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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Larry Brooks criticizes McKenzie/TSN

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Old
02-06-2005, 04:57 PM
  #51
Egil
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The PA audit isn't accurate either though. The PA tries to count 100% of box revenue, and other things like that, which is not accurate (neither is the owners acounting accurate either). This is why you need to agree upon what is revenue, and what isn't, then go from their (you can even make it easier to count revenue, and then raise the % the players get of that).

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02-06-2005, 05:02 PM
  #52
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I hope Bob post his opinion about the article here. I'd like to hear him say what's on his mind.

I'm sure it's a bigger deal to us than it is to him.

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02-06-2005, 05:02 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
Why is everyone allowing Larry Brooks to spew his NHLPA garbage and personally insult members of the PHWA.
A reporter calling out another is weak, IMO and terribly unprofessional.

And Brook's opinions certainly rattle some people's chains and frequently.

But, separately, I have a question for you Bowser:

What on earth do you mean by "Why is everyone allowing Larry Brooks to spew his NHLPA garbage."?!

"Allowing"?!

What is the implication there? That he should be mummed? His right to voice his opinion silenced because you, or I or others happen to disagree?

In what friggin' country and under what political system do you live?

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02-06-2005, 05:12 PM
  #54
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Trotts, "allowing" as in, his editors allowing such filth. The PHWA for allowing him to be a member. The NHLPA for using a man who has lost any shred of credibility he had by reporting countless rumors and innuendo that NEVER come to pass.

If the players want a mouthpiece, try someone with more respect throughout the media, NHL and fans.

Brooks can spout his opinion, free speech, but don't think for a minute, he's not getting something on the side by spouting the secret NHLPA press releases.

Sensationalism = Larry Brooks

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02-06-2005, 05:21 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHARF1940
I am a union butcher and I say F the PA!!! they are not a real union, half the reason to be in a union is to have wages set, at a fair, but CAPPED rate so that there is no fighting amongst employees and their respective company and vice versa. Most unions have a tiered system with caps on different job titles. I make just as much as the guy next to me, but not as much as the boss, and more than the kid who cleans up, the way it should be. Eliminates nonsense like this. Accept it players, the rest of us have and are very happy with it!!!
Very interesting perspective. I have never thought of player's asssociations as true unions either.....but more of a collective bargaining entity to prevent the chaos of 750 totally individualized contracts and negotiate collectively for guidelines for player movement between teams.

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02-06-2005, 05:23 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Russ Conway, at a small time paper, was one of the few who actually investigated the validity of the report.
And *supported* it's basic findings.

Conway's primary problem was with the term "super-audit" being thrown around. He didn't like the way some of the numbers were calculated, and thinks they probably end up overstating the losses a tiny bit. And even then, he admits that of course the opposite is true as well, and there are cases where revenue was overstated:

"But in arenas where hockey is the real draw for the high-rollers who rent luxury suites, that assumption could dilute hockey revenue -- crediting a piece of the pie to other events that suite holders have no interest in.

Of course, in arenas where hockey is less of a draw, the opposite could be true."

People seem to think there's some grand AHA! moment that arises from "proving" that the losses weren't $273 million, they were only $250 million, or whatever. The actual number is irrelevant. By all sources, internal, external, independent or not, *everyone* agrees the NHL collectively loses a boatload of money each year.

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02-06-2005, 05:25 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
Brooks can spout his opinion, free speech, but don't think for a minute, he's not getting something on the side by spouting the secret NHLPA press releases.
If you don't have anything to back this up, you should consider deleting it. It's a libelous remark, and contrary to the hfboards user policy.

Not to mention stupid. I'm sure that the NHLPA doesn't really give a rat's ass about whether or not the fans support their position.

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02-06-2005, 05:28 PM
  #58
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Bowser, thanks for the clarification.

Get kind of weirded out on this end when there is a hint of stifling free speech. I figured you were better than that and was correct.

Brooks is a demagague on this CBA, no doubt. I am not in a position to question his motives, but will agree that he offers little depth to his columns on this subject, as in the opposing point of view. (I actually find his regular columns to be pretty engaging and not be nearly as pro-NYR slanted as some fellow NYI fans suggest, as he takes a lot of shots at all the locals.)

