Interesting how Reed says they got rid of Swayze Waters because of his import status and their desire to go Canadian at both kicker positions. And then we trade away a first round pick for yet another Canadian kicker who they then felt wasn't good enough to challenge for either a punting or place-kicking position. From what I've seen, Waters is a better kicker than Shaw will ever be, and would have been worth it to keep on the roster. Which import position are we going to lose that hurts us - Cory Boyd? lmao.
Can't say I'm shocked - JC was a huge loss, Ray was on his game (despite some clearly still trying to discredit him), Kavis took too long to pull KJ and the Nichols injured sewered any hope of a comeback.
That said, the cancer is gone, time to start healing. Biggest off-season the Esks have had in ages (keep in mind, Tillman was hired mid-season).
I'll start to heal the minute the Board hires some competent people as President and/or GM
so far they've hired Maciocia and Tillman (two sub-par GMs) and fired the best coach this team had in years (Higgins) due to one play
and so far Rhodes has proven less than effective
my confidence at the top of the organization is shaken
And now it's also time to ask for the neck of arrogant team president Len Rhodes. It was he that said he approved of the Ricky Ray trade. To approve the shyte that we got back and no QB options is a fireable offence. Start at the top and let's clean this house once and for all. The stench is unbelievable.
In defense of Rhodes, maybe Tillman told him he was going after a different QB?
I know I thought he would. The day Ray was traded I just assumed McPherson or Porter was going to be brought in. I cannot believe we went into the season with Jyles as the starter. It still might have worked with anything resembling a coaching staff, but we sure didn't have that.
Would be nice if for once one of the teams in this city made a quick, decisive move and fired the entire coaching staff, or at least Reed, tomorrow morning. Not screwing around for weeks and then doing it, or worse yet not at all. At least give the fans that have been so badly abused something to smile about tomorrow.
Seriously? You think Rod the Mod Williams is an answer at CB? He has been pathetic the entire year, last years playoff game against B.C and again this year. He is the weak link on defence. As for the coaching of the defence, how did you like all those blitzes we ran today, that put RR on his heals? I think the first one occured with about 4 minutes left in the first half with Munoz getting a sack. After the Argos had built up a 24-7 lead. As far as I'm concerned, the entire coaching staff on this team has to be fired after this debacle. That includes Nelson, whom I had some high hopes for, but I don't beleive he has a clue despite having some very good overall talent back there that do some nice things despite him.
As for the offence, I don't have enough space and time on here to list the changes needed at this time.
Seriously? Did i say anything about Rod Williams? As i said, there is a lot of turnover in football... Doesn't matter how good the defense was the year before it's almost always a certainty to see changes. I never said anything that indicated Williams couldn't be replaced, he's one guy not the whole defense. I said it early on in the year if the offense couldn't get it going the defense would be worn down by the end of the year, that IMO is the biggest reason for things like sloppy tackles. They spent a lot of time on the field. One game also doesn't define a team/unit. Like Reed or not when he came our defense improved substantially and been as good as could be expected. You people need to calm down a little and not be chanting for scorched earth immediatly having your hearts ripped out. Even an average offense (i.e. the one Ray would have in the least brought) would have seen the Eskies contend for a divison title. A good offense is paramount to the effectiveness and health of the defense. Like the play calls or not the defense hasn't been to blame for this season, we'd be the laughingstock of the league if it wasn't for our D. I think Reed trusted Crandall too much and if he can find a capable guy to run the offense the team should be able to contend for a Cup for sure. With Nicholls in house and Reilly as a Free Agent i think the Eskimos should be able to find somebody at least competent to play behind center.
Is there anyone on here who thinks the current coaching staff should be back next season?
I don't. We were a comedy of errors in regards to coaching. I love Reed's speaches, that's about it. I think he has the heart of a head coach, maybe no brains to go with it.
Crandell is a waste of space and as for our D, it was a disaster as well. To be honest, I didn't get to see the game but kept up with the score in real time on TSN. Watching the panel breakdown the **** show, it showed TO having 6 guys on the line every single play waiting to hunt down Joseph. Now, I am no football guru, but wouldn't you think that might be an easy thing to adjust to when your QB is getting hounded all night? Or am I missing something?
