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Something for those that are on the players side...

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Old
02-06-2005, 10:16 AM
  #1
txpd
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Something for those that are on the players side...

If you are pro players not just anti owners, here are a couple of interesting comments that I found in this morning's boston globe.

Veteran minor leaguer Kevin Kerr, who plays for the Flint Generals, said he found it offensive. "The hypocrisy of it is unbelievable," said Kerr. "They don't want a salary cap but they'll come to a league that has a salary cap and take someone else's job."
..."Hockey players are supposed to be brethren," said Cherry. "They said they were going there to have fun. Have fun? For the guys in that league, it's not fun, it's their livelihood. I've always been 100 percent for the players. but to take another guy's job is just [wrong]. Those guys are hypocrites. It's just not fair what they're doing. God forbid the [NHL] goes to impasse and guys cross the line, they'd be crucified by the NHL guys. But for them, it's OK."

I am still troubled by one major inconsistancy on the players part. They said they will never agree to a salary cap in an NHL CBA, but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL, but won't agree to NHL level money that would come with an NHL level salary cap. THAT is just silly.

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02-06-2005, 10:26 AM
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What kind of a quote do you expect from a career minor leaguer? He should shut his mouth, the lockout isn't permanent and in due time he will be back leading the freegin Flint Generals.

"but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL"

playing in the minors or europe is a temporary thing, more to keep in shape and make a small amount of money. If they are only playing in the league for half a season why would they care what kind of system they have? On the other hand the NHL is the league where they are going to play their whole careers, they don't want a cap there for their sake or the future players. Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?

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02-06-2005, 10:45 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
What kind of a quote do you expect from a career minor leaguer? He should shut his mouth, the lockout isn't permanent and in due time he will be back leading the freegin Flint Generals.

"but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL"

playing in the minors or europe is a temporary thing, more to keep in shape and make a small amount of money. If they are only playing in the league for half a season why would they care what kind of system they have? On the other hand the NHL is the league where they are going to play their whole careers, they don't want a cap there for their sake or the future players. Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?
This is what really bothers me. NHL players are more than willing to take the job of someone that needs that job to feed his family just "to keep in shape". I don't understand how anyone can feel that it is okay for an NHL player, that as a minimum has been making $300K per season, is justified in taking the job that has been another players sole source of income, especially when the NHL player is just doing it until he can get back to making his huge salary again and is being paid $5000 per month (minimum) by the NHLPA.

:mad:

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02-06-2005, 10:45 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?
Because NHL hockey players are Men of Principle who fight against salary caps in all their nefarious guises. They're not fighting for their own pay, they're fighting to keep the next generation of NHL players and, broadly speaking, hockey players everywhere free of the shackles of linkage and cappery.

NHL players shouldn't be playing in the UHL - they should be picketing their games.

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02-06-2005, 10:46 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
What kind of a quote do you expect from a career minor leaguer? He should shut his mouth, the lockout isn't permanent and in due time he will be back leading the freegin Flint Generals.

"but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL"

playing in the minors or europe is a temporary thing, more to keep in shape and make a small amount of money. If they are only playing in the league for half a season why would they care what kind of system they have? On the other hand the NHL is the league where they are going to play their whole careers, they don't want a cap there for their sake or the future players. Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?
Career minor leaguers have as much right to speak their mind anyway, especially about something the impacts their job.

As for playing in the minors or Europe being a temporary thing...could be. But the players might want to take a realistic look at the leagues they are currently playing in. Because if they kill the goose that laid the golden egg, temporary could continue for a long, long time.

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02-06-2005, 11:10 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by djhn579
This is what really bothers me. NHL players are more than willing to take the job of someone that needs that job to feed his family just "to keep in shape". I don't understand how anyone can feel that it is okay for an NHL player, that as a minimum has been making $300K per season, is justified in taking the job that has been another players sole source of income, especially when the NHL player is just doing it until he can get back to making his huge salary again and is being paid $5000 per month (minimum) by the NHLPA.

:mad:
To tell you the truth it doesn't bother me one bit. All hockey leagues are playing the same sport. If your an NHL hockey player and you want to play in the UHL, and you can make a team, than why shouldn't you be allowed to do it? Taking someone's job is unfortunate, but that's the nature of the sport. It's competition. Making your money playing a sport is not exactly the most secure job, and this guy Kerr should realize that. Besides, wouldn't the guy playing in the UHL do the same thing to an NHL player? If Kerr had the oppurtunity to go play for an NHL team, do you think he would give a damn that he's taking the job of another guy who is trying to play in the NHL?

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02-06-2005, 11:13 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by The Maltais Falcon
Because NHL hockey players are Men of Principle who fight against salary caps in all their nefarious guises. They're not fighting for their own pay, they're fighting to keep the next generation of NHL players and, broadly speaking, hockey players everywhere free of the shackles of linkage and cappery.

