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Old
03-18-2013, 11:58 AM
  #451
PWJunior
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Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Lazar is who I felt the Islanders would end up with by season's end, and I would pick him over Pulock, personally. Lazar is my favorite player in the draft and is exactly what any team needs: a heart-and-soul player with a great shot and grinder work ethic. He's a battler, a leader, and has speed to burn. You can't help but love the way he plays.

Tavares, Cizikas, Hamonic, and Martin all play the game a similar way. They never give up and do everything they can to win. Lazar would be great to add to that list.
I would have no problem if we wound up with Lazar. I know he's a center, but his style of game should project well to RW. He strikes me as a Callahan type, someone who works his butt off all game (in all situations) and can score at a decent clip.

Since we have Reinhart in the system already, the Isles tend to like drafting players from teams that they are familiar with. CDH and Tony Dehart did play with JT at Oshawa, Strome with Theoret and Graham on Niagara, etc. Curtis Lazar would make sense in that regard.

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03-18-2013, 12:47 PM
  #452
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I would have no problem if we wound up with Lazar. I know he's a center, but his style of game should project well to RW. He strikes me as a Callahan type, someone who works his butt off all game (in all situations) and can score at a decent clip.

Since we have Reinhart in the system already, the Isles tend to like drafting players from teams that they are familiar with. CDH and Tony Dehart did play with JT at Oshawa, Strome with Theoret and Graham on Niagara, etc. Curtis Lazar would make sense in that regard.
I like Lazar, but if Shinkaruk is there, and we pick Lazar, I'd be a little upset. I think Shinkaruk is a better all around player, and though smaller (in weight), he can put on some pounds. I wouldn't cry if we got Lazar, because I'm hoping we come away with a sniper, but I think Shinkaruk is the better player (and is the captain of his team).

Hunter Shinkaruk
Center
Born Oct 13 1994 -- Calgary, ALTA
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 175 -- Shoots L


Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2010-11 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 63 14 28 42 24 13 14 4 5 9 0
2011-12 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 66 49 42 91 38 17 8 2 9 11 6
2012-13 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 64 37 49 86 44 -13

Curtis Lazar
Center
Born Feb 2 1995 -- Vernon, BC
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 189 -- Shoots R


Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2010-11 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 6 0 1 1 0 2 4 1 0 1 0
2011-12 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 63 20 11 31 56 15 20 8 11 19 4
2012-13 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 72 38 23 61 47 25

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03-18-2013, 07:36 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I like Lazar, but if Shinkaruk is there, and we pick Lazar, I'd be a little upset. I think Shinkaruk is a better all around player, and though smaller (in weight), he can put on some pounds. I wouldn't cry if we got Lazar, because I'm hoping we come away with a sniper, but I think Shinkaruk is the better player (and is the captain of his team).

Hunter Shinkaruk
Center
Born Oct 13 1994 -- Calgary, ALTA
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 175 -- Shoots L


Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2010-11 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 63 14 28 42 24 13 14 4 5 9 0
2011-12 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 66 49 42 91 38 17 8 2 9 11 6
2012-13 Medicine Hat Tigers WHL 64 37 49 86 44 -13

Curtis Lazar
Center
Born Feb 2 1995 -- Vernon, BC
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 189 -- Shoots R


Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2010-11 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 6 0 1 1 0 2 4 1 0 1 0
2011-12 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 63 20 11 31 56 15 20 8 11 19 4
2012-13 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 72 38 23 61 47 25
A couple of things to keep in mind with regards to situations like the above:

1-Shinkaruk's a year older than Lazar. Thus he's had an additional year in the WHL in terms of his development. He's also still relatively "small", while Lazar has a year extra on him to put on some bulk (or even grow an inch or so). Scouts may believe Shinkaruk is closer to a finished product (obviously not completely finished) than Lazar, so they might be intrigued by the possibility of Lazar's potential in his third season.

2-Shinkaruk's offensive totals went down from a year ago, whereas Lazar doubled his output. I know points aren't everything, but in terms of improvement from one year to the next, Lazar seems to have made the more noticeable improvement compared to the previous year. Scouts like prospects who are trending upwards, rather than plateauing at a given level.

3-Unrelated to their respective ages, you also have to weigh: what are each player's downside? Upside, it's looking like Shinkaruk has a higher offensive ceiling. However, is he also more of a long shot to reach that ceiling? Scouts might feel Lazar is the "safer" pick, since his downside's probably still a solid 3rd line checker with decent offense, whereas scouts might view Shinkaruk as more of a boom or bust type.

