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Prospect Thread - Part XII

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:39 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Seguin put up elite numbers, and he had squat to play with.
So Gaunce isn't as good as Seguin? Damn, my heart is broken.

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:43 PM
  #252
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Ignoring the ridiculousness of the comparison, Seguin also played 30-35 minutes a night at times and was out for the duration of almost every PP.

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11-24-2012, 02:52 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
In Tyler Seguin's draft year, the Plymouth Whalers top 5 scorers:

Seguin - 106 points
A.J. Jenks - 63
Robert Czarnik - 49
Tyler Brown - 39
Joe Gaynor - 36

Seguin put up elite numbers, and he had squat to play with.

Seguin 2nd overall....Gaunce 26th overall. I have no idea the need for that comparison. I only used Hall as an example of even elite players require help for great success. Seguin is an elite player that managed to be one of very few players that put up huge numbers without support. I never said Gaunce was elite.


Last edited by BerSTUzzi: 11-24-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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11-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #254
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Well here's some Beattie highlights from two games last weekend



He still hasn't recorded a point so its basically just ES play, some hits, etc. Not too exciting but gives you a look at how he plays.

IMO, his strengths are his work ethic and skating ability, which work for him in his relentless forecheck. Strong on his skates to protect the puck on the cycle. Defensively conscious in 3 zones. Willing to engage physically and on the majority of his shifts, seeks this physicality. Things he needs to work on are filling out. Looks a bit lean atm. Conditioning in terms of stamina. Looked very tired after some longer shifts, especially since he rarely stops moving his feet. Needs to be more assertive offensively, did not create much on the PP.

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11-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #255
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Well here's some Beattie highlights from two games last weekend



He still hasn't recorded a point so its basically just ES play, some hits, etc. Not too exciting but gives you a look at how he plays.

IMO, his strengths are his work ethic and skating ability, which work for him in his relentless forecheck. Strong on his skates to protect the puck on the cycle. Defensively conscious in 3 zones. Willing to engage physically and on the majority of his shifts, seeks this physicality. Things he needs to work on are filling out. Looks a bit lean atm. Conditioning in terms of stamina. Looked very tired after some longer shifts, especially since he rarely stops moving his feet. Needs to be more assertive offensively, did not create much on the PP.
thanks, btw was that you doing the commentary? Pretty good job.


What I noticed about Beattie was he looked very green, the level of play he is used to is much less structured.

I think his skating ability looks average at best. His top speed is not bad for someone his size, but he goes in large circles.

The good thing is, even at the college level his puck handling stands out. As well, he made some nice passes.

Liked this pick at the draft, considering where he was picked I think this guy at least has the ability to play in the AHL someday.

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11-24-2012, 11:33 PM
  #256
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thanks, btw was that you doing the commentary? Pretty good job.


What I noticed about Beattie was he looked very green, the level of play he is used to is much less structured.

I think his skating ability looks average at best. His top speed is not bad for someone his size, but he goes in large circles.
Haha, you wouldn't want to hear me do commentary. I think it'd sound a lot more like Samuelsson with his continuous "Uuuuhhhhhh". I think their commentary is done by students at Yale, in which case, it is pretty good.

Yeah, he definitely needs more seasoning. I dunno, i think he moves well for a big man. Nice long stride, transitions are good. He does have a tendency for big loops. I think its more of a bad habit than poor technique, but i agree, something he'll need to work on.

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11-25-2012, 01:52 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by BerSTUzzi View Post
Junior hockey systems have developed enough that one good/great offensive player cannot produce at a high level. Even elite players require support to put up huge numbers.
Maybe you meant it in a different way or something, but what you said seemed pretty clear, and I think Seguin's season proves that wrong. That's all I was getting at.

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11-25-2012, 01:53 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Haha, you wouldn't want to hear me do commentary. I think it'd sound a lot more like Samuelsson with his continuous "Uuuuhhhhhh". I think their commentary is done by students at Yale, in which case, it is pretty good.

