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Thread (V): Argos embarass Eskimos; Changes need to be made. Nichols seriously hurt.

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Old
11-11-2012, 04:26 PM
  #426
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Watching this game & many others this year , was like watching a bad horror movie predicting every scene hoping the ending will surprise or scare you

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11-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
If that trade wasn't made, would the Esks have had a bye this weekend because they were the conference leaders. Probably not, probably still losing to the eastern 2nd place team or missing playoffs with Ray as the quarterback
If the trade wasn't made...we finish 7-11 and crossover to the east. Coaching was responsible for almost every loss this year, including today's. Ray is better than Joseph, but not good enough to save this trainwreck of a franchise.

Maciocia, Reed, Crandell, Lowe, MacT, Tillman, Tambellini, Katz, Lelacheur....what the hell did we do to deserve this clown college of coaches/managers? Just fold both franchises and start from scratch. Put us out of our misery already. We might be the worst sports city in North America in the last deacde. We're the Cleveland of Canada.

Just when you think it can't get worse, it somehow does. It always does. Rock bottom was supposed to have been years ago. But somehow we keep digging deeper. I have not faith that this organization will turn it around, even if Reed is fired. They'll just find another idiot to invent new ways to lose that we've never even imagined.

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11-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #428
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Ray played well in this game, no doubt. That said we didn't make him do a whole lot and self imploded all over the football field.

Our offensive and defensive lines were embarrassing today. As per usual.

I have no idea, and have said this all year, how Koch is our starting center. On the play where Nichols leg is broken Koch watches as both Argos blow right by him on their way to that awful play.

I'll cede that no QB can or should have to contend with that and you just can't have that.

I hope Nichols is OK.

Anyway, we're all Esks fans here. No reason to chew each others heads off over this.

I wish everybody peace today and getting over whats yet another bad sports story for Edmonton fans.

Good luck to Ray, class act on and off the field.
Did Marcus Howard even play today/ Honestly, I don't think I heard his name mentioned once, either for a sack or any type of pressure. Okay, once. When RR ran up the middle and abused him for a first down. Other than that...nadda. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though, and assume he played while still having a badly injured hamstring.

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11-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Six in O6 View Post
lol wat.

We didn't score an opening drive touch down all year. That was Ray's bread and butter when he was here. I think at least some of those losses by 3 or fewer points (6 in total) would have had different results, with some better starts, and especially with Ray managing the ball.
this,

you are dreaming if you think that RR would have had a huge effect on the EE record this year. there are many concerns with this team, one maybe the way that the board still tries to stay in control on team decisions. I dont think that Tillman had the freedom he needed.

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11-11-2012, 04:33 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
If the trade wasn't made...we finish 7-11 and crossover to the east. Coaching was responsible for almost every loss this year, including today's. Ray is better than Joseph, but not good enough to save this trainwreck of a franchise.

Maciocia, Reed, Crandell, Lowe, MacT, Tillman, Tambellini, Katz, Lelacheur....what the hell did we do to deserve this clown college of coaches/managers? Just fold both franchises and start from scratch. Put us out of our misery already. We might be the worst sports city in North America in the last deacde. We're the Cleveland of Canada.

Just when you think it can't get worse, it somehow does. It always does. Rock bottom was supposed to have been years ago. But somehow we keep digging deeper. I have not faith that this organization will turn it around, even if Reed is fired. They'll just find another idiot to invent new ways to lose that we've never even imagined.
This year's team was at least as good as last years minus Ray. This team is much better with Ray at QB.

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11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
If the trade wasn't made...we finish 7-11 and crossover to the east. Coaching was responsible for almost every loss this year, including today's. Ray is better than Joseph, but not good enough to save this trainwreck of a franchise.

Maciocia, Reed, Crandell, Lowe, MacT, Tillman, Tambellini, Katz, Lelacheur....what the hell did we do to deserve this clown college of coaches/managers? Just fold both franchises and start from scratch. Put us out of our misery already. We might be the worst sports city in North America in the last deacde. We're the Cleveland of Canada.

Just when you think it can't get worse, it somehow does. It always does. Rock bottom was supposed to have been years ago. But somehow we keep digging deeper. I have not faith that this organization will turn it around, even if Reed is fired. They'll just find another idiot to invent new ways to lose that we've never even imagined.

