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Oilers to Complete "Wow Factor Trade"?

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:05 PM
  #226
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Taylor Hall and Oscar Klefbom for Ruslan Fedotenko and Michael Leighton. Seems fair to me.

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11-02-2012, 03:06 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Exactly, it's never going to happen. It's still crazy for Edmonton fan to say they don't want him.
This is my point as well.

Obviously Luongo is not going to Edmonton. He'd never allow Gillis to trade him there. But Oiler fans saying they don't need him and would rather go with Dubnyk just makes my brain hurt. No one is that short-sighted.

I understand you hate the Canucks and Luongo, but this guy is head and shoulders above anything the Oilers have had in some time. He gives you a chance to win and steals the odd game. A proven top end starter that can dominate at times.

Good luck with Dubnyk then. He's probably the worst starter in the NHL and that's not hyperbole. Oilers will never get anywhere with the goaltending they have and Dubnyk will never be seen as a high end starter. Watched him since junior, right it down, mark it whatever, the guy is the next Alex Auld, and if the Oilers brass thinks like Oiler fans when it comes to goaltending, this decade rebuild just got a lot longer.

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11-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #228
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Dubnyk is more than competent actually, look at SV %, or dont
I had season tickets to Dubnyk's last year of junior and have follwed him close since. I like the kid a lot as a person, but he does not have the skill level to be a high-end NHL goalie. He has terrible leg speed and no lateral quickness. One of the slowest goalies in the NHL at getting accross the crease. This will only get worse as he ages. He'll be lucky to have a career like Alex Auld.

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11-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is my point as well.

Obviously Luongo is not going to Edmonton. He'd never allow Gillis to trade him there. But Oiler fans saying they don't need him and would rather go with Dubnyk just makes my brain hurt. No one is that short-sighted.

I understand you hate the Canucks and Luongo, but this guy is head and shoulders above anything the Oilers have had in some time. He gives you a chance to win and steals the odd game. A proven top end starter that can dominate at times.

Good luck with Dubnyk then. He's probably the worst starter in the NHL and that's not hyperbole. Oilers will never get anywhere with the goaltending they have and Dubnyk will never be seen as a high end starter. Watched him since junior, right it down, mark it whatever, the guy is the next Alex Auld, and if the Oilers brass thinks like Oiler fans when it comes to goaltending, this decade rebuild just got a lot longer.
O the hate. Just sad.

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11-02-2012, 03:10 PM
  #230
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O the hate. Just sad.
Where's the hate? Said I like the kid, met him a couple times back then. He just doesn't have the talent level to be elite. Not his fault... He's just really not that good and has some major flaws that will expose themselves even more as he ages, I don't hate him or the Oilers at all. And don't see anything in my post that says otherwise... So please, enlighten me.

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11-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Dubnyk is more than competent actually, look at SV %, or dont
When Lu had a .913 save percentage we were pretty disappointed, it was a career low for him. If Dubnyks .914 satisfies you, I guess you have your guy.

Wasn't the league average .916 last season?

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11-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is my point as well.

Obviously Luongo is not going to Edmonton. He'd never allow Gillis to trade him there. But Oiler fans saying they don't need him and would rather go with Dubnyk just makes my brain hurt. No one is that short-sighted.

I understand you hate the Canucks and Luongo, but this guy is head and shoulders above anything the Oilers have had in some time. He gives you a chance to win and steals the odd game. A proven top end starter that can dominate at times.

Good luck with Dubnyk then. He's probably the worst starter in the NHL and that's not hyperbole. Oilers will never get anywhere with the goaltending they have and Dubnyk will never be seen as a high end starter. Watched him since junior, right it down, mark it whatever, the guy is the next Alex Auld, and if the Oilers brass thinks like Oiler fans when it comes to goaltending, this decade rebuild just got a lot longer.
I don't think anyone is disputing Luongo's ability now (although you exagerate). The issue with Luongo is that his contract makes him less attractive as years pass. The Oilers are not in win now mode and shouldn't risk having a 5.3 million cap hit in 4 years they cannot get rid of.