The CBA debate here (on HF) has, at times, gotten so out of hand, however, that you have people talking about wanting to go out on the ice and take out Chelios' knees , etc. That is why I just wanted to make sure we weren't getting to the point of recommending taking the dissenters (in this case, Brooks) out back and shooting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudcrutch79
I'm sure that the NHLPA doesn't really give a rat's ass about whether or not the fans support their position.
This is a point that undoubtedly brings incalculable pain to some fans and feeds their bitterness toward the players. (Unjustifiably, IMO)

But it also is 100% correct, IMO.

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02-06-2005, 05:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Epsilon
The fact that you even suggest that shows you have absolutely no clue about how the business operates. Please explain why TV ratings are the sole determinant of the financial success of a sports league. I'd love to hear this.
nfl has high tv rating which led to a hugh national tv contract, and the league takes that money and divide it between all the team so each team are in good financial health. nhl have no such tv contract because their rating is low, so every team pretty much rely solely on revenue from the gate or local tv station, thats why small market teams are having a tough time staying in the black. while tv rating isnt the sole determinant of the financial success of a sports league, its a major factor that cant be ignored.

 
Old
02-06-2005, 05:32 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
nfl has high tv rating which led to a hugh national tv contract, and the league takes that money and divide it between all the team so each team are in good financial health. nhl have no such tv contract because their rating is low, so every team pretty much rely solely on revenue from the gate or local tv station, thats why small market teams are having a tough time staying in the black. while tv rating isnt the sole determinant of the financial success of a sports league, its a major factor that cant be ignored.
No one is suggesting that the NHL is on the same level as the NFL. But the revenue they generate ensures they are far ahead of Arena Football, TV ratings be damned. TV ratings are NOT the be-all end-all of sports business.

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Old
02-06-2005, 05:45 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
A reporter calling out another is weak, IMO and terribly unprofessional.

And Brook's opinions certainly rattle some people's chains and frequently.

But, separately, I have a question for you Bowser:

What on earth do you mean by "Why is everyone allowing Larry Brooks to spew his NHLPA garbage."?!

"Allowing"?!

What is the implication there? That he should be mummed? His right to voice his opinion silenced because you, or I or others happen to disagree?

In what friggin' country and under what political system do you live?
Players agree with Larry as per TSN

The league would surely love to put their rejected proposal to a full membership vote of the players. But that doesn't seem to be an option right now.

"To be brutally honest, there's nothing to vote on. Their offer is simply unacceptable," New Jersey Devils forward John Madden told the New York Post.

It's unacceptable because it links player costs to revenues, revenues that may go down when the game resumes because of the damage suffered from the lockout.

"Linkage is tough because we just don't believe their numbers," said Marchant. "How can you negotiate a system with a link between revenues and salaries when you just don't respect their financial numbers?"


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...58&hubName=nhl

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Old
02-06-2005, 06:03 PM
  #62
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to say mckenzie is not pro-owner is like saying brooks is not pro-nhlpa.

they're both biased.

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Old
02-06-2005, 07:26 PM
  #63
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My experience with this chap has been the ridiculous trade rumors he gets credit for on Spector's and some garbage I've seen attributed to him here. I kind of wondered what he was all about, and recently had the opportunity to read a rambling, incoherent article in the hockey news. It was accompanied by a photo, which looked like it was taken by an amateur photog on cell block "L". Now perhaps this particular photo doesn't do the man justice, but I felt that he looked like someone who would never even dream of affording his own poodle, and might attach himself as a players' lackey just in hopes of one of them letting him pamper their pet. It would certainly explain the brown-nosing........

