HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #201
CasualFan
Tortious Beadicus
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,193
vCash: 500
Clark lost. That is amazing.

A smarter person would have inspected the campaign finance reports before they called her probable to win. I guess I got caught up focusing on elections in my own municipality instead of studying Glendale. Turns out that Clark had only $17k while her opponent's chest was $43k.

Goldwater v Glendale on Friday. Quite an interesting week for COG.

CasualFan is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:20 PM
  #202
madhi19
Registered User
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
First off all, I think Jamison/Glendale AMF negotiation is one thing completely different from what NHL want/can do with the Coyotes.

We can all speculate if Jamison will buy the team or not, if Glendale will give 0, 5 or $15M a year.

Honestly, taking your scenario (Dec 1st season start ?) it's too late to move the team and Jamison definitely cannot close the AMF nego in 3 weeks.

That being said, I think the NHL will put the Coyotes on a strict minimum spendings, no ads, cheaper hotels while traveling, less personnel and so on for the season (shorter one so could be accepted easier).

They could if they decide to sell the team to someone who wants to move it, they could tell Jamison to give up and negotiate with lets say PKP to buy the Coyotes now, play one last season in Arizona (once again, a 60ish games season, so less expenses and all) as a condition of selling him the team. Yes an owner in Quebec, or Seattle or Toronto might not want loosing 40-50M for the season, but it's either buy the Coyotes for $170M + $50M Relofee + $50M 2012-13 expenses or you won't get a team ever, not even an expansion one.

That year gives time to other city to get ready and 2013-14 opens up in a new city.

So to resume, I think NHL won't have choice but to accept that Glendale won't give them a single penny anymore, and they can either stay in Az at their own expense or sell/move elsewhere, but as I said, I doubt any city, even Quebec city could and would take an NHL team with 3 weeks notice.
Three weeks notice will be more of a stretch but then since the NHL will have to come up with a new schedule after a CBA get signed that give them some leway. If an emergency relocation happen just after the CBA issue get resolved I could see them send the Nordiques on a 2 weeks road trip to start the season. You can bet that Quebecor got a plug and play plan ready to roll in case that happen. How hard could that be you just keep the manegarial staff for at least a season. Change the uniform to the new design and let billetech handles the tickets sales. I don't expect it will happen but it won't be the end of the world if it does.

madhi19 is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:38 PM
  #203
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Three weeks notice will be more of a stretch but then since the NHL will have to come up with a new schedule after a CBA get signed that give them some leway. If an emergency relocation happen just after the CBA issue get resolved I could see them send the Nordiques on a 2 weeks road trip to start the season. You can bet that Quebecor got a plug and play plan ready to roll in case that happen. How hard could that be you just keep the manegarial staff for at least a season. Change the uniform to the new design and let billetech handles the tickets sales. I don't expect it will happen but it won't be the end of the world if it does.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't PKP expect to lose money in the years that the team plays in Pepsi Colisee? If thats the case would a 55 game season in Glendale be all that bad. Plus if they are in Glendale knowing they will be in QC in a year they can probably mitigate some of the losses by broadcasting games in Quebec

aqib is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:43 PM
  #204
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Clark lost. That is amazing.

A smarter person would have inspected the campaign finance reports before they called her probable to win. I guess I got caught up focusing on elections in my own municipality instead of studying Glendale. Turns out that Clark had only $17k while her opponent's chest was $43k.

Goldwater v Glendale on Friday. Quite an interesting week for COG.
It's hard to know how much more stomach the COG has for all of this.

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.

Whileee is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:44 PM
  #205
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't PKP expect to lose money in the years that the team plays in Pepsi Colisee? If thats the case would a 55 game season in Glendale be all that bad. Plus if they are in Glendale knowing they will be in QC in a year they can probably mitigate some of the losses by broadcasting games in Quebec
Or playing some games in Saskatoon?

Whileee is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:48 PM
  #206
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,949
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It's hard to know how much more stomach the COG has for all of this.

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.
I would hope to see books written, films made, and courses taught in universities on just how not to do things. Should be required training for all people with political aspirations.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:54 PM
  #207
objectiveposter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 309
vCash: 500
lets just say there is a new revised lease... and another attempt to collect signatures that is successful this time....it goes to referendum.... will they have to wait until 2014 mid term elections?

objectiveposter is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:06 PM
  #208
cheswick
Non-registered User
 
cheswick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,026
vCash: 574
sonu munshi‏@smunshi
So Greg Jamison is in town. Qs is when does the deal come back to council for a vote? City officials say no timeline on that yet.

sonu munshi‏@smunshi
A court ruling mandates a one-week public notice before a #Coyotes deal comes to #Glendale City Council 4 a vote.

cheswick is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:16 PM
  #209
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 42,008
vCash: 500
Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Right?

rt is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:23 PM
  #210
OthmarAmmann
Money making machine
 
OthmarAmmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It's hard to know how much more stomach the COG has for all of this.