NHL players shouldn't be playing in the UHL - they should be picketing their games.
I agree, but I would have to think that if a bunch of NHL players were going to play in the UHL permanently they would fight against the cap that they would be playing under. But that's not the case, right now it's temporary.

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02-06-2005, 11:21 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by txpd
If you are pro players not just anti owners, here are a couple of interesting comments that I found in this morning's boston globe.

Veteran minor leaguer Kevin Kerr, who plays for the Flint Generals, said he found it offensive. "The hypocrisy of it is unbelievable," said Kerr. "They don't want a salary cap but they'll come to a league that has a salary cap and take someone else's job."
..."Hockey players are supposed to be brethren," said Cherry. "They said they were going there to have fun. Have fun? For the guys in that league, it's not fun, it's their livelihood. I've always been 100 percent for the players. but to take another guy's job is just [wrong]. Those guys are hypocrites. It's just not fair what they're doing. God forbid the [NHL] goes to impasse and guys cross the line, they'd be crucified by the NHL guys. But for them, it's OK."

I am still troubled by one major inconsistancy on the players part. They said they will never agree to a salary cap in an NHL CBA, but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL, but won't agree to NHL level money that would come with an NHL level salary cap. THAT is just silly.

There is nothing profound about the PA's stance. There really isn't anything philosphically superiour about either side's stance.
I could care less about Kevin Kerr, who'd gladly take an NHLers job away from him given half the chance.

This thread is poorly titled, to say the least.

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02-06-2005, 11:44 AM
  #9
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The NHLPA should never have used the word "Never."

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02-06-2005, 11:47 AM
  #10
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C'mon man!

Don't you know that the players are only doing these things cuz Gary Bettman's illegal, unethical, immoral, and incompetent actions are MAKING them do it.

Everybody knows that fine upstanding guys like (beat that big-mouth rookie down) Guerin are all about pride, principle , and goodwill.

Anyone who sides with these pigs is either a sicophant ki$$-a$$ of the highest order or so brainwashed by the nostalgia of Union vs Management battles that they are so far out departed from reality that they don't matter in the first place.

This "Union" is more akin to Millionaires Club for Hummer Owners than it will ever be something of an instrument for fair work practices.

They are one last straw away from killing this sport for 20 years due to their arrogant greed and they couldn't care less.

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02-06-2005, 12:25 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
they don't want a cap there for their sake or the future players. Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?
Are you serious? The players care so much about other people that they absolutly won't have anything to do with a cap but they will take some guy's income so they get to play to "keep in shape"? What a bunch of saints! Go to a **____g gym. I'd like to take some penalty minutes righ about now. Bring it on NHL, ya rich panzies. Grow some and tell Goodie that you are ready to play in your own league. Lets get the damn game on!! I'm so sick of all of this crap!

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02-06-2005, 12:29 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
To tell you the truth it doesn't bother me one bit. All hockey leagues are playing the same sport. If your an NHL hockey player and you want to play in the UHL, and you can make a team, than why shouldn't you be allowed to do it? Taking someone's job is unfortunate, but that's the nature of the sport. It's competition. Making your money playing a sport is not exactly the most secure job, and this guy Kerr should realize that. Besides, wouldn't the guy playing in the UHL do the same thing to an NHL player? If Kerr had the oppurtunity to go play for an NHL team, do you think he would give a damn that he's taking the job of another guy who is trying to play in the NHL?
Would Kerr take any NHL job if it was offered.... OF COURSE HE WOULD! The NHL is the cream of the crop and the dream of any hockey player at whatever level, why wouldn't he jump on the chance to play in the big leagues? Is it his fault he outplays someone at the "best-level" of hockey imaginable? He would be taking someone's job from the NHL because he is better than that person at the level they both should be at, not because he needs to stay in game shape, not because he needs a little money.

Talent level is supposed to rise as you get into the better and better leagues.

Now these cream of the crop players are filtering downward to lesser leagues, some of which have salary caps, the very thing the NHLPA is opposed to. Does that honestly make any sense to anyone?

They want to stay in shape, stay in game condition? Hit the gym, and get other nonworking NHLers together at a rink sometime and play. I'm sure the PA could organize something like this.

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Old
02-06-2005, 12:33 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
If you are pro players not just anti owners, here are a couple of interesting comments that I found in this morning's boston globe.

Veteran minor leaguer Kevin Kerr, who plays for the Flint Generals, said he found it offensive. "The hypocrisy of it is unbelievable," said Kerr. "They don't want a salary cap but they'll come to a league that has a salary cap and take someone else's job."
..."Hockey players are supposed to be brethren," said Cherry. "They said they were going there to have fun. Have fun? For the guys in that league, it's not fun, it's their livelihood. I've always been 100 percent for the players. but to take another guy's job is just [wrong]. Those guys are hypocrites. It's just not fair what they're doing. God forbid the [NHL] goes to impasse and guys cross the line, they'd be crucified by the NHL guys. But for them, it's OK."