Between TC violations, continual mix ups on the sidelines and just overall stupidity on the players part we continually got worse instead of improving over the year. I don't question alot of guys on team often, but I'm starting to wonder if there was such poor leadership on this team from the coaching end that they were just a product of what was a disaster in the making.
And Tillman can go F himself as well. What a legacy to leave hey? Screwing a whole football team over and then headed off into the sunset. He should be ashamed of hmself, but then again I think the guy is a sociopath with not a care in the world anyway.
I cannot believe I defended him early in the season. I was tired of Ray but the junk he got in return is unbelievable. At least if he ends up in TO we can see there was a method to his madness. If not, he really is as dumb as he looks.
Seriously? Did i say anything about Rod Williams? As i said, there is a lot of turnover in football... Doesn't matter how good the defense was the year before it's almost always a certainty to see changes. I never said anything that indicated Williams couldn't be replaced, he's one guy not the whole defense. I said it early on in the year if the offense couldn't get it going the defense would be worn down by the end of the year, that IMO is the biggest reason for things like sloppy tackles. They spent a lot of time on the field. One game also doesn't define a team/unit. Like Reed or not when he came our defense improved substantially and been as good as could be expected. You people need to calm down a little and not be chanting for scorched earth immediatly having your hearts ripped out. Even an average offense (i.e. the one Ray would have in the least brought) would have seen the Eskies contend for a divison title. A good offense is paramount to the effectiveness and health of the defense. Like the play calls or not the defense hasn't been to blame for this season, we'd be the laughingstock of the league if it wasn't for our D. I think Reed trusted Crandall too much and if he can find a capable guy to run the offense the team should be able to contend for a Cup for sure. With Nicholls in house and Reilly as a Free Agent i think the Eskimos should be able to find somebody at least competent to play behind center.
I have some bad news for you. We ARE the laughing stock of the league. Traded away our starting QB for magic beans, traded away a 1st and 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft for a kicker that we never thought enough of to play (when we already have a kicker from said previous trade for starting QB), brought in a 2nd and then 3rd starting RB to mess up our current #1 RB status and put us right at the salary cap limit again(which we traded away starting QB to make room for), continued to play veteran QB's when it was obvious to everyone out there (fans, analysts, former players) that the team needed to move in a new direction. Abandoned the run game. Players not being instructed on what to do on kick returns. Never incorporated an aggressive defence. Played their best defensive player in a nothing game, aggravating his tender ankle and making him unavailable for a playoff game. Unable to adjust at halftime to anything the opponent would do. Had an abnormal number of pre-snap penalties every single game. Put wrong personnel on the field continuously (even had a punting formation set up without the punter on the field). Constantly burning time outs because of confusion. Team never ready to play at beginning of game (never scored an opening game touchdown until game 19 and outscored badly in 1st quarter). Poor tackling fundamentals. No return game. Mediocre return coverage game. GM fired one week before playoff game. CEO says he approved trade and refused to give any reasons for firing. Leaving most of your defensive starters unsigned as free agents going in to the off-season. These are not my opinions of the team. These are things that happened throughout this year, and I'm sure I've missed more than half of them. Denial that this team doesn't need massive changes isn't going to help.
If this type of stuff doesn't scream out "scorched earth cleansing" in an organization, then I really don't know what does. But hey, let's just keep those Eskimo rose coloured glasses on, bury our heads in the sand, continue to buy those ticket packages, and watch the **** show of dysfunctionality as we go from LaLacheur to Maciocia to Tillman to Rhodes to Reed to Crandall to....
Last edited by Stoneman89: 11-12-2012 at 09:51 AM.
Is there anyone on here who thinks the current coaching staff should be back next season?
I don't. We were a comedy of errors in regards to coaching. I love Reed's speaches, that's about it. I think he has the heart of a head coach, maybe no brains to go with it.
Crandell is a waste of space and as for our D, it was a disaster as well. To be honest, I didn't get to see the game but kept up with the score in real time on TSN. Watching the panel breakdown the **** show, it showed TO having 6 guys on the line every single play waiting to hunt down Joseph. Now, I am no football guru, but wouldn't you think that might be an easy thing to adjust to when your QB is getting hounded all night? Or am I missing something?