Those who watch the WHL would know a lot more about the situations than I would, so some of that might not even apply to this example. Maybe I'm underrating Shinkaruk's "downside". However, in general, #1 and #2 is something you have to keep in mind when comparing players with a year birthdate apart.

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03-18-2013, 07:54 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Those who watch the WHL would know a lot more about the situations than I would, so some of that might not even apply to this example. Maybe I'm underrating Shinkaruk's "downside". However, in general, #1 and #2 is something you have to keep in mind when comparing players with a year birthdate apart.
No, you're pretty much bang-on with your assessment. I actually like Shinkaruk -- he's got an edge to him. Lazar just has so much more room to grow as a player, even though he's already defensively responsible.

Shinkaruk put up 49 goals in the WHL last year with Etem as his linemate. That's partly why his production dropped this year as Etem graduated to the pros. Lazar on the other hand has scored his 38 goals this year by his own merit -- not to say Shinkaruk can't do it on his own, but his goal total was augmented last year.

Shinkaruk is similar to Strome in that he's offensively there already, he needs to work on his defensive zone play now. Lazar on the other hand has more room to develop offensively in the WHL.

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03-19-2013, 07:06 AM
  #455
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I like Lazar, but if Shinkaruk is there, and we pick Lazar, I'd be a little upset.
What we can likely assume is that the Isles have seen a lot of Lazar over the past two seasons.

They'll have a somewhat strong opinion about him one way or another.

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03-19-2013, 09:30 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
A couple of things to keep in mind with regards to situations like the above:

1-Shinkaruk's a year older than Lazar. Thus he's had an additional year in the WHL in terms of his development. He's also still relatively "small", while Lazar has a year extra on him to put on some bulk (or even grow an inch or so). Scouts may believe Shinkaruk is closer to a finished product (obviously not completely finished) than Lazar, so they might be intrigued by the possibility of Lazar's potential in his third season.

2-Shinkaruk's offensive totals went down from a year ago, whereas Lazar doubled his output. I know points aren't everything, but in terms of improvement from one year to the next, Lazar seems to have made the more noticeable improvement compared to the previous year. Scouts like prospects who are trending upwards, rather than plateauing at a given level.

3-Unrelated to their respective ages, you also have to weigh: what are each player's downside? Upside, it's looking like Shinkaruk has a higher offensive ceiling. However, is he also more of a long shot to reach that ceiling? Scouts might feel Lazar is the "safer" pick, since his downside's probably still a solid 3rd line checker with decent offense, whereas scouts might view Shinkaruk as more of a boom or bust type.

Those who watch the WHL would know a lot more about the situations than I would, so some of that might not even apply to this example. Maybe I'm underrating Shinkaruk's "downside". However, in general, #1 and #2 is something you have to keep in mind when comparing players with a year birthdate apart.
In response to #1, Shinkaruk is FOUR months older, not a year older than Lazar.

In response to #2, Shinkaruk is the captain of the YOUNGEST team in his league. No established drafted players on that team, as opposed to Lazar who has St Croix, Samuelsson, Lowe, Reinhart, Musil, etc.

I'm not knocking Lazar, but as a center, he has 15 more goals than assists. Whereas Shinkaruk as a center is a sniper, AND still has 12 more assists than goals. I'd be happy with either one, but I'd be more happy with Shinkaruk, who's already a captain of his team.

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03-19-2013, 11:31 AM
  #457
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In response to #1, Shinkaruk is FOUR months older, not a year older than Lazar.

In response to #2, Shinkaruk is the captain of the YOUNGEST team in his league. No established drafted players on that team, as opposed to Lazar who has St Croix, Samuelsson, Lowe, Reinhart, Musil, etc.

I'm not knocking Lazar, but as a center, he has 15 more goals than assists. Whereas Shinkaruk as a center is a sniper, AND still has 12 more assists than goals. I'd be happy with either one, but I'd be more happy with Shinkaruk, who's already a captain of his team.
As I said above, I don't know enough about either player's situation to debate too much about the second two paragraphs. But in regards to the first, you have to keep in mind that due to birth year Shinkaruk's a year ahead of Lazar in terms of development because the WHL goes by year of birth to determine when you're allowed to start playing in the league, despite the actual age only being 4 months apart.

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03-21-2013, 08:23 PM
  #458
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Is there any great goalies in this draft?

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03-21-2013, 08:45 PM
  #459
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Is there any great goalies in this draft?
Zach Fucale is probably the top goaltender this year.