I am still troubled by one major inconsistancy on the players part. They said they will never agree to a salary cap in an NHL CBA, but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL, but won't agree to NHL level money that would come with an NHL level salary cap. THAT is just silly.
kevin kerr is voicing his opinion yes. however he is misinfomed. on another thread on this same topic, it clearly shows that no one lost their jobs due to these signings. draper, chelios and hatcher would not sign with the mechanics if it meant that anyone got cut. there were 3 openings on the roster and they are now filled.
why the ownership of the mechanics left 3 spots open is unkoown, but what is known is that these nhl'ers WOULD NOT sign if it meant others would get cut, thereby leaving them w/ no job or income.

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02-06-2005, 12:36 PM
  #14
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Do they then also not interfere with their ice-time? To some at those levels, it is perhaps even more valuable than a minimal pay-check.

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02-06-2005, 12:43 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by HckyFght
The NHLPA should never have used the word "Never."

Maybe not the NHLPA specifically, but some of the players sure have - I dont have the exact quote but but Linden specifically said 'We will never play under a salary cap' - I dont know if that was his exact phrase but the word never and salary cap were there.

I guess when he said 'we' he meant the NHLPA executive committee.

On a side not, I hope he has enough integrity to back that statement up because I never want to see him on the ice again.

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02-06-2005, 01:24 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
What kind of a quote do you expect from a career minor leaguer? He should shut his mouth, the lockout isn't permanent and in due time he will be back leading the freegin Flint Generals.

"but they seem to be willing by the hundreds to sign up to play in european leagues and north american minor leagues that have salary caps. they are willing to work for 10 and 20 cents on the dollar in a salary cap league that is not the NHL"

playing in the minors or europe is a temporary thing, more to keep in shape and make a small amount of money. If they are only playing in the league for half a season why would they care what kind of system they have? On the other hand the NHL is the league where they are going to play their whole careers, they don't want a cap there for their sake or the future players. Besides, no player is playing in the UHL to make money, so why should they worry about wether or not there is a salary cap?
Shortsighted at best. How long could you or any 'normal' person afford to be out of work? I know that if someone bumped me from my job and told me "the lockout isn't permanent and in due time he (I) will be back," it wouldn't be very comforting.

First my family & I have to deal with the lost salary & beenefits. When the league resumes, which could easily be another 1.5 years, I have to deal with the fact that there is another year or two worth of upcomers that are trying to take my spot, the same up-and-comers that have had the opportunity to keep developing for the next 1.5 years, while I stagnate and try to keep skating while working as a mover/ditch digger or whatever else I can do to put food on the table.

Quote:
playing in the minors or europe is a temporary thing, more to keep in shape and make a small amount of money. If they are only playing in the league for half a season why would they care what kind of system they have?
The NHLPA has predicated the entire lockout on principles instead of specific dollar amounts. For them to to go play in a league with a cap shows how commited they really are to those principles. It would be akin to me walking out with my fellow employees because our company uses 3rd world labor and then going to work at Nike in the interm....

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02-06-2005, 03:13 PM
  #17
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Would Kerr take any NHL job if it was offered.... OF COURSE HE WOULD! The NHL is the cream of the crop and the dream of any hockey player at whatever level, why wouldn't he jump on the chance to play in the big leagues? Is it his fault he outplays someone at the "best-level" of hockey imaginable? He would be taking someone's job from the NHL because he is better than that person at the level they both should be at, not because he needs to stay in game shape, not because he needs a little money.

Talent level is supposed to rise as you get into the better and better leagues.

Now these cream of the crop players are filtering downward to lesser leagues, some of which have salary caps, the very thing the NHLPA is opposed to. Does that honestly make any sense to anyone?

They want to stay in shape, stay in game condition? Hit the gym, and get other nonworking NHLers together at a rink sometime and play. I'm sure the PA could organize something like this.
Right of course he would. All hockey players are in the same boat, they work in the same industry. They compete with each other for the best spots, the NHL spots. If a guy previously in the NHL wants to play in a different part of the industry, than so be it. Kerr should **** his mouth and go and beat out one of his teammates for their spot, or go to europe or go to a different league. When you make your living playing pro sports there is no doubt you will constantly be competing for your job, thats the essence of sports.

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02-06-2005, 03:13 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by The Maltais Falcon
NHL players shouldn't be playing in the UHL - they should be picketing their games.
Pickets are for strikes, not lockouts.