Between TC violations, continual mix ups on the sidelines and just overall stupidity on the players part we continually got worse instead of improving over the year. I don't question alot of guys on team often, but I'm starting to wonder if there was such poor leadership on this team from the coaching end that they were just a product of what was a disaster in the making.
And Tillman can go F himself as well. What a legacy to leave hey? Screwing a whole football team over and then headed off into the sunset. He should be ashamed of hmself, but then again I think the guy is a sociopath with not a care in the world anyway.
I cannot believe I defended him early in the season. I was tired of Ray but the junk he got in return is unbelievable. At least if he ends up in TO we can see there was a method to his madness. If not, he really is as dumb as he looks.
i don't think the tillman to toronto thing is for real, but if it is, the league should reject the contract. after the ray trade alone, then going to the team he made such a pathetic lopsided deal with? it wouldn't pass the smell test.
OK, a day later and I'm still angry at this. Kyle Koch disgusts me. Watching him hover over Nichols as he lay writhing on the field all that was going on in my mind is the two guys that came free on the play(which happened countless times in the game) came through on either side of Koch. Koch, on the play, is busy looking one way, not taking that man, and looking the other, and not taking that man. All he did on the play was snap the ball and swivel his thick neck. He's a slow unmotivated **** that does nothing game after game but suck but is the type of guy who in the dressing room says all the right things.
Things like today: "If you're not buying in its time to get out" with Kyle apparently believing himself that he's buying in and contributing anything of value. This being a guy who looks slow, old, useless out there and is only 27yrs old. A guy that sailed a snap nearly by Josephs head on the first drive of the game. Miraculously Joseph had the presence of mind to tip it up and haul it in and it didn't end up in our endzone. This is what Kyle Koch gives you on the second snap of the game. When you're not digging the snap out of the dirt.
That Kavis Reed can't evaluate a guy like Koch is symbolic of the mismanagement of this team. Lots of other examples like that where one guy starts instead of another but its one that keeps coming back to me.
Anyone think GJ Kinne could be the starter next year?
CFL is going to become a much more explosive passing league over the next decade with so many NCAA programs running an "air raid" type offense. It used to be Hawaii and Texas Tech for the longest time. Now, there are literally a dozen or more programs running the air-raid and multiple QBs coming out of the college ranks who can make every throw in the book but will never get an NFL shot.
Kinne can make every throw. Better arm than Nichols. Curious to see how this kid does in camp next year.
I'm just not sold on guys like Dennis Dixon and Jeremiah Masoli who are running QB's. They make one read and if he's covered they scramble around like mad men.
Kinne is a pure passer and a damn good one. I'll take the pure passer who can run when he needs to over a running QB who has no touch.
Mark Nelson should definetely be back. I would still have Kavis back, he didn't have the tools to do anything this year. If you don't have the tools it doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to win. Ed Hervey should be are new GM.
Mark Nelson should definetely be back. I would still have Kavis back, he didn't have the tools to do anything this year. If you don't have the tools it doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to win. Ed Hervey should be are new GM.
The game yesterday was maybe the worst coached I have ever seen. He deserves to be fired on that alone.
Agree on Mark Nelson. He was able to have some success with the guys he was given this season.
Bruce Lemmerman president, Ed Hervey GM and Paul Lapolice can be the new head coach......that would be a culture change.
You fire Reed as the head coach, and it is highly unlikely that Nelson hangs in there as the next HC's pick for DC. LaPolice would bring his own guys. Unless you think this is like an Oilers situation where Bucky seemingly has 9 lives.
After digesting what happened for a day, a few things don't change.
Kavis Reed for one, has to go. After this season, and especially the playoff game, there is no way you can bring him back saying he's the best choice for us to try win the grey cup.
His problems have been well documented, but lets summarize. His inability to have this team playing disciplined football (time count violation anyone?), inability to continue to run even when we have 2-2.5 capable running backs and have had success when running the ball(we're something like 6-0 if we rush >15 times), and his stubborness in terms of starting a QB where he plays friends and has cost us a fair number of games.
Those are off the top of my head, but there are others I'm sure. He looked like a completely different Head Coach at the end of last season, but this season, all he's done is very much different than last year.
