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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XX-Time for Rebuilding

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:45 PM
  #751
Montecristo
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I think people are underestimating the potential of the 2013 sox. I wouldn't write off Lester as a scrub just yet and if buchholz continues his dominant second half for a whole year that's a good 1-2 punch. If doubront improved and they catch lightning in a bottle with morales or another converted reliever they have the makings of an above average rotation. With a lineup that is still not complete they have something like this 1-9...

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Middlebrooks
Napoli
Salty/whoever is the catcher
Gomes
Kalish
Iglesias

They still will likely add another OF or 2 and possibly a SS which could be played based on the matchup.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:49 PM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCBRUIN View Post
They didn't lose a pick on Napoli did they? I didn't Texas made him an offer.
That's correct, the Rangers did not tender him a contract, signing him did not surrender a draft pick

The Sox #1 pick in this year's draft is protected as well because of the new CBA, so if they were to sign someone who did get tendered, the Sox would give their 2nd round pick.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:54 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Absolutely horrible signing. What were the Sox thinking?
better than what they have- guy has the 5th best OPS the last two years for a right handed hitter and strong pull hitter; ideally I'd have liked to seen it 8-10 per on three years but that probably wouldn't do it.

He has had his run-ins with Lackey in Anaheim but Lackey did will with him behind the plate. I'd limit his catching but this does allow for Salty to be moved

Obviously the game plan is yutes, yutes, yutes BUT get some strong bats and make Fenway a tough place to play; Pedroia, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Napoli (maybe Ross) all are good to very good righthanded bats in that park.

Jimmie Foxx aint walking thru that door so until Boegarts, Bradley, Brentz and the others are ready for prime time this will suffice

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:00 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
It's not like the Mike Napoli's of the world make them an actual playoff caliber team, or fill the holes they have on their pitching staff. Basically, they're going to suck with him or without him. With that being said, I'd pass on the chance to sign him and/or Swisher. They don't improve your pitching staff, and you still have zero chance of being a playoff team, so why bother?
So, don't do anything to improve the offense until you improve the pitching?

Don't we need help in both places?

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Gator Mike View Post
So, don't do anything to improve the offense until you improve the pitching?

Don't we need help in both places?
I'd say the pitching staff should be a far bigger concern than the offense, yet all they're doing this offseason (so far) is talking about Napoli, Swisher, and Ross. It's as if they're happy to roll with what they have and fold a rehabbed Lackey into the mix.

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:23 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
better than what they have- guy has the 5th best OPS the last two years for a right handed hitter and strong pull hitter; ideally I'd have liked to seen it 8-10 per on three years but that probably wouldn't do it.

He has had his run-ins with Lackey in Anaheim but Lackey did will with him behind the plate. I'd limit his catching but this does allow for Salty to be moved

Obviously the game plan is yutes, yutes, yutes BUT get some strong bats and make Fenway a tough place to play; Pedroia, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Napoli (maybe Ross) all are good to very good righthanded bats in that park.

Jimmie Foxx aint walking thru that door so until Boegarts, Bradley, Brentz and the others are ready for prime time this will suffice
That number is greatly skewed by his 2011 season, which by all measurable metrics, was an anomaly. He had career bests in runs, hits, doubles, RBI, walks, average, OBP, slugging, OPS, OPS+, and total bases. And of those numbers, the majority of them were his best by a large margin. So while he may be "better than what they have", he's still not much more than just another guy, if you're being objective.

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:42 PM
  #757
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Don't love it, don't hate it. 3 years is the perfect term if it had to get done. AAV doesn't mean **** in baseball, especially on the Sox and Yankees.

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
I'd say the pitching staff should be a far bigger concern than the offense, yet all they're doing this offseason (so far) is talking about Napoli, Swisher, and Ross. It's as if they're happy to roll with what they have and fold a rehabbed Lackey into the mix.
You'd rather they get involved with the likes of Greinke or Sanchez?

The best thing that could happen to the pitching staff would be for Farrell and Nieves to straighten out Lester and Bailey, IMO.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:14 PM
  #759
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Maybe the reason why the Red Sox wanted to know if Pedroia would sign an extension? gauge interest staying here?

Indians may be coming hard with Cabrera (27 year old SS who would be great at Fenway); Jason Kipnis (nice emerging underrated secondbaseman with gold glove ability), Choo? (short termer Borass guy but top 5 underrated players in baseball when on); old friend Masterson (jack of all trades back end innings eater); and Perez? out of the pen

certainly Pedroia is the star here, and Boston would have to include two or three others if it really got crazy- but the middle infielders in Clev are logical, Masterson comes back (Lester goes to KC) and Choo stops over to form a Scott Borass FA OF; see ya Inglesias

Clev would get Bailey if Perez is in the deal and probably a guy like Kalish or Brentz (or both) if Choo goes the other way....Boston can then get Myers from KC

OF-Myers/Gomes, Ellsbury, Choo

INF- Middlebrooks, Cabrera, Kipnis, Napoli

C-Lavarnway/Napoli

Buchholz
Lackey
Masterson
Doubront
Morales/Dela Rossa
KC arm

big

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #760
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Ok now sign Hamilton

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Absolutely horrible signing. What were the Sox thinking?
care to enlighten us as to who should be 1B opening day?