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03-21-2013, 11:20 PM
  #460
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Zach Fucale is probably the top goaltender this year.
Itlooks like we will have a pick in the 6-12 range...

If we had a mid round pick would anyone be mad if we took Fucale?

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Old
03-21-2013, 11:24 PM
  #461
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Itlooks like we will have a pick in the 6-12 range...

If we had a mid round pick would anyone be mad if we took Fucale?
I would if the Isles only had one first round pick. If Garth sells one of Streit or Vis at the deadline and aquires a first or second pick which ends up becoming Fucale, I wouldn't be mad.

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03-21-2013, 11:32 PM
  #462
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I would if the Isles only had one first round pick. If Garth sells one of Streit or Vis at the deadline and aquires a first or second pick which ends up becoming Fucale, I wouldn't be mad.
I wouldn't mind that scenario either, I think the system could use another goaltender.

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03-22-2013, 12:49 AM
  #463
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I wouldn't mind that scenario either, I think the system could use another goaltender.
I think we will be picking a goalie somwhere in this draft...

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:16 AM
  #464
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I think we will be picking a goalie somwhere in this draft...
Let's hope they get a good one then. We need one (or two)!

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I wouldn't mind that scenario either, I think the system could use another goaltender.
what happened to the saviors? Nilsson? Koskinen? Poulin? have we soured on these guys already? Where's the patience with the rebuild? the young players?

Have we given up on these guys because Poulin's struggling in the NHL after struggling in the AHL?

Drafting another goalie in 2013 will only create more questions until that goalie maybe makes the NHL by 2018, if we're lucky. Poulin was a STAR in junior. Nilsson and Koskinen were stars in Europe, playing professional hockey vs. men, not boys. They all have shown flashes of good and bad. They're all young. There are no guarantees when it comes to prospects, and goalies are the least predictable, defensemen next, forwards the easiest.

Bottom line, I wouldn't look to the draft to address goaltending issues. Far too risky and timelines far too long. Though Jacob Markstrom looked really good in the AHL last year (saw him a few times) and made 44 saves to shatter the NYR earlier!

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03-22-2013, 01:29 AM
  #465
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As a matter of personal opinion, I absolutely hate the idea of using a 1st round pick on a goalie. Just a thing of mine. The goalie position is just too much of a crap shoot, more so than the other positions, IMO.

One big reason for me is the "floor projection". With goalies, there are only two possible favorable outcomes, otherwise you've got a bust. The favorable outcomes are they become a #1 or they become a backup. Every other scenario and the goalie is a bust for you. And even if they become a backup, it's almost like they're a bust. Imagine taking a guy 5th overall and him not being good enough to play more than 15 games a season?

Compare that to, say, drafting a forward. You hope they turn into a top line forward, but even if that doesn't quite work out, hopefully they become a second line forward. Still not quite working out? They become a solid third line checker. Not good enough for that? Well, maybe at least they can be depth players on the 4th line. In effect, the forward has to go through 4 "tiers" before they are absolutely useless to your club. Look at a guy like Jordan Staal. He might not max out as a "top line" guy, but he's still a huge asset to a club.

Similar for defensemen. You hope for a top pairing guy, you're satisfied as long as they become a top four guy, and you're somewhat frustrated but otherwise are accepting if they end up as a bottom pairing guy. You look at a guy like Erik Johnson. He probably hasn't lived up to his hype at the draft, but at the same time he's still a legitimate top four defenseman.

IMO, there's more wiggle room when it comes to picking forwards and defensemen. They don't have to "max out" or "reach their ceiling" in order to contribute to your club. Goalies, on the other hand, pretty much have to become a #1 guy or they're a bad pick.

If I was a GM (and perhaps teams are lucky I'm not a GM, otherwise my team's goalie pool might be small ), I'd never use a 1st round pick on a goalie, no matter how highly rated. Forwards first, defense second. Then I'd start worrying about my goalie depth when round 2 and beyond comes along.

/rant about picking goalies high

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03-22-2013, 04:39 AM
  #466
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Itlooks like we will have a pick in the 6-12 range...

If we had a mid round pick would anyone be mad if we took Fucale?
I'd be surprised if Snow used a first rounder on a goalie.It would indicate he's given up on Nilson/Poiulin/Koskinen.

http://translate.google.com/translat...-orken&act=url
This season has not been as successful. Early in the season felt 23-year-old that something was not right in the body. In an interview with Norrbotten Courier he says that he had no strength and energy, always felt tired.
- I have felt heavy in the head and has been able to sleep ten hours straight during the night without waking up rested, he tells Courier.
- After breakfast I wanted to go to sleep again. I missed dryer.

