and bought Yashin, Peca, Hamrlick and Aucoin and made the playoffs.

They need to either A) Win with a ridiculously low payroll. Or B) Move into a new building.


After the Brooklyn announcement, one report said the Islanders can get up to $35 million MORE in revenue just from SUITES ALONE by going from NVMC to Barclays. And that's why we're freaking stoked. We're just running out the clock on being a poor team. Time to start acting like a New York franchise again.

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11-02-2012, 08:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
The old lease and an antiquated building means that revenue streams other teams get simply don't exist for the Islanders.
-- The Islanders have the fewest suites and fewest club seats in the league (they do get most the suite revenue under the old and modified lease).
-- They also have few concessions points of sale, and very few high end concessions. (they didn't get any of that money anyway in the old lease, get some in the modified lease).
-- They also have few advertising spots in the arena. It's small so there's not as much space on LED boards/scoreboard, etc (they didn't get any of that money under the old lease, get some in the modified lease).

When you add up "known" revenue (Local TV deal, National TV split, Revenue sharing, and gate receipts) for all the teams in the league, and subtract that from total revenue, you get a list of each team's revenues from things like suites, advertising and concessions (as well as merchandise). The Islanders would be so far last on that list it would not be funny. Like $20 million behind Phoenix, $45 behind most of hockey, and $60 million behind big clubs.

THAT'S why the Islanders lose money.

So it's really not fans/attendance at all. If the Islanders had sold every single ticket last season, at the average ticket price (and let's be honest, a lot of the unsold tickets are the cheap seats), that would have given the team $6.2 million more in revenue. STILL dead last in revenue. STILL losing money. If they sold out year after year and could raise ticket prices, then they could make a little money.

But the Islanders losses were the highest when Wang said "screw it" and bought Yashin, Peca, Hamrlick and Aucoin and made the playoffs.

They need to either A) Win with a ridiculously low payroll. Or B) Move into a new building.


After the Brooklyn announcement, one report said the Islanders can get up to $35 million MORE in revenue just from SUITES ALONE by going from NVMC to Barclays. And that's why we're freaking stoked. We're just running out the clock on being a poor team. Time to start acting like a New York franchise again.
If they won, and sold out regularly, they get those sponsors. You advertise where you are seen. Why do advertisers not spend on a team that ranks last for two decades short of one blip? Because there is no attendance and no money in advertising.

If you have 16,234 people in a building and are in the suburbs and you have another team with 12,000 people in a giant metro area with no draw.....where do you spend? Are the urbanites spending more money on goods and services than the suburban person per capita?

Now add the number of events. If the NVMC were selling out 41 nights and playoffs every year in the 'burbs, you also have concerts and shows and circus acts. say a well run barn had 120 nights packed. Would advertisers see more value to getting exposure? To say they don't would mean one believes the burbs don't spend on goods and services. But city folks do.

That's silly.

No one advertises because the Isles are synonymous with SUCKING.

The luxury box concept is the only real difference, then.

But the team is not well run and the man who runs the team runs the events as well so no bookings, no winning, no revenue.

And in 2001, we were positive in revenue. The arena stood in the way then as did SMG and we were still in the black. If we had refurbed or replaced the building then and gotten rid of SMG, we'd have made more money IF.....we sold out enough. If we didn't, eventually advertisers pull out and we get Tattoo Lou's and moving companies because no one gives a **** about a team that doesn't give a ****. Period.

Especially when they can had their ad dollars to Dolan or Ratner or a slew of other local shows.

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11-02-2012, 09:47 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
I was reading the business board and some one made the point of "some franchises **** money, most break even, some lose a lot due to the league not helping them properly grow". It made me think of the Isles.

Now i know a lot of it is Wang is cheap, but is this a chicken/egg scenario? Lets say Wang splashed out and the Isles were really competitive and in the playoffs perennially. Would the Isles be any more financially well off? With the current state of the SMG lease and cable bill would you say that if the team was doing better the tram could probably have a mid team budget?
Lack of corporate support, lack of significant luxury suite revenue, lack of enough club seating revenue, lack of significant advertising revenue, lack of consistent full price paid attendance. That's why NYI lose money.

Luckily, that all gets fixed in Brooklyn. That's why they're moving.

Can't win without revenue.

NYI lost 8 million last season with the lowest payroll. (And revised sub lease) Think about that. Imagine how much they'd lose with an average payroll on LI with no guarantee they'd be much better.