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02-06-2005, 09:09 PM
  #64
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What exactly is Larry Brooks issue. He worked for the Devils, I can only guess he was fired and he remains what he is, a bitter fish monger. But I will say this about Brooks, he was the first one to break the story about the $31 million hard cap and he did that well before anyone else did. However last week he wrote a column suggesting that the owners take a public vote. What about the players, taking any vote. Now in fairness Larry the fish monger did suggest a few days later the players take a vote but what about a public vote Larry the fish monger for your beloved players

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Old
02-06-2005, 11:37 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
"Linkage is tough because we just don't believe their numbers," said Marchant. "How can you negotiate a system with a link between revenues and salaries when you just don't respect their financial numbers?"[/size]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...58&hubName=nhl
Truly, Marchant is becoming the biggest tool in the whole NHLPA. Ah, Toddy , ya dont think the NBA & NFL PA's have ways & means of figuring out revenues & profits.
Or maybe, just maybe the apparent inability of the NHLPA in hiring an auditor may be that it doesnt serve their continued desire to **** & pillage.
Frick I hate it when a guy like Marchant blatently lies about the true motivation as to why they wont agree to a certain proposal. Have some balls & say what it is Toddy, you just want more $$$ & you know linkage/cap wont get you there.
What a donkey.

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Old
02-06-2005, 11:39 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker14
to say mckenzie is not pro-owner is like saying brooks is not pro-nhlpa.

they're both biased.

You should maybe try watching TSN, then you would know how truly idiotic this statement is.

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02-06-2005, 11:43 PM
  #67
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I have to weigh-in on the side of Mackenzie, he is neutral, he has chastised both sides on numerous occasions.

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Old
02-06-2005, 11:50 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
" Look, Bob McKenzie of TSN is an outstanding reporter who works hard, has a well-earned outstanding reputation and loves the game. But he, like essentially every reporter employed by an NHL rights-holder, has from Day One viewed the lockout through the owners' prism. The networks that can do much better at least the ones based in Canada, that is owed us much better, that's all I'm saying."
Gee, when I saw the title on the thread I was prepared for the worst, but then I see where Larry says I'm an "outstanding reporter who works hard, has a well-earned outstanding reputation and loves the game." He must be trying to kill me with kindness. I'm not sure anyone has ever said so many glowing things about me.



As for me viewing things through the "owners' prism" because TSN is a rightsholder, that's really kind of silly. For the record, I believe it's not unreasonable for the owners to seek cost certainty or linkage but I think it's crazy to be that unyielding on it that you have to kill the season to get it. Saying that first part out loud tends to cause a really negative reaction from some people who believe if you're not 100 per cent with them then you're 100 per cent against them. Then some of those people like to wage a campaign to discredit you. Doesn't work.

I'm afraid that my greatest failing as a media person, a business where taking sides seems to be a badge of honour, is I almost always see valid points from both sides. On the bright side, when you don't climb into bed with one side, you wake up feeling a whole lot better about yourself in the morning. As for TSN's coverage of the lockout, we don't owe anybody anything, other than to do a good job for as many of our viewers as possible. I'm satisfied we've done that, day after day after #%$&* day...

Larry's Larry. He's into advocacy journalism. If I were going to find fault with him it would be to say he simply doesn't get it, that my viewers, his readers, the public don't really care much when one media guy goes after another media guy. I mean, how many Post readers even know what TSN is, although Larry seems to be doing his best this year to change that. In 1994, Larry was as pro-owner then as he is pro-player now. That's cool. Guess he changed his mind, which he's allowed to do. In the big picture, it doesn't really matter what he thinks or I think, what will be in this lockout will be.

Final word: readers of newspapers and viewers of sports networks aren't stupid. They know when they're being served; they know when they're being played. And they certainly know the difference between the two. I would say that's "outstanding."


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02-06-2005, 11:57 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Players agree with Larry as per TSN
I'm quite sure they do, Messenger. And I have thought so all along.

Just didn't want to get in any further spitting match with the venemous anti-NHLPA types here who are constantly calling for a player vote, as Goodenow "is not operating in their best interest", or so these fans seem to suggest/know.

That aside, it still does not absolve the writer in this case of not providing any perspective (counter-arguments) whatsoever to his own point of view on this CBA. I frankly think his arguments could be bolstered by doing so.


Last edited by Trottier: 02-07-2005 at 12:05 AM.
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02-07-2005, 12:04 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
Trotts, "allowing" as in, his editors allowing such filth. The PHWA for allowing him to be a member. The NHLPA for using a man who has lost any shred of credibility he had by reporting countless rumors and innuendo that NEVER come to pass.

If the players want a mouthpiece, try someone with more respect throughout the media, NHL and fans.

Brooks can spout his opinion, free speech, but don't think for a minute, he's not getting something on the side by spouting the secret NHLPA press releases.