After the New Year began his club investigate what might be wrong with the great goalkeeper. The answer was that Nilsson suffered from vitamin deficiency.

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03-22-2013, 06:32 AM
  #467
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I'd be surprised if Snow used a first rounder on a goalie.It would indicate he's given up on Nilson/Poiulin/Koskinen.
Well at this point what have you seen in those 3 and the only other goalie we have is old. We need guys who can stop pucks i think the offense is not a problem, here we need guys who keep the puck out of the net. That being said i would not use a top 10 pick on a goalie.

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03-22-2013, 07:23 AM
  #468
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Well at this point what have you seen in those 3 and the only other goalie we have is old. We need guys who can stop pucks i think the offense is not a problem, here we need guys who keep the puck out of the net. That being said i would not use a top 10 pick on a goalie.


1.Nilson's ill and his illness wasn't diagnosed until March 2013. I provided the link above.

2.Poulin's followed up a good 1st AHL season, with an erractic and disappointing 2nd season.Poulin and Nilson are less then 1 yr removed from leading the Sound Tigers to the division crown.

3.Koskinen is having a good season in Europe.

So, one goalie has played badly, another has had his season wiped out by a mysterious illness and the 3rd is having a good season.

If Snow is able to land a second first rounder, I expect he would look to position himself to gamble on Valeri Nichushkin, the talented Russian who'll have two more yrs on his KHL contract by the time the NHL draft takes place. It's a risk because of Nichushkin's KHL contract, will he sign an extension in 2 yrs or come over to whichever NHL team drafts him?

I doubt Snow gambles his own first rounder on Valeri Nichushkin, especially after the disappointment of not having Petrov come over when his KHL contract ended. But, having an extra first rounder allows him to gamble.

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03-22-2013, 07:46 AM
  #469
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Let's hope they get a good one then. We need one (or two)!



what happened to the saviors? Nilsson? Koskinen? Poulin? have we soured on these guys already? Where's the patience with the rebuild? the young players?

Have we given up on these guys because Poulin's struggling in the NHL after struggling in the AHL?

Drafting another goalie in 2013 will only create more questions until that goalie maybe makes the NHL by 2018, if we're lucky. Poulin was a STAR in junior. Nilsson and Koskinen were stars in Europe, playing professional hockey vs. men, not boys. They all have shown flashes of good and bad. They're all young. There are no guarantees when it comes to prospects, and goalies are the least predictable, defensemen next, forwards the easiest.

Bottom line, I wouldn't look to the draft to address goaltending issues. Far too risky and timelines far too long. Though Jacob Markstrom looked really good in the AHL last year (saw him a few times) and made 44 saves to shatter the NYR earlier!
I haven't given up on our young goalies, but there are still question marks surrounding all of them. I just think it would be wise to select a goalie as our system lacks any goalie prospects at the Junior level. Adding a developmental goalie wouldn't be a bad idea IMO because you have to keep the talent pipeline going.

I am not advocating using our own 1st rounder on a goalie, but if we have a late 1st or early 2nd (from the trade deadline) and the top ranked goalies are there... I wouldn't hate the move is all I'm saying. It's all about hedging our bets, but I understand if goalies are acquired via FA, trade, etc.

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03-22-2013, 07:55 AM
  #470
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Itlooks like we will have a pick in the 6-12 range...

If we had a mid round pick would anyone be mad if we took Fucale?
Seen Fucale play a bunch in the last two years here in Halifax. He's a great goalie. I wouldn't mind him being an Isle at all.

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03-22-2013, 08:44 AM
  #471
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Seen Fucale play a bunch in the last two years here in Halifax. He's a great goalie. I wouldn't mind him being an Isle at all.
To continue the drafting a goalie with a high pick discussion, I think the timing is right for the Isles to possibly add one this year. Our 1st rounder should be BPA, but I wouldn't mind a goalie any time after that. If we do indeed have another late 1st or an early 2nd, I'd love to add Fucale to the mix.

Fucale is probably 4-5 years away. Another 2 years in Halifax and it's off to Bridgeport for him. He could spend another 2 years there and then be ready for the NHL. That gives the Isles flexibility at the position as I think that you have to have a steady prospect pool to succeed in the salary cap era. If Fucale really is the goods, then great for us. If not, then I think it's still a risk worth taking when you look at the Isles system. Otherwise, I'd like to see a developmental goalie taken somewhere in this year's draft.

