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Old
01-11-2013, 08:31 PM
  #151
turkulad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
If Nielsen were to be traded, which I don't see happening, the return would be a lot better than Bozak and Ballard. Frans would be one of the better third line centers in the league if he played there. On top on that, he provides versatility and leadership to a very young team on a great contract. Also, why would Garth ship off arguably our best puck moving defenseman prospect who he just drafted and came off a strong WJC for Keith Ballard who has been underwhelming for Vancouver and carries a big contract?
Sorry, I thought Reinhart, De Haan and Hamonic were above him depthwise, with Ness and Donovan on the same region valuewise. But do you think that even if we'd lose Pokka off the deal, Ballard, an underwhelming guy for the Nucks for sure but also severely misutilized there and still very much a Top4 defenseman, and Bozak, who's done the 1C duty alongside Kessel for Toronto and has the same number of points as Frans with less games, wouldn't cut it as a 2-for-1.. well then, okay, I am at a loss and will just say, okay then.

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01-11-2013, 09:17 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Sorry, I thought Reinhart, De Haan and Hamonic were above him depthwise, with Ness and Donovan on the same region valuewise. But do you think that even if we'd lose Pokka off the deal, Ballard, an underwhelming guy for the Nucks for sure but also severely misutilized there and still very much a Top4 defenseman, and Bozak, who's done the 1C duty alongside Kessel for Toronto and has the same number of points as Frans with less games, wouldn't cut it as a 2-for-1.. well then, okay, I am at a loss and will just say, okay then.
Hamonic is already a top four defenseman for the Isles, I was talking strictly prospects. Reinhart is a defensive defenseman right now with upside to be a complete number one defenseman. Ness is looking like a Career AHL player with upside to be a depth defenseman and Donovan hasn't exactly found out how to play in his own zone yet. Pokka thinks the game well offensively and defensively and knows where to be, he is a unique prospect. Plus, if the Visnovsky drama has told us anything, it would be that you can never have too many defenseman.

Nielsen just is not expendable at this point in time, nor do his point totals tell his whole story.

He is a key cog in the Islanders' center depth at this time. He centers the second line and has good chemistry with anyone, he kills penalties, and plays the powerplay. He also has a lot of his shifts start in the defensive zone and yet still maintains a positive plus minus on a very bad Islanders team. He is simply worth more to the Isles than to anyone else and he loves to play on Long Island and he is a veteran who brings leadership on the ice. Hopefully Strome takes the second line center position within the next two years allowing Frans to slide down to the third line center position, where he fits so well. There, he won't be counted on to score, but to focus on special teams.

There is no reason to swap a player like Frans for Bozak and Ballard.

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01-11-2013, 09:22 PM
  #153
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Bozak is unknown to Isles management and Ballard brings a big contract, which the Isles have shown they stay away from, regardless if he can play top four minutes or not.

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01-12-2013, 05:02 AM
  #154
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I have to agree. Nielsen is unique to hockey in that he is very talented in both ends.....his only knock is that he is on the smaller side. He is to the Islanders like a Designated Hitter is to Baseball. His shootout talents alone make him valuable to this team.

Trading Ballard would seem like a salary dump to me, but I'd still be interested, just not Nielsen. What are you trying to replace? I'd do a straight up trade with Kyle Okposo. Some people here would cry about that one, but we have many people to replace him and it's easier to replace a forward than a top dman. Either that or a 1st pick 2014 straight up for Ballard, but not sure if we want to trade firsts. Could also do a Grabner and a prospect like Lee/Ness/Rakshani/...I don't know..who do you fancy....Pokka is too fresh to give up just yet, but we got a lot more dmen in the pipeline...I think 19 or so in total...we got A LOT. 8-) Most of them need another 2-5 years to develop..that is our problem.

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01-12-2013, 05:31 AM
  #155
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Well Frans is one of those pieces we just salivate over because he's one of the most legit 3rd line centermen in the league. So I understand that if Ballard+Bozak doesn't cut it, it doesn't cut it.

