HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-09-2012, 05:01 PM
  #426
powerstuck
User Registered
 
powerstuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Serbia
Posts: 2,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
I'm convinced the NHL doesn't mind the Coyotes moving. They simply want to have Jamison as the owner, and want one of Seattle or Quebec to have a stadium ready and waiting. At that time, they'll have the owner in place that they want, they'll allow him to move the team where he chooses, and whatever markets are left after his decision, will receive expansion franchises as long they're ready to go. I don't think the NHL has any illusions that Phoenix may actually be salvageable. They need to stay put until everything else is situated in these other markets.
Well, I don't know if NHL really wants that (Jamison as an owner) but I can tell you this, both guys in Quebec (PK Peladeau) and Seattle (Hansen) are not currently participating in building a new arena in each city to lease it to Jamison or some other guy. So maybe the NHL will try to bargain something, but neither PKP nor Hansen have interest in leasing their arena to an NHL owner without them being THAT owner.

powerstuck is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 05:27 PM
  #427
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shogunate of Nofunia
Country: Fiji
Posts: 28,856
vCash: 713
I disagree. Personally, I still believe that the NHL doesn't like relocation under any circumstance and had hoped to use the Yotes as a test model for future troubled teams where the municipality would take over certain costs while new ownership is sought.

Only problem is that everything that could've gone wrong did go wrong and the NHL is slow to realize the negatives of continuously contributing to the sunk costs already put in. Had Glendale reacted like Atlanta and Atlanta reacted like Glendale, then the Yotes would already be back in Winnipeg and Quebecois would be salivated at the prospect of getting the Thrashers.

That being said, Jamison's certainly coming off as a major team player which makes you think that the league would probably be willing to reward him in some way down the line with a franchise somewhere.

No Fun Shogun is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 05:46 PM
  #428
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Don't get me wrong... I mean, I am all for pay a bit towards the improvement of the quality of life for my community because I want a great place to live. However, I draw the line when scheisters come to town and want us to fully fund their legacy projects, just cause.
... honestly Ps, I have no problem with public money funding arenas' & stadiums (50/50, 60/40, 80/20, heck, even 100%; Id vote for that), its all the "extra stuff", commercial, residential, retail, parking garages etc etc etc followed by on-going subsidies that I have a problem with. Ellman, Wang, Katz and many more get greedy, expecting local & or provincial/state authorities to pay the freight, cover any possible losses in perpetuity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Well, I don't know if NHL really wants that (Jamison as an owner) but I can tell you this, both guys in Quebec (PK Peladeau) and Seattle (Hansen) are not currently participating in building a new arena in each city to lease it to Jamison or some other guy. So maybe the NHL will try to bargain something, but neither PKP nor Hansen have interest in leasing their arena to an NHL owner without them being THAT owner.
... without wanting to derail the thread powerstruck, in Quebec's case, absolutely no way someone from outside & off-market comes rolling into town supplanting & usurping PKP & Quebecor. Insane to even think about it. But Seattle? I think your well off the mark on that one.

Indeed, in so far as Conspiracy Theories go Greg Jamison finding himself as titular head of a team in transition, returning to his old stomping grounds of the Westcoast backed by Levin and whomever else is beyond plausible. Hansen could be in at the minority level, maybe not at all. I dont know for sure, no ones talking, but there are just too many coincidences, historically & otherwise that breathes life into such a possibility. Not so "far out there" as some suggest.

Moving a 2nd team to a smaller Canadian market in as many years? Dont think the NHL's really big on that one; Jamisons' meanderings in Arizona, always striking me as "odd". Everything about it & him actually. As crazy it might appear on the surface, shifting a desperate franchise to Key Arena temporarily in what is effectively a brand newish market (though the WHL does extremely well) just based on the players involved, I cant help but suspect Washington State is where this franchise winds up. Quebec & Southern Ontario 2 added in 2015 through Expansion. I realize of course that such a suggestion angers many in QC, not to mention the Coyotes fans in Arizona, but if you take everything into consideration, look at it through the eyes of the NHL, the theory makes sense.