Totally agree Kyle. This completely disfunctional organization has been an embarrassment to the city, all Eskimo long -time and new fans, and all Eskimo greats. Todays result was a fitting capper and exempifies this year in a 3 hour time capsule. If Reed is named GM, we might set the record for fines from the league for illegal moves. The entire coaching staff must be removed, and a total and complete look at every single player in the org must be looked at. As for the CEO and president, I want him looked at very closely as well. Blow it up and start over. Anyone out there that thinks a bit of tweeking here and there will do the job is being fooled big time.

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11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
this,

you are dreaming if you think that RR would have had a huge effect on the EE record this year. there are many concerns with this team, one maybe the way that the board still tries to stay in control on team decisions. I dont think that Tillman had the freedom he needed.
from all we've seen and heard, tillman had way too much freedom and he gutted the team for "canadian content" and "salary cap space" his usual MO. his onkly bad luck was not having a good team to win one cup before his house of cards came crashing down. just like danny Mac won one with someone elses team.
there is no way you can pin this on the board and not kavis and tillman.

tillman had not enough freedom? any more freedom and he would have probably changed the name and colour scheme and mooved the team to saskatoon.

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11-11-2012, 04:35 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
If the trade wasn't made...we finish 7-11 and crossover to the east. Coaching was responsible for almost every loss this year, including today's. Ray is better than Joseph, but not good enough to save this trainwreck of a franchise.

Maciocia, Reed, Crandell, Lowe, MacT, Tillman, Tambellini, Katz, Lelacheur....what the hell did we do to deserve this clown college of coaches/managers? Just fold both franchises and start from scratch. Put us out of our misery already. We might be the worst sports city in North America in the last deacde. We're the Cleveland of Canada.

Just when you think it can't get worse, it somehow does. It always does. Rock bottom was supposed to have been years ago. But somehow we keep digging deeper. I have not faith that this organization will turn it around, even if Reed is fired. They'll just find another idiot to invent new ways to lose that we've never even imagined.
Oh, come on. I'm not giving Reed an co. a free pass but you can't win with QBs like Joseph and Jyles as your starters, not on a consistent basis, not in this league.

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11-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #434
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On a lighter note, does anyone else think that when RR pushes his helmut up and it's kept up by his ears, that he looks a lot like Elmer Fudd?

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11-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
this,

you are dreaming if you think that RR would have had a huge effect on the EE record this year. there are many concerns with this team, one maybe the way that the board still tries to stay in control on team decisions. I dont think that Tillman had the freedom he needed.
I disagree. The margin for error on this season was very slim. Quarterbacking was not the problem last year and it was extremely below average this year. The personnel issues created by Tillman with QB, RB and K really hurt this team when it mattered most.

I recommend taking a listen to Tencer's comments on Tillman. I'm not his biggest fan, but I feel like he spoke the truth. Tillman probably had plenty of freedom to wheel and deal our assets from his cozy Regina home. That's the problem. He treated these players like spare parts and sold the identity of this team for nothing.

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11-11-2012, 04:37 PM
  #436
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This year's team was at least as good as last years minus Ray. This team is much better with Ray at QB.
Who was the Qb when we missed the playoffs?

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Old
11-11-2012, 04:40 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Who was the Qb when we missed the playoffs?
Who cares. There was 1 season where Ray was not very good. Other than that he is a franchise QB in the CFL. They should have been building a solid O-line for him and found him a good RB to give the ball to. There have been a lot of failures in the Esks organization in recent years but Ray isn't one of them (until the trade...).

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11-11-2012, 04:41 PM
  #438
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Who cares. There was 1 season where Ray was not very good. Other than that he is a franchise QB in the CFL. They should have been building a solid O-line for him and found him a good RB to give the ball to. There have been a lot of failures in the Esks organization in recent years but Ray isn't one of them (until the trade...).
he had a very good running back last year

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11-11-2012, 04:43 PM
  #439
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Who was the Qb when we missed the playoffs?
Not to mention Jason Maas deserves more credit for our 2005 Grey Cup than Ray does. We've only won one Grey Cup where Ray was actually doing anything to get there.

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11-11-2012, 04:43 PM
  #440
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This year's team was at least as good as last years minus Ray. This team is much better with Ray at QB.
Well at the end of the day, this team scored 5 fewer points this year than last year. Basically the difference was four close games lost by incredibly bad coaching. I think we are at best marginally better with Ray, and probably no better. Neither side of the Ray debate is ever going to be convinced otherwise at this point though.