And well, if you are really saying Ballard for Okposo would be a good hockey trade for NYI I think Vancouver would be all over that. But if this only a marginal view (and I say I'm a bit surprised Okposo is available), I wouldn't go around advertising it because I think a lot of us would be all over it. Vancouver fans consider the 3rd line center spot their most dire need that everyone seems to relate with, but beefing up the second line is the instant second on that list, and Okposo could certainly function in this regard and make letting Ballard go easier right now rather than later in the season (or next year), because we could try Booth-Kesler-Okposo once Kess comes back. Ness AKA career AHL player we have no need for, and don't know too much about your other prospects to be enthusiastic about a particular one. Pokka was someone I also added because knew his play from Finland and the WJC, and I've been yearning for a Finn in our roster ever since Salo left.

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01-12-2013, 05:54 AM
  #156
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I didn't realize Ballard's point production went downhill since he joined the 'nucks. Who does he play with now and which special teams does he play on? About Okposo..I don't have a man crush like most Isles fans, but if Ballard is a legit top 4 and can be so for the next 3ish years, then I personally would be good with that. We don't all think alike regarding players. Ness may be a career AHLer to one, but he'll be a regular in about 2 years to me. People don't like him because he's not tall. He's got a cannon of a shot....though not as accurate as I'd like. Bottom line is that he is a hard worker and I personally like diggers and grinders. Regarding Okposo...to others, he's got what it takes to play top line...to me..He's young, has an excellent wrister, great accuracy, a decent one timer and above average hands...however, he's streaky (again..my opinion). He's hot, then he's not...hot, not over and over again. He also doesn't use his size....He should play like Cam Neely! At least in Bailey's case..he got injured..then fizzled away until we put him on wing..after that..he stayed hot.

We got Casey Cizikas (I can never spell his name right) who would make a good third line center. Opens things up...real hard worker. good passer. We need a dman more than we need a center at this point, so casey and a pick or Okposo for me. Just curious about Ballards point productivity, or lack thereof. Might have to change the trade..I just wasn't aware ..I don't watch him play, but I hear a lot about him.

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01-12-2013, 06:08 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
I didn't realize Ballard's point production went downhill since he joined the 'nucks. Who does he play with now and which special teams does he play on? About Okposo..I don't have a man crush like most Isles fans, but if Ballard is a legit top 4 and can be so for the next 3ish years, then I personally would be good with that. We don't all think alike regarding players. Ness may be a career AHLer to one, but he'll be a regular in about 2 years to me. People don't like him because he's not tall. He's got a cannon of a shot....though not as accurate as I'd like. Bottom line is that he is a hard worker and I personally like diggers and grinders. Regarding Okposo...to others, he's got what it takes to play top line...to me..He's young, has an excellent wrister, great accuracy, a decent one timer and above average hands...however, he's streaky (again..my opinion). He's hot, then he's not...hot, not over and over again. He also doesn't use his size....He should play like Cam Neely! At least in Bailey's case..he got injured..then fizzled away until we put him on wing..after that..he stayed hot.

We got Casey Cizikas (I can never spell his name right) who would make a good third line center. Opens things up...real hard worker. good passer. We need a dman more than we need a center at this point, so casey and a pick or Okposo for me. Just curious about Ballards point productivity, or lack thereof. Might have to change the trade..I just wasn't aware ..I don't watch him play, but I hear a lot about him.
Well Ballard's value is one of those things you genuinely have to observe for yourself. The stats tell a sad story about what being stuck in our coach's doghouse really does to you, and what it does to one's self conscious when you're being "outplayed" by Aaron ******* Rome as we fans call him. Ballard was a let-down consider the price we got him at, that's for sure, but people are 50/50 on the reasons they want him out: he is too costly for a third-pairer (and can't outshine Hamhuis/Bieksa/Edler/Garrison, couldn't outshine the corps with Salo), but also many us feel (including me) that AV has misutilized him from the beginning so much we just want him to go somewhere where he has a genuine top-pairing slot and another coach so he can start shining again. His hip checks are still sweet and no one has ever (at least I can't recall) tried to prove his lack with CORSI etc., so he's just really been in a bad situation. Obviously he's value isn't the value of a surefire defenseman based on last season, but he isn't a cap dump either. I'm sure the GM's still know that his value is there, even if the situation definitely affects any trade negotiations.