Last edited by Killion: 11-09-2012 at 05:54 PM.
Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #429
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post

That being said, Jamison's certainly coming off as a major team player which makes you think that the league would probably be willing to reward him in some way down the line with a franchise somewhere.
Gramps GJ is a figure head/front man for an investment group. He does not have the financial wherewithal to be the majority owner of an NHL franchise. Perhaps he could be the front man in an expansion group down the line but the will not be the money man.

He is still the current minority an owner of an NHL franchise much like Bernie Kosar owns the Florida Panthers.

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:24 PM
  #430
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Well, I don't know if NHL really wants that (Jamison as an owner) but I can tell you this, both guys in Quebec (PK Peladeau) and Seattle (Hansen) are not currently participating in building a new arena in each city to lease it to Jamison or some other guy. So maybe the NHL will try to bargain something, but neither PKP nor Hansen have interest in leasing their arena to an NHL owner without them being THAT owner.
i agree. i think this franchise ceased to be 'portable' to a 'local phoenix' buyer a while ago. only the nhl will decide where it ends up and when.

GuelphStormer is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:42 PM
  #431
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i agree. i think this franchise ceased to be 'portable' to a 'local phoenix' buyer a while ago. only the nhl will decide where it ends up and when.
I recall Hulsizer during the cupcake summit mentioning Kansas City.

IF this franchise nees to relocate QC is #1 on the list despite what some media and others may say and Jamison will not be the owner in QC.

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:44 PM
  #432
Puckschmuck*
Doan Shall Be Boo'ed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... honestly Ps, I have no problem with public money funding arenas' & stadiums (50/50, 60/40, 80/20, heck, even 100%; Id vote for that)
If it's for a community arena, you know like East End in Winnipeg, where the EE Wings practice , then yes, I do think full public money is acceptable. But when it comes to pro sport, no way, no how. Not acceptable. Ever. Period. These D-bags have money to spare (well in the case of the Jigmeister, that remains to be seen), so they can front the money that will leads them to make their millions/billions off of the fans.

Puckschmuck* is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:50 PM
  #433
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
If it's for a community arena, you know like East End in Winnipeg, where the EE Wings practice , then yes, I do think full public money is acceptable. But when it comes to pro sport, no way, no how. Not acceptable. Ever. Period.
I come from a rather unique (for the US at least) experience: NFL Redskins paid for their own stadium (Fed-Ex Field) and the then owner of the Cap paid for the Verizon Center. Each provided their own financing and a consequence each own their own arena.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #434
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Any word on Tindall's day in court?

Joyce and Craig currently sipping victory Martinis waiting for Shane and Greg to join them, enjoying a business meeting on the $$$$ remaining in Joyce's expense account.

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:21 PM
  #435
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
If it's for a community arena, you know like East End in Winnipeg, where the EE Wings practice , then yes, I do think full public money is acceptable. But when it comes to pro sport, no way, no how. Not acceptable. Ever. Period. These D-bags have money to spare (well in the case of the Jigmeister, that remains to be seen), so they can front the money that will leads them to make their millions/billions off of the fans.
... you live in Lethbridge, is that right Ps? Do you know of the Scurfield family? Surely you must. Old Man Scurfield & his corrupt son John yes? One of the original & still owners of the Flames; lease hold operators of Sunshine Village Ski Resort; management contract with Norquay, the "Gondola", one time managers of Nakiska, Lake Louise & Fortress; parking lots & hotels all over Banff & environs, all of it sitting on provincial or federal land yes? Hell, I could go on & on & on. I know these people. You cast stones in a glass house, gonna get called Bud, and what Ive just stated? Mild. Dont get me going on Alberta. Cremation.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:03 PM
  #436
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... you live in Lethbridge, is that right Ps? Do you know of the Scurfield family? Surely you must. Old Man Scurfield & his corrupt son John yes? One of the original & still owners of the Flames; lease hold operators of Sunshine Village Ski Resort; management contract with Norquay, the "Gondola", one time managers of Nakiska, Lake Louise & Fortress; parking lots & hotels all over Banff & environs, all of it sitting on provincial or federal land yes? Hell, I could go on & on & on. I know these people. You cast stones in a glass house, gonna get called Bud, and what Ive just stated? Mild. Dont get me going on Alberta. Cremation.
Scurfield and Family sound like the perfect investors in GJ's JSG. Certainly more plausible than the Arab syndicate.