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.
or their creditors

OthmarAmmann is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:37 PM
  #211
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by objectiveposter View Post
lets just say there is a new revised lease... and another attempt to collect signatures that is successful this time....it goes to referendum.... will they have to wait until 2014 mid term elections?
No there is something up for vote every year. There are also primaries and other special elections all the time

aqib is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #212
mzappa
Jets fans in space
 
mzappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,854
vCash: 50
It would be unconscionable, unaccountable, and simply unfair to Glendale residents, if a lame-duck council pushes through a vote on this deal which will cripple their budget for a generation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Right?

mzappa is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:50 PM
  #213
checkerdome
Registered User
 
checkerdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Right?
It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.

checkerdome is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #214
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
It would be unconscionable, unaccountable, and simply unfair to Glendale residents, if a lame-duck council pushes through a vote on this deal which will cripple their budget for a generation.
It would create a remarkable political spectacle for them to push the Jamison lease through in the current circumstances before the new mayor and council take their seats. I expect that it would set off a series of events that would through up a variety of potential roadblocks, thereby frustrating attempts to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

I think that the only realistic option is for Jamison and the NHL to come forward with a much more reasonable options for a lease deal the COG. If they fail to do that, I think that a local sale is pretty improbable.

Whileee is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #215
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,949
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.
This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #216
Tinalera
Registered User
 
Tinalera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Known Universe
Posts: 6,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It would create a remarkable political spectacle for them to push the Jamison lease through in the current circumstances before the new mayor and council take their seats. I expect that it would set off a series of events that would through up a variety of potential roadblocks, thereby frustrating attempts to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

I think that the only realistic option is for Jamison and the NHL to come forward with a much more reasonable options for a lease deal the COG. If they fail to do that, I think that a local sale is pretty improbable.
I agree. If they tried try to do that, the people will speak up and say "wait, we voted to pay the firemen and the police, not millionaires". I would think it GWI ample ammunition in itself as a way of showing a "bait and switch" to the electorate. I could see the new council trying to push an annullment of the agreement as a sign of bad faith by the lame duck council.

Tinalera is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #217
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 42,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
It would be unconscionable, unaccountable, and simply unfair to Glendale residents, if a lame-duck council pushes through a vote on this deal which will cripple their budget for a generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.
I dont know what politicians are like in Canada, but here in the States they are liars and thieves.

__________________
This poster should not be taken seriously under any circumstances.
rt is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:20 PM
  #218
mzappa
Jets fans in space
 
mzappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,854
vCash: 50
Well the Mayor of Montreal just resigned for a corruption scandal, Quebec's entire construction industry is run by the mafia while linked to the Province, and the current Canadian Federal government is the furthest thing from transparent.

In Winnipeg, our Mayor concluded a land deal for a house in Phoenix (you can't make this up) for $1, which was brokered by the former CEO of the City (public servant). He also owns the local baseball team in a 'blind trust' and pays no tax on a parking lot near the Forks downtown --- some of the most expensive property in the City.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I dont know what politicians are like in Canada, but here in the States they are liars and thieves.

mzappa is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:20 PM
  #219
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.
In the public discussion leading to the approval of the original Jamison lease, Glendale publicly claimed that retaining the Coyotes with the AMF negotiated with Jamison in June would be cost-saving, compared to losing the Coyotes and having to continue to pay for the Jobing.com management. Since then, they have amended that version (without explaining why), and now indicate that it will cost several million more per year to keep the Coyotes with the Jamison lease. Based on their most recent financial scenarios, a substantial portion of the revenue from the sales tax increase will indeed go into supporting a subsidy to Jamison via the AMF. I don't think that's a secret.

Whileee is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:29 PM
  #220
mzappa
Jets fans in space
 
mzappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,854
vCash: 50
@"Whileee" is the silent partner in ICE EDGE HOLDINGS!!!!

I've exposed you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Or playing some games in Saskatoon?

mzappa is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #221
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,949
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
In the public discussion leading to the approval of the original Jamison lease, Glendale publicly claimed that retaining the Coyotes with the AMF negotiated with Jamison in June would be cost-saving, compared to losing the Coyotes and having to continue to pay for the Jobing.com management. Since then, they have amended that version (without explaining why), and now indicate that it will cost several million more per year to keep the Coyotes with the Jamison lease. Based on their most recent financial scenarios, a substantial portion of the revenue from the sales tax increase will indeed go into supporting a subsidy to Jamison via the AMF. I don't think that's a secret.
I don't think its a secret either... at least not for anyone on HFB

But I'm sure there are some people that specifically voted for the tax increase after having read the proprosition and saw no mention of the hockey team. I read the proprosition and what everyone was saying ( ie: fire fighters etc. ) and based on what I read.... I would have voted in favour of the tax increase no problem. It sounded good with all that money going to support infrastructure and keeping services.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-07-2012 at 02:47 PM.
cbcwpg is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:35 PM
  #222
OthmarAmmann
Money making machine
 
OthmarAmmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.
They voted simply on the repeal of a tax increase, not some sort of appropriation. There are no strings attached to the revenue. They could annually commission $20 million of public art made of manure if they so desired.

OthmarAmmann is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #223
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
@"Whileee" is the silent partner in ICE EDGE HOLDINGS!!!!

I've exposed you.
Yup. I'm the evil silent partner. I've been secretly trying to unseat IceEdgeDJ as the official spokesman.


Whileee is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:47 PM
  #224
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Clark lost. That is amazing...
... indeed. Not the greatest Batting Average there Councillor. Ya reckon it was her Hispanic Conspiracy Theories or the news on Monday of $6M being improperly transferred out of the trust to wit she was supposed to oversee as Chairperson?

And what next for Ms.Clark?

Killion is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #225
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,711
vCash: 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I dont know what politicians are like in Canada, but here in the States they are liars and thieves.
No RT the US does not hold the monopoly on politicians that are liars and thieves, I personally think power corrupts regardless of the party or country they are in.

sipowicz is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.