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:17 PM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Mike View Post
You'd rather they get involved with the likes of Greinke or Sanchez?

The best thing that could happen to the pitching staff would be for Farrell and Nieves to straighten out Lester and Bailey, IMO.
I'm a proponent of making that Lester-Myers deal. And I'd expect that if they did, they'd have to sign a guy like Sanchez and acquire another starter via trade or free agency.

However if they aren't inclined to do that deal, I think adding Sanchez to the rotation and a Swisher to the lineup makes this a playoff contender. The rotation would be decent not great, and the lineup would be very good. Not a WS favorite but a good club.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:23 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by bruinswincup View Post
Ok now sign Hamilton
I'm hoping.

I really think he could thrive here. He and Napoli are tight. Both great clubhouse guys. Its a new change in the air. The guy almost won the triple crown. If some people don't think he can't help us contend for real next year, then you crazy.


4 years max. I hope he comes here.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:39 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
I'm hoping.

I really think he could thrive here. He and Napoli are tight. Both great clubhouse guys. Its a new change in the air. The guy almost won the triple crown. If some people don't think he can't help us contend for real next year, then you crazy.


4 years max. I hope he comes here.
we need his bat badly. Ortiz can't be the only thumper.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:39 PM
  #765
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A reporter mentioned Salty for Dickey earlier today and I was somewhat intrigued.

Now I just saw this....

Quote:
@ESPNJoeyMac: Red Sox met with Mets on knuckler R.A. Dickey, according to a baseball source. Mets want Bogaerts and Bradley, Jr.
.....and can't stop laughing.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:44 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
A reporter mentioned Salty for Dickey earlier today and I was somewhat intrigued.

Now I just saw this....



.....and can't stop laughing.
Wow. I mean..wow.


I wouldnt trade both of them for King Felix. Let alone Dickey.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
A reporter mentioned Salty for Dickey earlier today and I was somewhat intrigued.

Now I just saw this....



.....and can't stop laughing.
No ****ing way

That can't be serious, right?

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #768
KCBRUIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
A reporter mentioned Salty for Dickey earlier today and I was somewhat intrigued.

Now I just saw this....



.....and can't stop laughing.
Throw in Pedroia to what a steal . I'm hoping that was just their initial feeling out the Sox offer, and they weren't serious.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:52 PM
  #769
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Negotiation 101 - Ask high

don't want him though

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:57 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by bruinswincup View Post
care to enlighten us as to who should be 1B opening day?
Why should it be Napoli? It's not like he's actually a guy who's played a lot at first. He logged 28 games there last year, and 61 the year before. Just to put it into some perspective for you, the guy has played a total of 133 games at first for his career. David Ortiz has logged 258. You want to pencil the guy in automatically at first, but he's not really a first baseman. He's a catcher who can play a little first if need be. Hardly the vote of confidence I want to see rolling into the season.

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12-03-2012, 04:06 PM
  #771
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That's a funny proposal from the Mets haha. Anyways, if I were the Sox, I would sign Hamilton 2yrs $47mill and C. Ross 3yrs $20 million (although I have a hunch he might sign with another team). Then trade Ellsbury (if we can get Hamilton and another OF, if not, trade him at the Trade Deadline) and Salty for starting pitching/prospects.

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12-03-2012, 04:10 PM
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazi View Post
That's a funny proposal from the Mets haha. Anyways, if I were the Sox, I would sign Hamilton 2yrs $47mill and C. Ross 3yrs $20 million (although I have a hunch he might sign with another team). Then trade Ellsbury (if we can get Hamilton and another OF, if not, trade him at the Trade Deadline) and Salty for starting pitching/prospects.
no chance we get both, and Hamilton isn't going to take a 2 year deal.

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:11 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by bruinswincup View Post
no chance we get both, and Hamilton isn't going to take a 2 year deal.
Could we throw in some heroin?


Last edited by bp13: 12-03-2012 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Come on. You know you want to laugh.
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Old
12-03-2012, 04:16 PM
  #774
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it's not like first is a particularly demanding position. mark reynolds picked it up and he was about as bad as defensive player as you could find at third.

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:19 PM
  #775
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Any more talk about SS?

I'm not really going to have to watch Iglesias hit every night am I? That just seems unfair to human eyes.

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