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02-06-2005, 03:16 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Marconius
The NHLPA has predicated the entire lockout on principles instead of specific dollar amounts. For them to to go play in a league with a cap shows how commited they really are to those principles. It would be akin to me walking out with my fellow employees because our company uses 3rd world labor and then going to work at Nike in the interm....
The point is NHL players are not trying to make a living playing in these leagues. NHL players will make 95% of their money over their hockey careers, maybe more, playing in the NHL. That is where they will not take a low cap. If they are playing in a league temporarily, I see no reason for them to care what system the league has.

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02-06-2005, 04:16 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by R0CKET

Let's analyze, shall we?

Everybody knows that fine upstanding guys like (beat that big-mouth rookie down) Guerin are all about pride, principle , and goodwill.

First we cynically stereotype all players.

Anyone who sides with these pigs is either a sicophant ki$$-a$$ of the highest order or so brainwashed by the nostalgia of Union vs Management battles that they are so far out departed from reality that they don't matter in the first place.

Then we cynically and pejoratively stereotype anyone who happens to have an opinion on this CBA which differs from our own!

This "Union" is more akin to Millionaires Club for Hummer Owners than it will ever be something of an instrument for fair work practices.

Then we mix in a dose of cla$$-envy.

They are one last straw away from killing this sport for 20 years due to their arrogant greed and they couldn't care less.

And we conclude with a melodramatic doomsday prediction.

Entertaining reading, to be sure!


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02-06-2005, 06:11 PM
  #21
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Pickets are for strikes, not lockouts.
Not true. Locked out workers will picket their place of work too.


Quote:
Kerr should **** his mouth and go and beat out one of his teammates for their spot, or go to europe or go to a different league. When you make your living playing pro sports there is no doubt you will constantly be competing for your job, thats the essence of sports.
I don't think Kerr is in too much danger of losing his spot. As a league leader, it'll take more than 3 NHLers in the league to displace him. He's making a comment based on principle, and he hasn't done anything that we've been told of that violates that principle.

The NHLers on the other hand have been credited with saying they're striking on behalf of the game, and future players coming up. A few of them have also been credited with saying that any NHLPA members crossing the line to suit up as a scab better be careful when the other regulars return. I'm not crediting any of these specifically to those players who have gone to the UHL, but ANYONE should be able to identify a certain level of hypocrisy with NHLers taking spots on other teams. I KNOW the Mechanics didn't cut any positions taking their NHLers... but one has to wonder if they didn't fill those positions because of the potential work stoppage.

Now, before anyone else calls it the fruits of competition in a competition based industry - there's a BIG difference between beating someone out for a spot, and being in a lockout and taking away a job from someone who makes less than half of your LOCKOUT PAY. In almost no conceivable way should a UHLer have to be competing with an NHLer for roster spots, they're worlds apart.

Real life example - striking/locked out autoworkers would NEVER go and run the McDonalds kids out of their jobs, not unless it was necessary to survive and support their families - and NHLers can't claim that level of necessity. They need to stay in game shape? Organize a temp league of their own - they'll get far better workouts playing against the best in the world than they will playing on the Mechanics, or the Iserlohn Roosters.

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02-06-2005, 06:11 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Right of course he would. All hockey players are in the same boat, they work in the same industry. They compete with each other for the best spots, the NHL spots. If a guy previously in the NHL wants to play in a different part of the industry, than so be it. Kerr should **** his mouth and go and beat out one of his teammates for their spot, or go to europe or go to a different league. When you make your living playing pro sports there is no doubt you will constantly be competing for your job, thats the essence of sports.
Why should Kerr shut his mouth? He doesn't have a big savings account and $5000 a month in strike funds. If an NHL player takes his job, he's out of work with a family to support.

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02-06-2005, 06:16 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
The point is NHL players are not trying to make a living playing in these leagues. NHL players will make 95% of their money over their hockey careers, maybe more, playing in the NHL. That is where they will not take a low cap. If they are playing in a league temporarily, I see no reason for them to care what system the league has.
This is exactly why the players are losing the pr war. Because they CLAIM to be doing this purely for the principles, so that the next generation of hockey stars do not have to subsist under draconian regulations.Their actions, by playing in a league with a cap, prove this to be the opposite.

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02-06-2005, 06:26 PM
  #24
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this is the owners lockout.

why get on the players backs for plying their trade in other leagues.

i guess under this rationale, the nhl owners shouldn't be "businessman" in their other industries during the lockout as well ?

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02-06-2005, 06:34 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by hawker14
this is the owners lockout.

why get on the players backs for plying their trade in other leagues.

i guess under this rationale, the nhl owners shouldn't be "businessman" in their other industries during the lockout as well ?
Simple. The PA says they will never work under a salary cap.....except, that is, if its in any other league other than the NHL. To me that is the base definition of hypocritical. They are saying that they won't take $1.3m on average with an NHL salary cap, but they will take $500 a week in another league's salary cap.

Let me also add that Kerr can open his mouth because he doesn't have Goodenow and his goons to force him to recant in 24 hours or less.

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