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11-02-2012, 09:50 PM
  #11
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Also, the Islanders don't get anything from the revenue sharing.

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11-02-2012, 10:12 PM
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Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by MJF View Post
Assumption or fact?
"Wang wouldn't have signed the Brooklyn agreement if he believed he was making less than Nassau."

Fact. No new arena on LI is a hint.

" Wang wants to sell the team after a few years in Brooklyn likely to either Ratner or Prokhorov."

I'd bet on it. Maybe even by 2015/16.

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11-02-2012, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If they won, and sold out regularly, they get those sponsors. You advertise where you are seen. Why do advertisers not spend on a team that ranks last for two decades short of one blip? Because there is no attendance and no money in advertising.

If you have 16,234 people in a building and are in the suburbs and you have another team with 12,000 people in a giant metro area with no draw.....where do you spend? Are the urbanites spending more money on goods and services than the suburban person per capita?

Now add the number of events. If the NVMC were selling out 41 nights and playoffs every year in the 'burbs, you also have concerts and shows and circus acts. say a well run barn had 120 nights packed. Would advertisers see more value to getting exposure? To say they don't would mean one believes the burbs don't spend on goods and services. But city folks do.

That's silly.

No one advertises because the Isles are synonymous with SUCKING.

The luxury box concept is the only real difference, then.

But the team is not well run and the man who runs the team runs the events as well so no bookings, no winning, no revenue.

And in 2001, we were positive in revenue. The arena stood in the way then as did SMG and we were still in the black. If we had refurbed or replaced the building then and gotten rid of SMG, we'd have made more money IF.....we sold out enough. If we didn't, eventually advertisers pull out and we get Tattoo Lou's and moving companies because no one gives a **** about a team that doesn't give a ****. Period.

Especially when they can had their ad dollars to Dolan or Ratner or a slew of other local shows.
By your logic sponsors would rather advertise for hockey in Nashville (winning team), than Toronto. It doesn't hold any water. Advertisers care about 1 thing-how many people they're able to reach with ads. It's that simple. Brooklyn's population is about the same as Nassau+Suffolk combined (and MUCH more importantly more concentrated).

Would winning bring fans to NVMC? OF COURSE. But the problem is this: you can say that about ANY NHL, NFL, MLB, or NBA team. It's a terrible argument. Attendance during losing years is more important than winning years. That's what really shows a team how strong their base is.

The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-I understand that many are upset about it, and have been fighting it tooth and nail (even to the point of being so naive that they honestly believe that a franchise would have a NHL team in Suffolk).

The suburbs are NOT suitable for the NHL. Times have changed. Just because the Islanders organization lives in the early 80's-the world doesn't. Long Island can't support a team-EVEN a winning team. It just can't. That's not a knock on Long Island...it's reality. Get over it. Move on. Be grateful we still have a team to cheer for. Wang bent over backwards for Nassau and how did the people respond? They voted it down.

Honestly I blame the people of Nassau the most. Not just for the one vote (that is a big thing). But even if you wanna blame the politicians-who votes them in? The people of Nassau need to look at themselves in the mirror and wake up. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn. No you wont be able to go to as many games. Get over it-and move on. It wont be that bad...as a former season ticket holder who now only sees them twice a year (1 was already cancelled so my best case scenario is 1 time this year), I PROMISE you. It could be worse-a lot worse. You could have to become a fan of another team. I don't know about you-but I was prepared to become a full-time Lightning fan in a few years. The move to Brooklyn is EASILY the best Islanders related news I've ever heard in my life.

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11-02-2012, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
"Wang wouldn't have signed the Brooklyn agreement if he believed he was making less than Nassau."

Fact. No new arena on LI is a hint.

" Wang wants to sell the team after a few years in Brooklyn likely to either Ratner or Prokhorov."

I'd bet on it. Maybe even by 2015/16.
Just because you'd bet on it doesn't make it true. If Wang wanted to sell the Islanders he would have done so a LONG LONG time ago. There's only 1 thing predictable about Wang: he's unpredictable.

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11-02-2012, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MJF View Post
Assumption or fact?
Who else is he going to sell to?

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11-02-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
By your logic sponsors would rather advertise for hockey in Nashville (winning team), than Toronto.
Reread....NOT one ounce of what I said at all. If people come, the more the stands fill up, the more advertisers notice. Period. No one outsells Toronto, so enough with that strawman.