You can't bring him in next season though. Let me preface by saying I hate change. I think continuity at a football club is a key element in future success. But I don't know if you can bring Kavis Reed back next year and say with confidence, we're challenging for the Grey Cup. He had an absolute abysmal season coaching. You'll have a number of changes on the personnel side of the ball, I don't think you can get the best out of them if Reed has another season like he did this one coaching wise. Same story with Crandell. Nelson I'm on the fence about, but a new HC should be able to choose his staff. It's frustrating but I think Reed has to go. We had a good D and a good rushing attack, pro football teams have shown with those two elements, you can win games convincingly. Yet we choose to rely on our weakest link on the team through out season, that's poor coaching. Plain and simple.
On the player personnel side of things:
On the D. I like our D-line, and think if they were healthy, it would've shown to be a dominant group. Laurent has been an outstanding pickup by Tillman for a 2nd round pick. His ability to play both the pass and the run really effectively has really solidified the middle. Donny O has been good against the run and surprisingly useful rushing the passer. Howard is Howard, and a terror off the edge. We need him healthy. Williams was ok before injury, I though Lang played really well.
Our LBers are OK. Truth be told I want to bring in one more impact LBer to compliment Sherritt. Maybe someone who is more adept at rushing the passer or someone who is better at dropping into coverage. I think we need one more player here.
Secondary wise, I'd like to add atleast someone to replace Rod Williams. If we can upgrade in a big way, this group becomes even better. I think we can and it should really help this become a much more scary D(it's good, but it can get so much better).
On the offense:
QB: We all know this situation. Both Jyles and Joseph should be gone. No questions asked. I bring in one CFL 'vet', like say a McPherson(if he's available) or a Kevin Glenn (should Calgary release him) and neg list guy (target Dennis Dixon from the Ravens), in addition to Nichols and Masoli. Have a QB competition in training camp and have the best QB start. Having healthy competition on the roster can only be a good thing.
RB: I actually don't think this group needs as much work as some thing. Cut Boyd, have Messam healthy, and run with Charles, Messam and McCarthy. Have some additional bodies around in case of injury. It's a fine group. Just use them.
WR: Again with this group I wouldn't change much. I think having Bowman back will be big for this group. Bowman, Stamps, Koch, Chambers and Coehoorn is a pretty formidable group. Especially since I love the potential of the latter 2 (namely Chambers who could a monster). I think it's fine.
O-line: We need some work here. I'd bring in Pasztor if we can and have him compete. Firstly Kyle Koch needs to be replaced. I know he's a NI, but he gets beaten like a rented mule on far too many plays. Bring in another NI, however more expensive that may cost, and replace him. Rottier and Wojt are fine as starting G's imo. Hinse looked good as starting C IIRC, but bringing in more competition is not a bad thing. We have alot of NI depth otherwise. Mitchell looks to be coming along great. Pasztor should have the ability to potentially play LT if given time to get used to the CFL (he gave up 5 pressures in his college career at Virginia as a LG). Between those 2, I think we have our best shot at a NI LT, but I don't think I'd risk it next season. Let them earn it before handing them the position. Steenbergen, Stevenson Ramsey, O'Donnell are good depth NI players, but I'm not sure how many of them are needed. O'Donnell is raw, and I think he was thrown into the deep end. I think he could be useful if given time. I'd keep a guy like OT Orin Thompson. So going into next season we'd have:
OT: Pasztor/Thompson/O'Donnell/Mitchell/Steenbergen(?)
OG: Rottier/Wojt/Ramsey
C: Hinse/New guy
Thompson would be LT, Rotter LG, Hinse C, Wojt RG and one of Pasztor/Mitchell/O'Donnell would be RT.
Spend money on the D and at QB though, I think O-line isn't as bad as it looks, and rather our QBs made them look worse (notice how protection got magically better when Nichols played?). We just need them healthy and a good QB behind them.
Special teams: Our coverage unit needs to be better. Our kicking situation is a bit of a cluster****. I think at this point you have to cut Dales. Great punter, and a NI, but Shaw has shown he can do the punting duties and we spent a 1st rounder on McKnight. Dales will give us cap space too. He was worth his contract and played well, but we made an idiotic decision that leads to him leaving the team. Even though he was good while he was here.