If the Oilers can win now, great, but they should not be making high risk/high reward moves that could potentially handicap them into the future. When your core is 19-22, you have a lot of time.

I understand as a Canucks fan, you want the best return for Luongo. But you have to admit his contract creates significant risk going into the future.

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11-02-2012, 03:14 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
O the hate. Just sad.
Cause he said something you don't like about your goalie....

pot meet tea kettle

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post

I understand as a Canucks fan, you want the best return for Luongo. But you have to admit his contract creates significant risk going into the future.
We have no cba in place, we don't know if there will be risk for the team getting him in the future.

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11-02-2012, 03:14 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Here's an idea. How about Vancouver keep Luongo and Edmonton keep their assets and see if Dubnyk can make the starting position his own? Everyone happy?
Okay and that is probably what will happen. But relax, there is no need to force your opinion down anyones throat. There have been documented rumours linking Luongo and Oilers from mainstream media sources. There is also hockey hearsay from Kevin Lowe stating he wants Oilers to make 1 or 2 "wow" trades. It is fair to say that there is precedence set here for a potential trade between these teams. My personal opinion,, as a Canucks fan is not to trade Luongo to Edmonton. Obviously none of the big 4 would be coming back in a trade, and Luongo on the Oilers makes them a much better team. The Oilers are very similar to Tampa Bay in terms of needs. If you look at what happened 2 years ago and last year, what would you say is the difference. Well I would say Roloson played great and took them to Eastern Conference Final, and last year Tampa had terrible goaltending and did not make playoffs. Both teams boast strong forward groups, but relatively weak defence, and weak goaltending.

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
We're lucky he has such a great contract, it's going to allow us to do just that until a deal comes along.



Hopefully you guys aren't still trying to find a competent goalie.
And if we are I bet we can find one that doesnt cost the big 4

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11-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is my point as well.

Obviously Luongo is not going to Edmonton. He'd never allow Gillis to trade him there. But Oiler fans saying they don't need him and would rather go with Dubnyk just makes my brain hurt. No one is that short-sighted.

I understand you hate the Canucks and Luongo, but this guy is head and shoulders above anything the Oilers have had in some time. He gives you a chance to win and steals the odd game. A proven top end starter that can dominate at times.

Good luck with Dubnyk then. He's probably the worst starter in the NHL and that's not hyperbole. Oilers will never get anywhere with the goaltending they have and Dubnyk will never be seen as a high end starter. Watched him since junior, right it down, mark it whatever, the guy is the next Alex Auld, and if the Oilers brass thinks like Oiler fans when it comes to goaltending, this decade rebuild just got a lot longer.
Again you gotta actually start reading the thread instead of just posting.

blankall lists all the reasons perfectly. But since him and the other 90 posts didnt have it sink in. Oiler fans like Lou, think he would imrpove the team. Oiler fans dont like his lifetime contract when most NHL players are not elite at 40. Selanne is the exception not the rule.

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11-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #237
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I'm not really interested in investing over $5M of cap space towards a goalie who's notorious for ******** the bed in important games.

I'm also not sold on Dubnyk, but I'm willing to give him the reigns for at least one season and see how he comes out.

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11-02-2012, 03:20 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
I understand as a Canucks fan, you want the best return for Luongo. But you have to admit his contract creates significant risk going into the future.
It's not hard to understand why we disagree with this, we happen to have a great team now with Lu on the books as a backup. If we can do that now, how hard would it be for the oilers to pull off in 4, 5, 6 years when the cap is likely much higher?

And how likely is that even? I still haven't got one good comparison of a consistent goalie that has fallen off at 35.