I would be really happy if we traded for someone like Bernier, a package including a late 1st/early 2nd may be enticing to the Kings.

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03-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #472
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As a matter of personal opinion, I absolutely hate the idea of using a 1st round pick on a goalie. Just a thing of mine. The goalie position is just too much of a crap shoot, more so than the other positions, IMO.

One big reason for me is the "floor projection". With goalies, there are only two possible favorable outcomes, otherwise you've got a bust. The favorable outcomes are they become a #1 or they become a backup. Every other scenario and the goalie is a bust for you. And even if they become a backup, it's almost like they're a bust. Imagine taking a guy 5th overall and him not being good enough to play more than 15 games a season?

Compare that to, say, drafting a forward. You hope they turn into a top line forward, but even if that doesn't quite work out, hopefully they become a second line forward. Still not quite working out? They become a solid third line checker. Not good enough for that? Well, maybe at least they can be depth players on the 4th line. In effect, the forward has to go through 4 "tiers" before they are absolutely useless to your club. Look at a guy like Jordan Staal. He might not max out as a "top line" guy, but he's still a huge asset to a club.

Similar for defensemen. You hope for a top pairing guy, you're satisfied as long as they become a top four guy, and you're somewhat frustrated but otherwise are accepting if they end up as a bottom pairing guy. You look at a guy like Erik Johnson. He probably hasn't lived up to his hype at the draft, but at the same time he's still a legitimate top four defenseman.

IMO, there's more wiggle room when it comes to picking forwards and defensemen. They don't have to "max out" or "reach their ceiling" in order to contribute to your club. Goalies, on the other hand, pretty much have to become a #1 guy or they're a bad pick.

If I was a GM (and perhaps teams are lucky I'm not a GM, otherwise my team's goalie pool might be small ), I'd never use a 1st round pick on a goalie, no matter how highly rated. Forwards first, defense second. Then I'd start worrying about my goalie depth when round 2 and beyond comes along.

/rant about picking goalies high
I have really grown to like your posts Sid. This is pretty much how I feel about the concept of drafting goaltenders so high. It really is an all or nothing proposition with the worst win/fail ratio of all the positions. When you consider how many good goaltenders came from all over the draft rounds it seems like a monumental mistake to take one from the first round.

I would also add that while post-draft development of every prospect is important, it seems like the make or break factor with goaltenders more than the rest. Like you said, the other positions can still contribute when only yielding average results while an average goaltender is barely a backup.

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03-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #473
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I don't think any gimmick draft would help us. Drafting ALL defensemen last draft was bad. Going BPA every single year, we collect great assets or duds. But we try every selection to grab the best player we can. Period.

I don't like drafting goalies early, obviously, so I agree with Sid. So we draft and build and see need and pretend we have a GM to make trades to bring in what we don't have as a normal team would.

I'd trade the first rounder for a quality 1st line winger, FWIW. Easily. We need one moreso than anything else. If we can draft a high quality winger or center, though....I make trades with other assets. But we don't have a GM so we're drafting what we need and signing scrubs to fill in the spots until our Papineaus and Lachances are mature.

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03-27-2013, 11:10 PM
  #474
seafoam
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I hate to bump this thread but Valentin Zykov has been climbing the ladder all year.

The Russian right winger is the leading scorer for all rookies in the QMJHL averaging over a PPG with 40 goals (only other rookies to score 40 were Crosby and Grigorenko) shoots right handed and possess a deadly shot. A scout described his play from the hashmarks to the net as good as any 2013 draft eligible player in the QMJHL. From what else I have read it sounds like he competes in all zones and his board play stands out. His skating seems to be his weakest point.

With guys like Nino and Kabanov in the system as well as Lee and Nelson, Zykov seems kind of redundant but he sounds like the perfect linemate for JT judging from his board play, ability to create plays from the offensive zone, bury pucks, crash the net for rebounds, and right handed shot.

I have him pegged as a mid to late first round pick.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9#post62578999

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=155382

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Old
03-28-2013, 08:27 AM
  #475
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
I hate to bump this thread but Valentin Zykov has been climbing the ladder all year.
You dare bump this thread whilst we're in the middle of a playoff race?

Are you crazy?:-)

An interesting name. Sounds like someone a team like Calgary (with their new extra first) might chance it on. That pick they grabbed yesterday should be about 28-30th when all is said and done.

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