go sharks go + go flames go + COG's money = coyote ugly

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:21 PM
  #437
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Scurfield and Family sound like the perfect investors in GJ's JSG.
... you wanna see "ugly"? Just checkout the Calgary Flames ownership groups. Unbelievable. That someone from Alberta would throw stones in a Glass House is actually not terribly surprising. A more underwhelming lot of pseudo capitalists beyond the Welsh & Scottish Borders you could not find if you turned over every slimy rock from Kelowna to Land O' Lakes northern Minnesota. Hybrid Rodeo Kings & Grifters the likes of which youd best be aware of before spending a plug nickle in that province. Absolutely ticks me right OFF that an Albertan would have the "temerity" to go there. You want War? I'll give you War. Full-on.

In-your-face-WAR.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:26 PM
  #438
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... you wanna see "ugly"? Just checkout the Calgary Flames ownership groups. Unbelievable. That someone from Alberta would throw stones in a Glass House is actually not terribly surprising. A more underwhelming lot of pseudo capitalists beyond the Welsh & Scottish Borders you could not find if you turned over every slimy rock from Kelowna to Land O' Lakes northern Minnesota. Hybrid Rodeo Kings & Grifters the likes of which youd best be aware of before spending a plug nickle in that province. Absolutely ticks me right OFF that an Albertan would have the "temerity" to go there. You want War? I'll give you War. Full-on.

In-your-face-WAR.
Are the Scurfields friends of Boots?

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:31 PM
  #439
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Are the Scurfields friends of Boots?
... nope. different breed of "grifter" blues. Borderline David Lynch
meets Quentin Tarantino. Sort of in the middle, decidedly unsophisticated.

Hillbilly Deluxe' I suppose if you like Cheap Saddles, Rodeo Clowns & Candy Floss.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 10:42 PM
  #440
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... nope. different breed of "grifter" blues. Borderline David Lynch
meets Quentin Tarantino. Sort of in the middle, decidedly unsophisticated.

Hillbilly Deluxe' I suppose if you like Cheap Saddles, Rodeo Clowns & Candy Floss.
COG council meets Marty Robbins type of dealo?

These Scurfields sound like the type Gary keeps on his Rolodex. "In case of needed investors please call"

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:00 PM
  #441
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
COG council meets Marty Robbins type of dealo?

These Scurfields sound like the type Gary keeps on his Rolodex. "In case of needed investors please call"
... pretty much. They needed a new Chairlift built to a peak called "Goats Head". Well surprise surprise, Alberta's provincial govt' found a way to fund & then bury that cost in a budget. DopplegangerLift out of Austria making out like bandits to the tune of $135M while the Scurfields featured it in every "tourista" video from here to the UK. Graft & Grift. Old Man John got it years ago. He's still, in my opinion, a PUNK. An Alberta Punk. Punks exist everywhere. Definitively people look for welfare, at core, cruel, without conscience. One foot in the gutter. Ergo; hypocritical.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:02 PM
  #442
MNNumbers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,266
vCash: 500
Has there been any report on the court case today?

MNNumbers is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #443
Puckschmuck*
Doan Shall Be Boo'ed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... you live in Lethbridge, is that right Ps? Do you know of the Scurfield family? Surely you must. Old Man Scurfield & his corrupt son John yes? One of the original & still owners of the Flames; lease hold operators of Sunshine Village Ski Resort; management contract with Norquay, the "Gondola", one time managers of Nakiska, Lake Louise & Fortress; parking lots & hotels all over Banff & environs, all of it sitting on provincial or federal land yes? Hell, I could go on & on & on. I know these people. You cast stones in a glass house, gonna get called Bud, and what Ive just stated? Mild. Dont get me going on Alberta. Cremation.
I just moved here half a year ago. Please don't be foolish and use some "everyone knows everyone in a small town" malarchy to bolster your argument; makes you look silly. And don't accuse me of "casting stones" when I have no idea what you are babbling on about, as usual. And you rant about, well, some people in Alberta bilking public money and yet you find it okay for the citizens of Glendale to get the shaft. That tells me you are nothing but a hypocrite.