Yeah, he definitely needs more seasoning. I dunno, i think he moves well for a big man. Nice long stride, transitions are good. He does have a tendency for big loops. I think its more of a bad habit than poor technique, but i agree, something he'll need to work on.
I agree about his skating, it's good for a guy his size, could use some work with a Canucks skating coach to work on those loops and a couple finer points, but otherwise he can move pretty well. He has good offensive instincts from what I can see there but he's really raw, you can see he is still adjusting to the much higher level of competition, but he is doing well in the defensive zone and that is going to be key in him making it anywhere. He also definitely needs to bulk up, he is solid on his skates and aggresive (compared to LaBate he is a tank on skates, LaBate needs to work on his balance a lot) but if he can add about 20-30lbs over the course of his college career while maintaining that speed he will be a force physically. If he can also maintain that work ethic he definitely has a chance at making the AHL at least. I think it will be interesting having him and LaBate go to the AHL at (roughly) the same time as I think they could complement each other well with their playing styles.

One question about the video, is this just the best of his play or is this an average game for him? I want to see what he looks like when he's playing badly too so I can make a more accurate assessment. Great video overall though.

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11-25-2012, 02:55 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Well here's some Beattie highlights from two games last weekend



He still hasn't recorded a point so its basically just ES play, some hits, etc. Not too exciting but gives you a look at how he plays.

IMO, his strengths are his work ethic and skating ability, which work for him in his relentless forecheck. Strong on his skates to protect the puck on the cycle. Defensively conscious in 3 zones. Willing to engage physically and on the majority of his shifts, seeks this physicality. Things he needs to work on are filling out. Looks a bit lean atm. Conditioning in terms of stamina. Looked very tired after some longer shifts, especially since he rarely stops moving his feet. Needs to be more assertive offensively, did not create much on the PP.
Thanks for putting that together. I like how he's willing to engage physically with his size - probably the first thing I noticed when I saw this video. Seems to have decent skating for a big guy too. His ability to always be around or be involved with the puck also stood out to me - a positive sign for his instincts, perhaps.

Didn't you mention you watched a game of his the other day? Was that a stream that was available to watch online somewhere or on TV?

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11-25-2012, 03:40 AM
  #260
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Didn't you mention you watched a game of his the other day? Was that a stream that was available to watch online somewhere or on TV?
I put it in the description!!

its okay, i know i don't read that thing when i watch videos either! Its better to put it here anyways. Just found out about it yesterday. This channel streams the game and then puts up a full copy of the game afterwards. They only do their home games and they are doing their next 3 games. Subscribe!

http://www.youtube.com/user/YaleCampus

Here are the individual games if you guys want to watch:

12.11.09 vs Clarkson : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgSr4D2Wbak
12.11.10 vs St.Lawrence : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXJmGyhnsaU

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11-25-2012, 03:48 AM
  #261
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Beattie's Yale Bulldogs have just beaten Denver U and Colorado College in back-to-back games in the Rockies. They're a really good team, emphasizing relentless pressure and hard work. It would be good to see video of his play in those tough games.

Obviously something about Yale's personnel and coaching is working, so it's a good learning environment for a freshman, to have a grinding third-line role while learning his craft, and biding his time until a top-six role opens up in the years ahead.

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Old
11-25-2012, 03:53 AM
  #262
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Any updates on LaBate? I was very high on him last year, but I've yet to hear any updates about him lately.

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Old
11-25-2012, 04:09 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I put it in the description!!

its okay, i know i don't read that thing when i watch videos either! Its better to put it here anyways. Just found out about it yesterday. This channel streams the game and then puts up a full copy of the game afterwards. They only do their home games and they are doing their next 3 games. Subscribe!

http://www.youtube.com/user/YaleCampus

Here are the individual games if you guys want to watch:

12.11.09 vs Clarkson : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgSr4D2Wbak
12.11.10 vs St.Lawrence : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXJmGyhnsaU
Oh whoops, I just noticed! My bad lol, thanks again for posting those.

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Old
11-25-2012, 11:10 AM
  #264
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Beattie skates really effortlessly. Especially for a guy his size...I'm really intrigued.