Sensationalism = Larry Brooks
I nominate Al Strachan.

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02-07-2005, 12:07 AM
  #71
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Larry Brooks deserves to be thrown in the Hudson River. Calling the guy a complete moron doesn't due fair justice. All he does is comsistantly bash the devils night in and night out. Now he bashes one of the better reporters that the sport has. If I ever see him in person I would half think of suckering him. I would trust a racket ball reporter's views on the NHL before I would trust Brooks.

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Old
02-07-2005, 12:13 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMckenzie
On the bright side, when you don't climb into bed with one side, you wake up feeling a whole lot better about yourself in the morning.
Ouch ! That's true, but only if you have any integrity left...

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02-07-2005, 12:19 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
Why is everyone allowing Larry Brooks to spew his NHLPA garbage and personally insult members of the PHWA.
If, by everyone, you mean the NY Post, it's because it's a crappy newspaper. Is anyone else carrying his column?

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02-07-2005, 12:25 AM
  #74
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I cannot believe that there are people in Canada, who watch TSN, that think Bob McKenzie is pro owner. If you dont get TSN, or dont watch it, ok fine, maybe you have been led to believe he is. But anyone who has actually taken the time to listen to the man knows he has been the most impartial of analyzers. Usually he is is saying what many fans want to hear, and cutting through all the garbage that comes from both sides. When he shuts up Healy as Healy goes on and on about 6 years ago, or shuts up Brian when Burke says things like cap or no game, THATS WHAT I WANT! They are constantly abusing their powers and really, are showing no respect to anyone within the NHL/hockey world other than themselves and their constituents. At least Burke sometimes critizes ownership....what exactly is the point of having Glen Healy on? Was I too stupid to understand Ted Saskin, can I not be given some credit for being able to read between the lines if necessary? Or why do I need Bill Watters? Thanks, saw the 5 second clip on Bill Daly, dont need Watters drudging on for 10min to tell me what he meant.

Bob McK has been more than fair, and if anything, Im amazed he can sit there night in night out and not just YELL at the camera in frustration "ENOUGH OF THIS ****ING CRAP, JUST MAKE THE ****ING DEAL WE ALL KNOW YOUR GOING TO ****ING MAKE AND STOP THIS ****ING GAME OF CHICKEN YOUR PLAYING WITH OUR FAVOURITE GAME!"

Sammy had it right on. If you have watched TSN at all this year, you know exactly where Healy stands, you know for the most part where Burke is coming from, and you listen to McK to make sense of it all. When you watch TSN, you expect the obvious, its become so predictable now its not funny. I just like to listen for the rare insider info from Healy/Burke, other than that, its Bob Mck or bust.

You know whats sad? Its become a political game, and I really wonder how Im supposed to have any sense of credibility for a guy like Glen Healy later. When he tells me in the future about how great a player Todd Marchant is, I'll wonder if thats cause he sees something I dont see, or if its because he feels the need to say it since they are close. Healy obviously picks friends/associates over objective reporting. So how do I listen to him later? Or to Burke? Sorry TSN, the NHL is not the only one who will have to do some damage control later.


Last edited by WhalerBoy: 02-07-2005 at 12:33 AM.
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02-07-2005, 12:33 AM
  #75
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Bob, thanks for weighing in on this issue. I'm seeing more critical columns attacking fellow media members than original investigative reports on the NHL and NHLPA proposals and agendas. I truly hope once this CBA mess is behind us, this sort of thing disappears.

Bob, since Bettman and Goodenow have stated such entrenched opposition to the other side's CBA proposals and payroll systems, what will it take for the owners and players to force their leadership to end the showdown and make a deal.

Do the players wait until December to finally relent on the linkage and salary caps, or do the owners see an unprecedented complete wipe out as a death nail to the league's ability to bring back fans in the US?

I think a majority of players are very fearful of losing this season and having to wait it out until December and get a worse deal compared to getting an ok deal now.

The large market owners don't want to share their regular season revenues, lose this season, or have a small salary cap so they will eventually begin to lose their patience, which I would say has already begun since we're into February without a deal.

Problem I see, both sides are playing the waiting game and unfortunately, I don't see either blinking soon enough to save this season or the start of next season.

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