If I'd know more about Cizikas I could also talk about him, but can't evaluate his talent so Okposo would be a preference, 1-for-1. And I think Cizikas+pick might be outbid somewhere else either way.

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01-12-2013, 06:42 AM
  #158
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
NYI give up: Frans Nielsen, Ville Pokka
NYI receive: Tyler Bozak, Keith Ballard
Three things...

1) Nielsen's intrinsic value as being one of the league's most underrated players (as chosen by the players) as well as a valued two-way center who also plays on the PP AND who has a sweetheart deal far exceeds that of a Bozak, whose offensive limit we don't know (although he and Frans put out the same numbers), but who clearly isn't the two-way presence Frans is and Ballard, a guy who hasn't even been a top six Dman in recent years, yet carries the salary of a top 3 Dman.

2) In other trade talks that have included Ballard -> NYI, and there have been many on these boards, folks around these parts have been hesitant to trade even a 4th straight up for Ballard. He could help this current NYI blueline, but his overall value has dropped considerably in recent years due to what he's been paid in light of an ever-decreasing role on a team that has played some no-name prospects ahead of him at critical playoff junctures.

3) Despite some higher-ranked players still on the board when the Isles picked 34th last summer (such as i.e. Finn and Aberg), the team grabbed Ville Pokka who is already playing this entire season as a regular in the SM-Liiga (as you surely know) and who was just named Finland's top player at the WJC (albeit on a team that disappointed and, having been there myself, Pokka was not without his gaffes along the way). There seems to be a very specific reason as to why this team plucked him up at that point in the draft and I think they'd hardly be ready to deal him at this point, especially in a deal for guys with the question marks both Bozak and Ballard bring with them. In fact, I'd say that none of Reinhart, Pokka or Pelech is going anywhere any time soon.

In short, I don't believe Mr. Snow would have any interest in departing with either Frans or Pokka in deals including the suggested players.

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01-12-2013, 06:56 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Three things...

1) Nielsen's intrinsic value as being one of the league's most underrated players (as chosen by the players) as well as a valued two-way center who also plays on the PP AND who has a sweetheart deal far exceeds that of a Bozak, whose offensive limit we don't know (although he and Frans put out the same numbers), but who clearly isn't the two-way presence Frans is and Ballard, a guy who hasn't even been a top six Dman in recent years, yet carries the salary of a top 3 Dman.

2) In other trade talks that have included Ballard -> NYI, and there have been many on these boards, folks around these parts have been hesitant to trade even a 4th straight up for Ballard. He could help this current NYI blueline, but his overall value has dropped considerably in recent years due to what he's been paid in light of an ever-decreasing role on a team that has played some no-name prospects ahead of him at critical playoff junctures.

3) Despite some higher-ranked players still on the board when the Isles picked 34th last summer (such as i.e. Finn and Aberg), the team grabbed Ville Pokka who is already playing this entire season as a regular in the SM-Liiga (as you surely know) and who was just named Finland's top player at the WJC (albeit on a team that disappointed and, having been there myself, Pokka was not without his gaffes along the way). There seems to be a very specific reason as to why this team plucked him up at that point in the draft and I think they'd hardly be ready to deal him at this point, especially in a deal for guys with the question marks both Bozak and Ballard bring with them. In fact, I'd say that none of Reinhart, Pokka or Pelech is going anywhere any time soon.

In short, I don't believe Mr. Snow would have any interest in departing with either Frans or Pokka in deals including the suggested players.
Fair enough, thanks for the assessment. Have to defend Ballard a bit though and point out AV as the biggest single reason his value is at low as it is, but the "wouldn't even give a fourth" thing I did not know and if such thing is genuinely the common opinion here I have to stop thinking about VAN/NYI trade scenarios altogether

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01-12-2013, 07:40 AM
  #160
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Did I just two proposals for Ballard with Okposo and Frans Nielsen? If youre gonna overpay, overpay for a Yandle or A Subban, not a guy whose played bottom pairing with spot duty in the top four. I like Ballard but a guy at his price in a salary capped league isnt netting either of those two.