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Old
11-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #265
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Any updates on LaBate? I was very high on him last year, but I've yet to hear any updates about him lately.
http://canucksarmy.com/2012/11/9/che...-joseph-labate

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It isn’t all roses for LaBate right now, but prospects (especially of the big forward variety) tend to experience peaks and valleys as they develop as hockey players. Both the Canucks and the Badgers still regard LaBate quite highly, and he will be handled with patience. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him play the full four years at college, as he doesn’t appear to be ready to make the jump to the pro ranks right now (although that could change in a year).

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11-25-2012, 12:40 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Maybe you meant it in a different way or something, but what you said seemed pretty clear, and I think Seguin's season proves that wrong. That's all I was getting at.
Not that we need to argue but I said good/great offensive players, I then referenced Hall as Elite and they even need help. I would consider Seguin in the elite offensive skill category

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11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
  #267
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Have to go ahead and say that our prospect pool is among the bottom 5 in the league, easily.

Our top prospects are simply not producing at a promising level whatsoever. Prospects who turn into impact players, generally speaking, show signs of dominance at their level before making an impact in the NHL.

Tanev: he will not be anything more than a #5 guy in the NHL. Has no shot, limited offensive skills, and is not agressive/big enough to make an impact as a defensive defenseman. Reminds me a lot of Lukas Krajicek: can skate and is smart around the ice, but lacks to much to make him a top 4 guy.

Lack: I still have a lot of hope for Lack and think that he can still be a solid NHLer, but the regression this year is a bit worrisome.

Schroeder: Has shown flashes, but again has CONSTANTLY disappointed in every year since being drafted. Considering his size, he should be dominating the AHL at this point if he was to project into a steady NHLer. I don't care who who is playing with, this is the AHL and he should be finding ways to convert.

Kassian: The good thing about Kassian is that he will make the NHL in some facet regardless considering his size and physical tools. However, it is worrying that his production has declined from last year in the AHL, and my hopes for him to develop into an impact top 6 forward are coming into question.

Corrado: Personally think it is quite pathetic how much attention he is getting from our fan base and shows how weak our prospect pool is, especially on defence. He has 19 points in 27 games. This is absolutely nothing special for a d-man in his final year in junior. He started out strong, but has now fallen out of the top 15 in defencemen OHL scoring. He has some good tools, but has not shown enough to get excited about. Maybe he turns into a top 4 if he brings it all together, but it is kind of sad that this is our best defensive prospect.

Connauton: Stuggles severely in the defensive end and his production has regressed this year. A pure offensive 22 year old d-man should be producing at the AHL level by now if that is to translate to the NHL.

Jensen: Weak year last year in the OHL (not much of an improvement from his draft year) and 10 points in 23 games when you take away the 2 shootout goals counting is absolutely nothing to get excited about.

Gaunce: 12 points in 16 games for a first rounder? Not good enough...at all.


See the trend? A lot of regression or simply overhyping when there has been nothing to show promise. Canucks homers will obviously bash me for this post as they always do, but any objective critic would easily find 25 teams with better prospect pools than we have.

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11-25-2012, 03:14 PM
  #268
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Have to go ahead and say that our prospect pool is among the bottom 5 in the league, easily.

Our top prospects are simply not producing at a promising level whatsoever. Prospects who turn into impact players, generally speaking, show signs of dominance at their level before making an impact in the NHL.

Tanev: he will not be anything more than a #5 guy in the NHL. Has no shot, limited offensive skills, and is not agressive/big enough to make an impact as a defensive defenseman. Reminds me a lot of Lukas Krajicek: can skate and is smart around the ice, but lacks to much to make him a top 4 guy.

Lack: I still have a lot of hope for Lack and think that he can still be a solid NHLer, but the regression this year is a bit worrisome.

Schroeder: Has shown flashes, but again has CONSTANTLY disappointed in every year since being drafted. Considering his size, he should be dominating the AHL at this point if he was to project into a steady NHLer. I don't care who who is playing with, this is the AHL and he should be finding ways to convert.

Kassian: The good thing about Kassian is that he will make the NHL in some facet regardless considering his size and physical tools. However, it is worrying that his production has declined from last year in the AHL, and my hopes for him to develop into an impact top 6 forward are coming into question.

