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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-07-2012, 03:11 PM
  #326
RGY
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Is someone really taking a shot at Lundqvist right now? This lockout needs to end...

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11-07-2012, 03:32 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Is someone really taking a shot at Lundqvist right now? This lockout needs to end...
Source?

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Old
11-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #328
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Source?
a dozen posts up...

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Old
11-07-2012, 04:13 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Journalists expose stuff like this. Brooks is biased but the league is screwed up. From the backlash over sakic, the igjnla threats, imposing the cba then crying over it, hiding revenue for accounting. Bettman is a mess with expansion, southern markets, scripted lockouts, ziggy palffy meddling... how do you not take the players side or at the least not allow for a voice in their behalf?
Bettman is responsible for 4 expansion teams

Minnesota - Success
Nashville - Success (Had to build a fanbase from ground up)
Columbus - Would be good market if ownership/management wasn't so terrible
Atlanta - Failed

Fla/TB/etc all were awarded teams before Bettman came to NHL

And Carolina is only other Southern Market that Bettman had hand in via relocation (Dallas already was in process of getting North Stars when he came aboard). And Carolina has turned into a solid market for NHL

Also the BOG is the ultimate decider , etc for expansion/relocation and the NHLPA supported the 90's expansions as it meant more jobs for its workers

And the people who complain about the NHL trying to save "Failing teams" need to remember that it was only 12 yrs ago the NHL had to step in and help save Calgary , Edmonton , Ottawa , Buffalo

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Old
11-07-2012, 04:21 PM
  #330
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The Rangers simply are not a contender without Lundqvist. Someone can respect him or not but that's still the truth. IMO--there isn't a better goalie in the world--though there maybe a handful as good or almost.

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11-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bettman is responsible for 4 expansion teams

Minnesota - Success
Nashville - Success (Had to build a fanbase from ground up)
Columbus - Would be good market if ownership/management wasn't so terrible
Atlanta - Failed

Fla/TB/etc all were awarded teams before Bettman came to NHL

And Carolina is only other Southern Market that Bettman had hand in via relocation (Dallas already was in process of getting North Stars when he came aboard). And Carolina has turned into a solid market for NHL

Also the BOG is the ultimate decider , etc for expansion/relocation and the NHLPA supported the 90's expansions as it meant more jobs for its workers

And the people who complain about the NHL trying to save "Failing teams" need to remember that it was only 12 yrs ago the NHL had to step in and help save Calgary , Edmonton , Ottawa , Buffalo
winnipeg to phoenix?

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Old
11-07-2012, 04:37 PM
  #332
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winnipeg to phoenix?
Phoenix is not southern market

And at time Winnipeg had no arena prospects , No ownership group stepping up and was bleeding money

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11-07-2012, 04:39 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
winnipeg to phoenix?
Yes.

The argument for Bettman looks better when you take away his biggest disaster when it comes to expansions/relocations.

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Old
11-07-2012, 04:40 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Phoenix is not southern market

And at time Winnipeg had no arena prospects , No ownership group stepping up and was bleeding money
Is that so?

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Old
11-07-2012, 04:41 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Phoenix is not southern market

And at time Winnipeg had no arena prospects , No ownership group stepping up and was bleeding money
Not Southern like in Alabama. But it is Pretty close to the Mexican border...

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Old
11-07-2012, 05:21 PM
  #336
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From the business board.

Quote:
Renaud Lavoie on RDS just now:

Don Fehr has put a gag order on the players. Wow. He says Fehr did that in MLB since once upon a time they were close to a CBA and a player said to the media ''we are close, let's get it done'' and MLB pulled their offer off the table.

Really good sign, IMO.

He also talked about a ''strong rumor'' going around the NHL was going to tell the PA: ''forget the make whole, we'll honor your contracts in full for the first 2 years.''
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...65&postcount=9

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11-07-2012, 05:43 PM
  #337
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Hearing both sides in meeting spent first 3-plus hours on revenue sharing (among teams); picking up from last night. Not yet on Make Whole..

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11-07-2012, 05:43 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The Rangers simply are not a contender without Lundqvist. Someone can respect him or not but that's still the truth. IMO--there isn't a better goalie in the world--though there maybe a handful as good or almost.
Lundqvist is still my favorite player in the world and obviously we won't be nearly as good without him, but he's been making a fool of himself throughout the entire lockout. I don't think that's debatable at all. It's like him and Brandon Prust ask each other, "How can we make ourselves look worse today?"