Quote:
It doesn't hold any water. Advertisers care about 1 thing-how many people they're able to reach with ads. It's that simple.
which is what I said? Sell tickets, sell ads.
Quote:
Brooklyn's population is about the same as Nassau+Suffolk combined (and MUCH more importantly more concentrated).
And 14,500 people at all times for Isles games would be nice. 16,234 at all times would be nicer. Now if you have a garbage product to sell and higher tickets, what number of people will go to Isles games in Ranger territory? Hopefully enough. The advertisers might pull ads once the new team smell fades in Brooklyn, correct? (though they will get more advertisers than a broken awful Isles team in Nassau due to the arena and Nets).

Quote:
Would winning bring fans to NVMC? OF COURSE. But the problem is this: you can say that about ANY NHL, NFL, MLB, or NBA team. It's a terrible argument. Attendance during losing years is more important than winning years. That's what really shows a team how strong their base is.
And what about attendance for teams in metro areas whose teams suck for decades at a time? Any stats on the attendance for, say, a comparable scenario? You lose and lose and lose and no one goes....yeah, lemme advertise with those guys. Get my product seen.

Quote:
The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-I understand that many are upset about it, and have been fighting it tooth and nail (even to the point of being so naive that they honestly believe that a franchise would have a NHL team in Suffolk).

The suburbs are NOT suitable for the NHL. Times have changed. Just because the Islanders organization lives in the early 80's-the world doesn't. Long Island can't support a team-EVEN a winning team. It just can't. That's not a knock on Long Island...it's reality. Get over it. Move on. Be grateful we still have a team to cheer for. Wang bent over backwards for Nassau and how did the people respond? They voted it down.
Wang did everything.....but compromise, guarantee to the highest taxes people in America they won't raise taxes with a new arena, etc. Yep. Wang did everything right and so on, so forth. I get the spiel. We still have a team, but we would have a team in Nassau in a new arena if we had a better owner. Milstein probably could have gotten the arena done! Anyone willing to walk the walk with our inept county.

Quote:
Honestly I blame the people of Nassau the most. Not just for the one vote (that is a big thing). But even if you wanna blame the politicians-who votes them in? The people of Nassau need to look at themselves in the mirror and wake up. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn. No you wont be able to go to as many games. Get over it-and move on. It wont be that bad...as a former season ticket holder who now only sees them twice a year (1 was already cancelled so my best case scenario is 1 time this year), I PROMISE you. It could be worse-a lot worse. You could have to become a fan of another team. I don't know about you-but I was prepared to become a full-time Lightning fan in a few years. The move to Brooklyn is EASILY the best Islanders related news I've ever heard in my life.
We agree on who voted for the pols, yes. The rest.....let's ignore Bettman stating no historic franchises would be moved. Let's ignore the NHL prohibiting the Yotes from relocating. Let's go by the press release - they were in danger of moving out of state if Wang did not renew the Nassau lease and retain control of the building and continue to wait for the County to get on its feet in bad times with, say, a five year extension, and the renovation would never happen. Wait, I mean if Wang did not sign with Brooklyn three years before the deadline.

I dunno.....happy they didn't move to Kansas (a BS ploy) or Quebec. Happy I can drink on the way to games. But we're discussing not them moving but the reality of an arena in Nassau. I say it would work if they made it worth it to fans to go. To advertisers to spend on the arena. New arena does not mean ad dollars - they would have to succeed like the Mets don't in their new arena.



And Streit, TWO things about Wang: He's unpredictable with his actions, not money, and he's unethical with the money. History proves both in spades.


We have to win to draw fans and draw fans to get revenue. Bottom line.

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11-02-2012, 11:36 PM
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Who else is he going to sell to?
Who said he was selling in the first place?

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11-02-2012, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Just because you'd bet on it doesn't make it true. If Wang wanted to sell the Islanders he would have done so a LONG LONG time ago. There's only 1 thing predictable about Wang: he's unpredictable.
Why would he sell a long time ago at such a low value? The value of the team will be much higher soon after the Brooklyn move. That's the logical time he's most likely to sell and get rid of this headache. He might keep it longer to recoup some of his big losses but not much longer.

And yes, because I'd bet on it makes it true. I predicted NYI to Brooklyn and was even close on the announcement time. I'm NEVER wrong and old but wise.