Corrado: Personally think it is quite pathetic how much attention he is getting from our fan base and shows how weak our prospect pool is, especially on defence. He has 19 points in 27 games. This is absolutely nothing special for a d-man in his final year in junior. He started out strong, but has now fallen out of the top 15 in defencemen OHL scoring. He has some good tools, but has not shown enough to get excited about. Maybe he turns into a top 4 if he brings it all together, but it is kind of sad that this is our best defensive prospect.

Connauton: Stuggles severely in the defensive end and his production has regressed this year. A pure offensive 22 year old d-man should be producing at the AHL level by now if that is to translate to the NHL.

Jensen: Weak year last year in the OHL (not much of an improvement from his draft year) and 10 points in 23 games when you take away the 2 shootout goals counting is absolutely nothing to get excited about.

Gaunce: 12 points in 16 games for a first rounder? Not good enough...at all.


See the trend? A lot of regression or simply overhyping when there has been nothing to show promise. Canucks homers will obviously bash me for this post as they always do, but any objective critic would easily find 25 teams with better prospect pools than we have.
With all due respect, I personally feel you don't know what the hell your talking about. Stick to your day job.

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Old
11-25-2012, 03:22 PM
  #269
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With all due respect, I personally feel you don't know what the hell your talking about. Stick to your day job.
I second this.

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11-25-2012, 03:33 PM
  #270
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With all due respect, I personally feel you don't know what the hell your talking about. Stick to your day job.

I really don't feel the need for personal attacks here. I brought up some pretty valid points. Were you one of the people saying that Patrick White still had a shot as an NHLer when he was a 4th liner in college as well? Or that it didn't matter that Yann Sauve wasn't producing in junior because he still had time to turn it around? Because I certainly remember when I said they had no hope of making the NHL I was told by people like you that I should stop posting on the forum, I'm an idiot, etc etc.

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11-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #271
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I really don't feel the need for personal attacks here. I brought up some pretty valid points. Were you one of the people saying that Patrick White still had a shot as an NHLer when he was a 4th liner in college as well? Or that it didn't matter that Yann Sauve wasn't producing in junior because he still had time to turn it around? Because I certainly remember when I said they had no hope of making the NHL I was told by people like you that I should stop posting on the forum, I'm an idiot, etc etc.
no worries, you are pretty bang on.

If you want unbiased comments, I wouldn't be posting on this forum.

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11-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #272
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Have to go ahead and say that our prospect pool is among the bottom 5 in the league, easily.

Our top prospects are simply not producing at a promising level whatsoever. Prospects who turn into impact players, generally speaking, show signs of dominance at their level before making an impact in the NHL.

Tanev: he will not be anything more than a #5 guy in the NHL. Has no shot, limited offensive skills, and is not agressive/big enough to make an impact as a defensive defenseman. Reminds me a lot of Lukas Krajicek: can skate and is smart around the ice, but lacks to much to make him a top 4 guy.

Lack: I still have a lot of hope for Lack and think that he can still be a solid NHLer, but the regression this year is a bit worrisome.

Schroeder: Has shown flashes, but again has CONSTANTLY disappointed in every year since being drafted. Considering his size, he should be dominating the AHL at this point if he was to project into a steady NHLer. I don't care who who is playing with, this is the AHL and he should be finding ways to convert.

Kassian: The good thing about Kassian is that he will make the NHL in some facet regardless considering his size and physical tools. However, it is worrying that his production has declined from last year in the AHL, and my hopes for him to develop into an impact top 6 forward are coming into question.

Corrado: Personally think it is quite pathetic how much attention he is getting from our fan base and shows how weak our prospect pool is, especially on defence. He has 19 points in 27 games. This is absolutely nothing special for a d-man in his final year in junior. He started out strong, but has now fallen out of the top 15 in defencemen OHL scoring. He has some good tools, but has not shown enough to get excited about. Maybe he turns into a top 4 if he brings it all together, but it is kind of sad that this is our best defensive prospect.

Connauton: Stuggles severely in the defensive end and his production has regressed this year. A pure offensive 22 year old d-man should be producing at the AHL level by now if that is to translate to the NHL.