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Old
11-07-2012, 05:52 PM
  #339
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Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Told by several sources NHL is not committed to contract term limit but is committed to ending dramatically front-loaded deals.

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Also told that amnesty buyouts are on table.

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Two sources report NHL would assume entire make-whole with at least a portion deferred but unclear whether that applies only to first 2 yrs

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
That at least was plan before today's meeting.

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Old
11-07-2012, 05:54 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Told by several sources NHL is not committed to contract term limit but is committed to ending dramatically front-loaded deals.
Quote:
Also told that amnesty buyouts are on table
Quote:
Two sources report NHL would assume entire make-whole with at least a portion deferred but unclear whether that applies only to first 2 yrs
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie

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Old
11-07-2012, 05:59 PM
  #341
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The eliminating the front loaded deals is having the same annual salary through the term of the contract. The NHL had proposed that in July.

Amnesty buyouts are needed when the system changes.

The high escrow would be in the first 2-3 years of the contract.

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:03 PM
  #342
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
@NYP_Brooksie The 5 per cent variance will eliminate back diving contracts. The term limit just isn't necessary. Not a hill worth dying on.

Doug Maclean ‏@DougMaclean
Hate to say this but just told by person in the know that yesterday was as close to a waste of time as you can get. Hope today is better...

Seems like these reports are all over the place.

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:12 PM
  #343
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The NHL also proposed 5% increases

Quote:
Limit on year-to-year salary variability on multi-year SPCs -- i.e., maximum increase or decrease in total compensation (salary and bonuses) year-over-year limited to 5% of the value of the first year of the contract. (For example, if a Player earns $10 million in total compensation in Year 1 of his SPC, his compensation (salary and bonuses) cannot increase or decrease by more than $500,000 in any subsequent year of his SPC.)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

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11-07-2012, 06:15 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Because some people realize its tough work to own/operate a business, and theres a lot of risk involved.

The players play hockey, go home, and get paid.
If you are maintaining that they don't deserve representation in the media, then there is nothing more to discuss. And twitter is not media. It isn't investigative or even intelligent. There is nothing wrong with having one writer to counter all the ro league schills out there.

Brooks has a stance about the state of hockey and its management. He isn't keen on the super majority to veto Bettman, the hawkish negotiation committee, the lockout first mentality, the onus put on players to fix problems rooted in a cba and contracts imposed by the league (and its total league apologist rhetoric to even suggest the last cba was collaborative). Bettman had momentum, good will, and receptive players prior to July. They could have hammered out this cba in July/august is Bettman didn't go for the throat. If locking out wasn't his only move. He calls out the league because they are bad at what they do and almost everyone agrees with that notion so long as players aren't screwing up a season by not bending over. Is he over the top? Sure. But I don't see why he irks people so much when all you have to do is not read him.

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:16 PM
  #345
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Soooooo...are the meetings over?

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:16 PM
  #346
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Source tells me "Make whole" provision has yet to be discussed. Will be covered tonight. Revenue sharing being debated now. Major issue.
https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/st...33106741583872

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:20 PM
  #347
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Well, that's an answer.

Good god, they can't get this crap done... At least they're not being babies and walking out after 15 minutes.

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:23 PM
  #348
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July 13 offer

Quote:
There is the demand for five-year term limits on contracts, the elimination of all signing bonuses and a flat salary figure for every year of a contract. No front-loading. No using the long-term mechanism to create cap space and maneuverability. A portion of one-way contracts in the minors charged against the cap.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...3ctsOZ3siejtMI

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11-07-2012, 06:24 PM
  #349
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Make whole provision not on the table yet. They are talking about revenue sharing between owners. They did talk about it Mon. Interesting.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...34648089583616

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11-07-2012, 06:55 PM
  #350
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Quote:
As I've said before, in the end the most important ``get'' for NHL on player contracts is killing back-diving deals (front-loaded deals)
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...42561088667650

Quote:
When push comes to shove, all along the belief is that the NHL would be willing I think to live without many of its player contracts demands
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...42695746797568

Quote:
Having said that, it really _ really depends on how the Make Whole conversation goes...
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...42791184007169

Quote:
@Real_ESPNLeBrun There is reason for players to hate those backloaded deals too -- murder on escrow in high-salary years.
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/stat...43502030462977

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