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11-02-2012, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
By your logic sponsors would rather advertise for hockey in Nashville (winning team), than Toronto. It doesn't hold any water. Advertisers care about 1 thing-how many people they're able to reach with ads. It's that simple. Brooklyn's population is about the same as Nassau+Suffolk combined (and MUCH more importantly more concentrated).

Would winning bring fans to NVMC? OF COURSE. But the problem is this: you can say that about ANY NHL, NFL, MLB, or NBA team. It's a terrible argument. Attendance during losing years is more important than winning years. That's what really shows a team how strong their base is.

The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-I understand that many are upset about it, and have been fighting it tooth and nail (even to the point of being so naive that they honestly believe that a franchise would have a NHL team in Suffolk).

The suburbs are NOT suitable for the NHL. Times have changed. Just because the Islanders organization lives in the early 80's-the world doesn't. Long Island can't support a team-EVEN a winning team. It just can't. That's not a knock on Long Island...it's reality. Get over it. Move on. Be grateful we still have a team to cheer for. Wang bent over backwards for Nassau and how did the people respond? They voted it down.

Honestly I blame the people of Nassau the most. Not just for the one vote (that is a big thing). But even if you wanna blame the politicians-who votes them in? The people of Nassau need to look at themselves in the mirror and wake up. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn. No you wont be able to go to as many games. Get over it-and move on. It wont be that bad...as a former season ticket holder who now only sees them twice a year (1 was already cancelled so my best case scenario is 1 time this year), I PROMISE you. It could be worse-a lot worse. You could have to become a fan of another team. I don't know about you-but I was prepared to become a full-time Lightning fan in a few years. The move to Brooklyn is EASILY the best Islanders related news I've ever heard in my life.
Ditto. Good post.

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11-03-2012, 12:26 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by nyiguy21 View Post
Who said he was selling in the first place?
He won't sell until it suits him. He wanted the land. Now he has control of an arena soon to be vacant. He'll sell when he gets in the mix to develop the NVMC lot. Look at the Mangano quotes after the sale was announced.

I'll bet the Coliseum is razed in no time. Maybe two or three years after the Isles move. Count on Wang being a player in the development.

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11-03-2012, 12:37 AM
  #21
Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by nyiguy21 View Post
Who said he was selling in the first place?
I think he'll sell down the road when the franchise value is higher in Brooklyn. I truly believe he bought for 2 reasons - to get a real estate deal and to keep NYI on LI or local. He never got his land deal but he did keep NYI local. Not much more for him to need the franchise for.

I also think Ratner/Prokhorov want to buy the team to have a controlling interest and not just be landlords not utilizing all the leverage that owning a building/team brings. Conversly another reason for tenant Wang to sell once he makes back some losses. He probably realizes he's in over his head running a team and he's probably had enough. IMO.

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11-03-2012, 04:03 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
The luxury box concept is the only real difference, then.
But it's the same principle that applies to ads and concessions that you see with suites:
-- Fewer suites and club seats.
-- Fewer ad spaces (via technology like LED boards, for example)
-- Fewer concession stands (and far fewer high-end concessions)

A full house in NVMC would generate less revenue than the same attendance by a team in a newer, better, modern venue.

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
And in 2001, we were positive in revenue. The arena stood in the way then as did SMG and we were still in the black…. no one gives a **** about a team that doesn't give a ****. Period.
We were positive in revenue by $1 million. We also finished DMFL that season, 38 points out of the playoffs.
We didn't lose money, only because we paid little for a roster that was embarrassingly bad. That's not success.

I agree with you: We've been horribly mismanaged and have sucked for years. We drafted a ton of great talent and Mad Mike dealt it away in bad trades; then we have been on a shoe-string budget with unqualified people since he was booted.

But at the same time, it doesn't matter who is in charge: To make money consistently in our arena, you have to be really good with a really cheap team. If winning cheaply was easy, everyone would do it. It's incredibly hard to do. And virtually impossible to do over long periods of time. When you win with cheap players, those players become expensive players. When you have a really smart GM who keeps managing to win with cheap players year after year, some richer team offers that GM more money.

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
We still have a team, but we would have a team in Nassau in a new arena if we had a better owner.
Now THAT I disagree with. Nassau's wanted to develop that land for 59 years and all they managed to build was an arena that wasn't very good from the start. Milstein didn't get it done. He walked away. How many other guys have tried and failed in the last six decades?