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11-02-2012, 03:32 PM
  #239
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I understand as a Canucks fan, you want the best return for Luongo. But you have to admit his contract creates significant risk going into the future.
Honestly I don't see a huge risk in that contract. I think it's over-blown by fans. The cap hit is barely top 10 in the NHL now, and following Luongo over these years and hearing everthing that has been said from the Canucks and Luongo regarding that contract, there is no way he finishes that contract. He'll be sitting in Florida hanging out at his father-in-law's resturaunt by then. This isn't a guy that's going to be hanging around and NHL team ruining his legacy for one million bucks a year. He's a proud person. I see it as more of a 6 or maybe 7 year deal with a more than fair cap-hit. And beleive that most management types do to.

Fans are just tremendously short-sighted.

Now I don't think this means Luongo has tremendous value, there are other reasons for that (playoff performances, magnet for attention, mileage), but there is a market for him and it will be more than a lot of fans care to admit.

What people overlook with Luongo is that he is a great teammate and legitimizes the position. There is a reason he was named captain of the Canucks, and it's not because the Canucks just like to do embarrassingly gimmicky things (though sometimes I wonder). He did wonders for Schneider and no Canuck ever turned on him. They love him and he practises with them to this day.

He's not the grease-in-the-crease that can't keep his foot out of his mouth that the media protrays.

To summarize, I'd say he has decent value, Oilers' big 4 value? Of course not. But there are a couple teams that could really use him out there that are lying in the weeds and I think when all his said and done, the anti-Canuck crowd is going to be very suprised.

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is my point as well.

Obviously Luongo is not going to Edmonton. He'd never allow Gillis to trade him there. But Oiler fans saying they don't need him and would rather go with Dubnyk just makes my brain hurt. No one is that short-sighted.

I understand you hate the Canucks and Luongo, but this guy is head and shoulders above anything the Oilers have had in some time. He gives you a chance to win and steals the odd game. A proven top end starter that can dominate at times.

Good luck with Dubnyk then. He's probably the worst starter in the NHL and that's not hyperbole. Oilers will never get anywhere with the goaltending they have and Dubnyk will never be seen as a high end starter. Watched him since junior, right it down, mark it whatever, the guy is the next Alex Auld, and if the Oilers brass thinks like Oiler fans when it comes to goaltending, this decade rebuild just got a lot longer.
Doesn't make much sense for the Oilers to go after Luongo. The dude is about to hit his mid-30s, while the Oilers' core is all in their teens to early 20s, and their skaters as a group are at least a season away from real playoff contention. I'd give Luongo a guaranteed 2-3 seasons of high level goaltending, after which point it's anyone's guess how good he is. Most goalies don't play as well into their late 30s as Brodeur and Rolly did.

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11-02-2012, 03:34 PM
  #241
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Again you gotta actually start reading the thread instead of just posting.

blankall lists all the reasons perfectly. But since him and the other 90 posts didnt have it sink in. Oiler fans like Lou, think he would imrpove the team. Oiler fans dont like his lifetime contract when most NHL players are not elite at 40. Selanne is the exception not the rule.
I've read the thread. Please stop wasting my time responding to my posts. You can't spell and don't have the comprehension to have a reasonable debate. Thanks.

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11-02-2012, 03:35 PM
  #242
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Doesn't make much sense for the Oilers to go after Luongo. The dude is about to hit his mid-30s, while the Oilers' core is all in their teens to early 20s, and their skaters as a group are at least a season away from real playoff contention. I'd give Luongo a guaranteed 2-3 seasons of high level goaltending, after which point it's anyone's guess how good he is. Most goalies don't play as well into their late 30s as Brodeur and Rolly did.
So one poster tells me to go read the thread, and then the next posts this? C'mon guys, get it together.

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11-02-2012, 03:36 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
It's not hard to understand why we disagree with this, we happen to have a great team now with Lu on the books as a backup. If we can do that now, how hard would it be for the oilers to pull off in 4, 5, 6 years when the cap is likely much higher?

And how likely is that even? I still haven't got one good comparison of a consistent goalie that has fallen off at 35.
6 years would put Luongo at 39.