PK and Yandle are impact players, dont move valuable assets imdividually for hole fillers at best. Package them for a building block. Isles can offer a quality players to stock a teams prospect pool and can kiss first rounders goodbye. Kessel was had for two firsts. We can match that and then some for a quality young dman.


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01-12-2013, 09:10 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post

Nielsen just is not expendable at this point in time, nor do his point totals tell his whole story.

He is a key cog in the Islanders' center depth at this time. He centers the second line and has good chemistry with anyone, he kills penalties, and plays the powerplay. He also has a lot of his shifts start in the defensive zone and yet still maintains a positive plus minus on a very bad Islanders team. He is simply worth more to the Isles than to anyone else and he loves to play on Long Island and he is a veteran who brings leadership on the ice.

There is no reason to swap a player like Frans for Bozak and Ballard.
dont forget the 3-4 points nielsen wins over a whole season in shootouts. This guy is too good a 3rd line c to give away.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:47 AM
  #162
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Bailey to miss 2-4 weeks after having knee scoped in Germany and Joensuu has groin problems, won't be ready for camp. Per Arthur Staple.

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01-12-2013, 10:55 AM
  #163
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I have a feeling a lot of our prospects will get a 6 game look. We just don't have the depth to fill all the missing spots. This is getting more stupid by the moment.

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01-12-2013, 11:06 AM
  #164
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I don't think the holes in the top 9 are a big issue. We have forward prospects galore who can argue for a short tour with the NHL club. It's the loss, now confirmed, of Lube which will hurt the most. If that doesn't get resolved soon then welcome the fall for Jones.

I guess you could say that thanks to Vis we just got.... BONED for Jones.

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01-13-2013, 04:47 PM
  #165
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Here's how I see our forwards shaping up with Nino and Nelson coming aboard next year (Kabanov and Sundstrom to follow a year later):

Moulson - Tavares - Nino
Bailey - Strome - Okposo
Nelson - Nielsen - Grabner
Martin - Cizikas - Ullstrom

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02-17-2013, 11:46 AM
  #166
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Bump

A few things we know so far...

Strait is signed for another 3 years
Cizikas is a legit NHLer, Ullstrom too
Nino ad Brock are big and having very good year in the AHL
Donovan is BPORTs best defenman and could/should be here...

We cant predict extentions/trades/and FA Signings


Moulson-Tavares-Strome/Nino/other

Bailey-Nielsen-Grabner

Nino/other-Nelson-Okposo

Martin-Cizikas-Ullstrom


Amac-Hammer
Strait-Donovan
Reinhart/other-Carkner


Poulin/Nilsson/other
DP

Obviously if we resign Striet and/or Boyes things look very different....Thoughts?

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02-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #167
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I think Boyes is coming back..... wouldn't be surprised to see one of Okposo or Bailey gone (or both).

Moulson Tavares Boyes
Grabner Neilsen ??????
??????? Nelson Nino (Eventually, would be our #2. Anders Lee might look nice on this LW)
Martin Cizikas Ullstrom

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:46 PM
  #168
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What I'd like to see, if no trades/UFA signings happen:

Bailey-Tavares-Niederreiter
Moulson-Strome-Nelson
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Martin-Cizikas-Ullstrom

But since they'll probably never take Moulson away from JT, I'd go with this:

Moulson-Tavares-Strome
Bailey-Nelson-Niederreiter
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Martin-Cizikas-Ullstrom

These young guys are going to have to be in the lineup at some point. I'm not expecting them to all come in with 50 point seasons but IMO Strome, Nino, and Nelson will all be here next year. I wouldn't be surprised if Okposo was dealt, we signed a top 6 winger, and slid one of the youngsters down to the 3rd line.