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
New arena does not mean ad dollars - they would have to succeed like the Mets don't in their new arena.
Well, the Mets also have a relatively unique situation with the Madoff debacle driving fans away. But that's an entirely different conversation of sucking and mismanagement.

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11-03-2012, 04:41 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
Why would he sell a long time ago at such a low value? The value of the team will be much higher soon after the Brooklyn move. That's the logical time he's most likely to sell and get rid of this headache. He might keep it longer to recoup some of his big losses but not much longer.
I agree completely. His smartest business move is to make a splash after the lockout ends: Turn some of our prospects depth into TWO legit NHL star players (A top line forward, top pair defensemen) on contracts that are about six years long (guys who are 27-28) when we get them.

Ignite the fan base so that every knows we're up and coming, and when we move into Brooklyn spend a little more on second-tier free agents (who might actually sign with us!) and become a LEGIT CONTENDER in the first years in Barclays.

That's when you sell:
-- Revenues would be at an all-time high.
-- Those guys you brought in, and the young core would all be nearing the end of their contracts.
-- The result is a rosy picture for the new owner, but the reality is, rebuilding is right around the corner.

And honestly, as I type that, I know that long term building is better for the franchise… but damn that sounds really nice and I'd be okay with six years of rebuilding from 2019-2015 if we won the 2017 Stanley Cup.

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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Honestly I blame the people of Nassau the most. Not just for the one vote (that is a big thing). But even if you wanna blame the politicians-who votes them in? The people of Nassau need to look at themselves in the mirror and wake up. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn. No you wont be able to go to as many games. Get over it-and move on. It wont be that bad...as a former season ticket holder who now only sees them twice a year (1 was already cancelled so my best case scenario is 1 time this year), I PROMISE you. It could be worse-a lot worse. You could have to become a fan of another team. I don't know about you-but I was prepared to become a full-time Lightning fan in a few years. The move to Brooklyn is EASILY the best Islanders related news I've ever heard in my life.
I really don't blame the people.

The vote was a big thing, but it was an understandable thing. Do you want your taxes to go up? No. Period. That makes perfect sense to me. Their plan was stupid for a large number of taxpayers. How did it HELP them?

Both sides wanted and needed the other side to fund the arena/project. What's maddening is Wang was willing to do it if he got to develop the land and profit on the project, and the town really wasn't losing much except opportunity cost since they've never done anything with that land in 60 years (I know there's more issues for the town/county. But to me, that's win-win to me. It's easy for me living outside of Nassau and not dealing with the development in my backyard. I admit I only care about the team).

The politicians were put in office by the people. But I still blame them. And only them.
#1 - It's been at least 17 years of this crap. I guarantee you I can google old arena efforts and find Democrats and Republicans, each of whom were in power at various levels in county, town and state; and equal pro/against building that arena. It never mattered who each person was in office. The town always fought it, the state was always interested in helping, and the county was always in the middle: Pro arena, but with limits to their involvement.

#2 - And it was always the same because it's an easy election issue; not because they wanted what was best for the community.
Every arena project funded by municipalities are over budget and generally a bad deal. Cities make them because they have to, not because it's good business/politics.

There's no easier way for a challenger to get people to learn his name than by saying "I want a new home for Our Islanders! A brighter future! A better tomorrow!" Islanders fans will cheer, maybe get him elected but definitely know his name.

And there's no easier way to get votes than by saying "I voted AGAINST a tax increase and an obvious land-grab by a billionaire. THAT GUY wanted to jack up your taxes and give fat cats handouts."

The referendum was buck-passing at its finest. It was wiping their hands so no one had to take a polarizing stand. Their career wouldn't be ruined if they made the arena deal and taxes went up; They wouldn't be to blame if the Islanders left.

Real leadership is finding a solution, not self-preservation.

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11-03-2012, 06:47 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
Who else is he going to sell to?
No one. Sadly, I'm now expexcting Wang will keep the team.

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11-03-2012, 06:49 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
"Wang wouldn't have signed the Brooklyn agreement if he believed he was making less than Nassau."

Fact. No new arena on LI is a hint.

" Wang wants to sell the team after a few years in Brooklyn likely to either Ratner or Prokhorov."

I'd bet on it. Maybe even by 2015/16.
Now I'm expexcting that lunatic will want to keep the team.

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