People have given you many many many examples of goalies who fell off in their late and mid 30s. That's the norm.

This year along we have Vokuon, Turco, Nabakov, Bryzgalov, etc.. all falling off.

If you want to look at historic goalies, you can see guys like Vernon, Fuhr, Hextall, Belfour, Kolzig, etc.. all following the same pattern.

If Luongo had only a 3 year contract, teams would be all over him. It's the period beyond that, which is creating uncertainty and rightly so.

And please stop putting so much emphassi on Save Percentage. We all know that save percentages across the board have gone up lately. Luongo was 12th this year and 18th in 2009/2010 among goalies for save percentage among goalies with 30 or more games. So you could argue that he is already inconsistent in that category, as 18th in a 30 league team is not exactly blowing people away.

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11-02-2012, 03:37 PM
  #244
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And if we are I bet we can find one that doesnt cost the big 4
It'll cost you all of them if you still suck when they're FA's.

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11-02-2012, 03:38 PM
  #245
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6 years would put Luongo at 39.

People have given you many many many examples of goalies who fell off in their late and mid 30s. That's the norm.

This year along we have Vokuon, Turco, Nabakov, Bryzgalov, etc.. all falling off.

If you want to look at historic goalies, you can see guys like Vernon, Fuhr, Hextall, Belfour, Kolzig, etc.. all following the same pattern.

If Luongo had only a 3 year contract, teams would be all over him. It's the period beyond that, which is creating uncertainty and rightly so.

And please stop putting so much emphassi on Save Percentage. We all know that save percentages across the board have gone up lately. Luongo was 12th this year and 18th in 2009/2010 among goalies for save percentage among goalies with 30 or more games. So you could argue that he is already inconsistent in that category, as 18th in a 30 league team is not exactly blowing people away.
What the hell? We were just told that Dubnyk was a good goalie, check his save %... Now it's useless? Whatever suits the argument I guess!

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11-02-2012, 03:39 PM
  #246
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No thanks to Luongo.. do not want any part of that long contract. And also no thanks to JayBo. I'd rather trade for Kipper for sure, who is just as good as Luongo or better, and doesn't come with a long contract. But unfortunately, I don't see the Flames moving him, especially to their main rivals. But that would be a trade that would make you say WOW.

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11-02-2012, 03:41 PM
  #247
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And please stop putting so much emphassi on Save Percentage. We all know that save percentages across the board have gone up lately. Luongo was 12th this year and 18th in 2009/2010 among goalies for save percentage among goalies with 30 or more games. So you could argue that he is already inconsistent in that category, as 18th in a 30 league team is not exactly blowing people away.
I personally like when people list stats but leave out certain years to presumably make their argument. Bringing up this past year's is understandable but why talk about his save percentages in 2009/2010 without bringing up 2010/2011 when (big surprise) he was one of the top in save percentages?

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11-02-2012, 03:42 PM
  #248
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This year alone we have Turco, Nabakov, Bryzgalov, etc.. all falling off.
Those aren't good examples, they were all inconsistent before and after 35, that's not falling off.

Belfour fell off at 40, Lu isn't likely to be playing for 1m at 40.

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11-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #249
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What the hell? We were just told that Dubnyk was a good goalie, check his save %... Now it's useless? Whatever suits the argument I guess!
Yeh.. like claiming to be a pro scout and the be all and end all of goalie evaluators

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11-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #250
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I understand why Oilers' fans don't see Luongo as a great fit given the age of their top players. Ideally you pick up a young goalie like Price or Quick just hitting their prime. Make no mistake though a goalie like that will cost one of the big 4. The real question is whether there is a better option than Luongo out there and I suppose to a certain extent that depends on what you think of Dubnyk.

Looking at the other side, as a Canucks' fan there is no way that I want to be facing the Oilers with Luongo in net. I'd much rather have Dubnyk handling the goalie duties in two or three years when the Oilers are a competitive team.

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