On defense, assuming Streit is back and Visnovsky is not:

Strait-Hamonic
MacDonald-Streit
Donovan-Carkner
Hickey/Finley as extras. Maybe de Haan if he took a NHL ready potion to heal himself. Reinhart will likely be in the mix although I'd give him another year.

I hope Nabby is re-signed or we go and get a UFA goalie (Howard?) but Nilsson and Poulin will likely battle it out for playing time. They have to do something with Rick, since we can't even trust him to be our backup.

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02-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #169
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Letting Bailey go would be a HUGE mistake...unless its in a deal for a big time player.

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02-17-2013, 02:29 PM
  #170
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Letting Bailey go would be a HUGE mistake...unless its in a deal for a big time player.
agreed, i will be pissed if they let him go

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02-17-2013, 04:42 PM
  #171
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My crystal ball

Isles getting better but won't make playoffs this year.

KO is traded along with Nabby for G Bernier ( once were out of the race )
Streit traded for either a #1 or 2nd rd pick ( JT captain next year )
Vis traded for either a # 1 or 2nd rd pick ( we get at least one # 1 pick for either Streit or Vis)
Nielsen, Nino, Donovan and #1 for Bobby Ryan & Sbisa at draft
Sign UFA dman - Regehr
Buyout the Rick

Lines:

Moulson - JT - Ryan
Bailey - Strome- Grabner
Ullstrom- Nelson - Joensuu ?
Martin -Cizikas- McDonald

Hammer- Amac
Sbisa- Regehr
Strait - Reinhart/ Carkner
Hickey - Finley

Bernier
Poulin/ Nilsson

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02-17-2013, 05:41 PM
  #172
Seto
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Thinking within the realm of reality, it seems Snow wants Streit on the team for a long time so he will not trade him. Resigning Visnovsky would be a huge bonus.

1. Streit
2. (Visnovsky)
2. Hamonic
3. MacDonald
4. Strait
5. Carker
6. Reinhart
7. Donovan
8. de Haan

Decent, but better

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02-17-2013, 06:36 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesRock4 View Post
What I'd like to see, if no trades/UFA signings happen:

Bailey-Tavares-Niederreiter
Moulson-Strome-Nelson
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Martin-Cizikas-Ullstrom

But since they'll probably never take Moulson away from JT, I'd go with this:

Moulson-Tavares-Strome
Bailey-Nelson-Niederreiter
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Martin-Cizikas-Ullstrom

These young guys are going to have to be in the lineup at some point. I'm not expecting them to all come in with 50 point seasons but IMO Strome, Nino, and Nelson will all be here next year. I wouldn't be surprised if Okposo was dealt, we signed a top 6 winger, and slid one of the youngsters down to the 3rd line.

On defense, assuming Streit is back and Visnovsky is not:

Strait-Hamonic
MacDonald-Streit
Donovan-Carkner
Hickey/Finley as extras. Maybe de Haan if he took a NHL ready potion to heal himself. Reinhart will likely be in the mix although I'd give him another year.

I hope Nabby is re-signed or we go and get a UFA goalie (Howard?) but Nilsson and Poulin will likely battle it out for playing time. They have to do something with Rick, since we can't even trust him to be our backup.
Boyes and Aucoin will be back and the Isles will bring in Semin

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02-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #174
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Boyes and Aucoin will be back and the Isles will bring in Semin
Wang could force Semin right down Garths throat...



That way Snow will have no choice but to go after him.....


IMO Semin stays in CAR

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Old
02-17-2013, 07:52 PM
  #175
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Moulson - JT - Strome
Bailey - Nelson - Nino
Grabner - Nielsen - Ullstrom
Martin - Cizikas - UFA/McDonald

Gone: Okposo

This is Garth's big opportunity to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade to put the team over the top.

Assuming he stays the course, that (^^^) is what the roster will look like.

Okposo's time is up though. I think he'll be traded, but I just don't want to think of who will be packaged with him. I hope not Nino because we need size up front. But if there's a blockbuster deal to be made, it'll most likely involve Nino.

If we're getting Bobby Ryan in return and he signs long-term, it'll be worth it.

Not gonna speculate on defense. We need a top 4 d-man, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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