Last edited by Puckschmuck*: 11-09-2012 at 11:53 PM.
Puckschmuck* is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:17 PM
  #444
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Has there been any report on the court case today?
... thats a damn good question!. What happened? Law persons plz...

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:32 PM
  #445
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
I'm convinced the NHL doesn't mind the Coyotes moving. They simply want to have Jamison as the owner, and want one of Seattle or Quebec to have a stadium ready and waiting. At that time, they'll have the owner in place that they want, they'll allow him to move the team where he chooses, and whatever markets are left after his decision, will receive expansion franchises as long they're ready to go. I don't think the NHL has any illusions that Phoenix may actually be salvageable. They need to stay put until everything else is situated in these other markets.
I don't think so. Wherever the Coyotes wind up regardless of its Glendale, QC, Seattle, etc. They will not be in a situation where they are merely a tenant and someone else controls the arena. The Islanders in the Barclays Center are the only team in the NHL where that is the case. Notice in every situation where NHL and NBA teams share an arena they all either 1) have the same owners 2) the arena is jointly owned/managed by the two teams 3) the NHL team controls the arena and the NBA team is the tenant. With the NHL being a gate driven league the teams need the revenues from the arena in order to make it work. I have no idea how the Islanders are doing it but I can't see the Coyotes in any market without having a stake in the arena which only comes from being owned by Hansen's group

aqib is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #446
MNNumbers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,266
vCash: 500
Again, since we are on a new page - Does anyone know what happened in court today with CoG and GWI?

MNNumbers is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:37 PM
  #447
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... pretty much. They needed a new Chairlift built to a peak called "Goats Head". Well surprise surprise, Alberta's provincial govt' found a way to fund & then bury that cost in a budget. DopplegangerLift out of Austria making out like bandits to the tune of $135M while the Scurfields featured it in every "tourista" video from here to the UK. Graft & Grift. Old Man John got it years ago. He's still, in my opinion, a PUNK. An Alberta Punk. Punks exist everywhere. Definitively people look for welfare, at core, cruel, without conscience. One foot in the gutter. Ergo; hypocritical.
Sounds perfect for Glendale - Hulsizer and Jamison type people. I suggest the Scurfields set up a date with Clark. This thing could gain some footing by tomorrow.

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:39 PM
  #448
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Again, since we are on a new page - Does anyone know what happened in court today with CoG and GWI?
Nope but it looks like GJ is full steam ahead.

Quote:
sonu munshi‏@smunshi

Chatted with Greg Jamison. Says he expects a vote to come before council within three weeks. #Coyotes

blues10 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:43 PM
  #449
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
I don't think so...
I dont really care what your opinion is in that regard aqib. Quite specifically, did you respond to mine own & others requests for information, media sources with links pursuant to the City of Glendale being in Contempt of Court?... Waiting.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:49 PM
  #450
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
I don't think so. Wherever the Coyotes wind up regardless of its Glendale, QC, Seattle, etc. They will not be in a situation where they are merely a tenant and someone else controls the arena. The Islanders in the Barclays Center are the only team in the NHL where that is the case. Notice in every situation where NHL and NBA teams share an arena they all either 1) have the same owners 2) the arena is jointly owned/managed by the two teams 3) the NHL team controls the arena and the NBA team is the tenant. With the NHL being a gate driven league the teams need the revenues from the arena in order to make it work. I have no idea how the Islanders are doing it but I can't see the Coyotes in any market without having a stake in the arena which only comes from being owned by Hansen's group
TV money - in a gate driven league a local TV deal like this is huge.

Quote:
Under their TV contract with MSG, the Islanders are getting about $20 million per season in rights fees through 2030-31
http://thehockeywriters.com/new-york...a-new-tv-deal/

blues10 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.