One thing we call all agree on though, is that this franchise is a complete **** show thanks to the people that have coached and managed it. I don't think there will be much disagreement there.

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11-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #441
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he had a very good running back last year
And that RB was an aberration. Messam will never have another year like that.

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11-11-2012, 04:48 PM
  #442
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Well at the end of the day, this team scored 5 fewer points this year than last year. Basically the difference was four close games lost by incredibly bad coaching. I think we are at best marginally better with Ray, and probably no better. Neither side of the Ray debate is ever going to be convinced otherwise at this point though.

One thing we call all agree on though, is that this franchise is a complete **** show thanks to the people that have coached and managed it. I don't think there will be much disagreement there.
The organization needs an overhaul, not just the day to day management but as a whole.

why are the edmonton teams full of the old boys club

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11-11-2012, 04:48 PM
  #443
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Oh, come on. I'm not giving Reed an co. a free pass but you can't win with QBs like Joseph and Jyles as your starters, not on a consistent basis, not in this league.

Let's forget about the QB's for a second. How do you justify not keeping Charles in the game today? How do you justify having Sherritt play in a meaningless game last week, on an already tender ankle, and aggravating it enough to miss a playoff game? How do you justify sticking a useless Cory Boyd in for most of the game? How do you justify keeping a QB that is clearly rattled in a game, until it gets out of hand? Seriously, you don't see a problem with any of these decisions?

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11-11-2012, 04:48 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Well at the end of the day, this team scored 5 fewer points this year than last year. Basically the difference was four close games lost by incredibly bad coaching. I think we are at best marginally better with Ray, and probably no better. Neither side of the Ray debate is ever going to be convinced otherwise at this point though.

One thing we call all agree on though, is that this franchise is a complete **** show thanks to the people that have coached and managed it. I don't think there will be much disagreement there.
Last year the points were almost all because of Ray's running of the offense and driving the ball. The points this year were cause the defense forced a ridiculous number of turnovers and sometimes even scored on their own.

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11-11-2012, 04:49 PM
  #445
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The organization needs an overhaul, not just the day to day management but as a whole.

why are the edmonton teams full of the old boys club
Delusional self-satisfaction coupled with an attachment to the glory years.

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11-11-2012, 04:50 PM
  #446
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One thing we call all agree on though, is that this franchise is a complete **** show thanks to the people that have coached and managed it. I don't think there will be much disagreement there.
that's pretty well it.
sums it up as well as anything else said.

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11-11-2012, 04:51 PM
  #447
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this,

you are dreaming if you think that RR would have had a huge effect on the EE record this year. there are many concerns with this team, one maybe the way that the board still tries to stay in control on team decisions. I dont think that Tillman had the freedom he needed.
Are you serious? He traded our marquee and most highly paid player to Toronto? That is about as high a degree of freedom that I can think of at the moment.

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11-11-2012, 04:53 PM
  #448
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Anyway, as I stated last year, there's no such thing as a "re-build" in the Canadian Football League. You assemble a group of talented players and if all goes well and they gel as a team, you win. Period.

Hopefully, Ed Hervey is up to the task if he's named GM. He's certainly got an eye for talent considering that he found Sherritt.

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11-11-2012, 04:53 PM
  #449
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Let's forget about the QB's for a second. How do you justify not keeping Charles in the game today? How do you justify having Sherritt play in a meaningless game last week, on an already tender ankle, and aggravating it enough to miss a playoff game? How do you justify sticking a useless Cory Boyd in for most of the game? How do you justify keeping a QB that is clearly rattled in a game, until it gets out of hand? Seriously, you don't see a problem with any of these decisions?
Like I said, I'm not giving the coaching a pass. Things are never A or B. Usually it's a little bit of A, a little bit of B...and a little bit of C. Coaching, personnel, and circumstance. All of these things contribute to success or failure. Trading Ricky Ray (for what we got back) was a poor move. More often then not, the coaching was poor too.

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11-11-2012, 04:54 PM
  #450
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Last year the points were almost all because of Ray's running of the offense and driving the ball. The points this year were cause the defense forced a ridiculous number of turnovers and sometimes even scored on their own.
After last year's 5-0 start, Ray ceased to move the ball any better than much of what we've seen this year. The defense was the reason for most of the success we had last year, much like this year. Injuries on the line sunk that defense this year, though. As did ignoring the run by the time Labour Day rolled around. Just like this year. I'm sensing a pattern here....

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