Jensen: Weak year last year in the OHL (not much of an improvement from his draft year) and 10 points in 23 games when you take away the 2 shootout goals counting is absolutely nothing to get excited about.

Gaunce: 12 points in 16 games for a first rounder? Not good enough...at all.


See the trend? A lot of regression or simply overhyping when there has been nothing to show promise. Canucks homers will obviously bash me for this post as they always do, but any objective critic would easily find 25 teams with better prospect pools than we have.
I hate to say it, but bottom-5 sounds about right. Although given where we've been drafting it's not unexpected, but still, our drafting could definitely use some improvment.

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11-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #273
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I second this.

How about some rational discussion on this. I'm not trolling. I am bringing up genuine concerns. HF has us ranked 28th in the league as far as organizational rankings for prospects, so I hardly think I'm making claims that are absurd. It's these types of responses that have prevented me from posting on this site very much over the past few years. When HF used to have rational, grounded discussion, CDC posters have now for the most part taken over the Canucks section of this board.

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11-25-2012, 03:47 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
With all due respect, I personally feel you don't know what the hell your talking about. Stick to your day job.
Why? He didn't say a single controversial thing.

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11-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by clay View Post
Have to go ahead and say that our prospect pool is among the bottom 5 in the league, easily.

Our top prospects are simply not producing at a promising level whatsoever. Prospects who turn into impact players, generally speaking, show signs of dominance at their level before making an impact in the NHL.

Tanev: he will not be anything more than a #5 guy in the NHL. Has no shot, limited offensive skills, and is not agressive/big enough to make an impact as a defensive defenseman. Reminds me a lot of Lukas Krajicek: can skate and is smart around the ice, but lacks to much to make him a top 4 guy.

Lack: I still have a lot of hope for Lack and think that he can still be a solid NHLer, but the regression this year is a bit worrisome.

Schroeder: Has shown flashes, but again has CONSTANTLY disappointed in every year since being drafted. Considering his size, he should be dominating the AHL at this point if he was to project into a steady NHLer. I don't care who who is playing with, this is the AHL and he should be finding ways to convert.

Kassian: The good thing about Kassian is that he will make the NHL in some facet regardless considering his size and physical tools. However, it is worrying that his production has declined from last year in the AHL, and my hopes for him to develop into an impact top 6 forward are coming into question.

Corrado: Personally think it is quite pathetic how much attention he is getting from our fan base and shows how weak our prospect pool is, especially on defence. He has 19 points in 27 games. This is absolutely nothing special for a d-man in his final year in junior. He started out strong, but has now fallen out of the top 15 in defencemen OHL scoring. He has some good tools, but has not shown enough to get excited about. Maybe he turns into a top 4 if he brings it all together, but it is kind of sad that this is our best defensive prospect.

Connauton: Stuggles severely in the defensive end and his production has regressed this year. A pure offensive 22 year old d-man should be producing at the AHL level by now if that is to translate to the NHL.

Jensen: Weak year last year in the OHL (not much of an improvement from his draft year) and 10 points in 23 games when you take away the 2 shootout goals counting is absolutely nothing to get excited about.

Gaunce: 12 points in 16 games for a first rounder? Not good enough...at all.


See the trend? A lot of regression or simply overhyping when there has been nothing to show promise. Canucks homers will obviously bash me for this post as they always do, but any objective critic would easily find 25 teams with better prospect pools than we have.
Pretty easy to tell you haven't watched any of these guys play.

I don't care about other teams, we watch hundreds of guys tear up junior hockey...lots don't make it pro.

I'll just take Corrado and Gaunce, they play on low scoring teams - Corrado is 2nd on his team in scoring, the next closest d-man has less than 5 points. gaunce missed time with an injury and is still among his teams leading scorers.

Not sure what you're reasoning for this post was, but we know we're not a great prospect pool....we haven't picked in the top 10 since 08' our 07' draft was probably the worst draft of all time, 06' we took Grabner and in 05' our pick died....some people may call those excuses (and they are to a point), but we've come along was since 07' and YOU CAN NEVER JUDGE A PROSPECT UNTIL 5 YEARS AFTER HIS DRAFT.

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