I don't think we're as far as some people think, it's just we need to hit on a few things.
__________________ <-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
You fire Reed as the head coach, and it is highly unlikely that Nelson hangs in there as the next HC's pick for DC. LaPolice would bring his own guys. Unless you think this is like an Oilers situation where Bucky seemingly has 9 lives.
True that, but it would be a chance i'd be willing to take. Between the two, we'd be better off with Lapolice. If Mark doesn't want to work with Paul then that's fine.
Oh and for head coaches I'd like one with an offensive pedigree please. Someone who can get the best out of our offensive weapons.
Also, I see alot of people say Ed Hervey should be GM. I know he's a head scout, but does he have experience in any other side of football? Namely man management, contracts etc etc? That side is important too, so just wondering. (honest question, appreciate any answers).
Oh and for head coaches I'd like one with an offensive pedigree please. Someone who can get the best out of our offensive weapons.
Also, I see alot of people say Ed Hervey should be GM. I know he's a head scout, but does he have experience in any other side of football? Namely man management, contracts etc etc? That side is important too, so just wondering. (honest question, appreciate any answers).
Hervey doesn't yet have the experience you are asking about. He's a great finder of talent, but he hasn't been doing the other things that a good GM needs to do, such as managing the cap, dealing with players and agents, dealing with GMs from other teams (trades, etc.). I think he shows a lot of potential but I'm not sure he's ready.
However, I expect that the new guy will be either Hervey (he'd have to learn on the job) or Lemmerman. Odds-on favourite it will be one of them.
I don't know if Kavis will be back, but if he is you can count on some other things happening. Kavis and Joseph come as a pair. If Kavis is here, Joseph will also be here. This is 99% certain. Jyles will not be back, regardless who is the coach.
As QBs, right now these appear to be the most likely candidates for camp: Nichols (we hope), Masoli (the coaches love this guy and he's been the best QB in practices), Joseph (Kavis likes his leadership) and two of Dixon, Gautier and maybe a current CFL QB signed from another team (McPherson or Reilly, for example). Nichols will have an MRI and the fear always is torn ligaments, which can be a career ender or mean a very long recovery.
LaPolice is garbage. Let's not be taking Winnipeg's scraps, they're no model franchise. This team needs to build from within, they need to take a long look at some of the assets within this organization and assess their need from there.
LaPolice is garbage. Let's not be taking Winnipeg's scraps, they're no model franchise. This team needs to build from within, they need to take a long look at some of the assets within this organization and assess their need from there.
Like who for instance?
If Kavis Reed returns as HC, Ive had enough and will no longer support the team. I would wager Im not alone in that line of thinking.
This is a dangerous time imo. Who is making these football/hiring decisions? Rhodes?
LaPolice is garbage. Let's not be taking Winnipeg's scraps, they're no model franchise. This team needs to build from within, they need to take a long look at some of the assets within this organization and assess their need from there.
So, Crandell for Head Coach?
Good teams build from within, not last place teams. If we promote a member of this staff, we've basically just pulled an Oilers, who are the furthest thing from a model franchise. Every major member of the staff needs to go. Reed and Crandell without question. The fact that Nelson refused to blitz against a QB who's kryptonite is the blitz is an unflattering indictment on his intelligence. Kick returns were poor this year, and we capped the season off by booting a ball straight to Chad Owens that promptly went the other way. Whoever is in charge of special teams can GTFO too.
LaPolice got a very average roster to the Grey Cup last year. Reed did much worse with better personnel. I'd have no problem bringing in LaPolice.
If Kavis Reed returns as HC, Ive had enough and will no longer support the team. I would wager Im not alone in that line of thinking.
This is a dangerous time imo. Who is making these football/hiring decisions? Rhodes?
That's scary.
I'm almost willing to give Kavis the benefit of the doubt and another shot at it given that he looked pretty decent in the previous season but if what Moneyguy says is true and that means Joseph is back then so long Kavis.
Rhodes is in it pretty deep here. I dont think he or the board thought he'd be required to make so many football decisions. Looks like they blundered in that hiring as well as the Tillman one. They needed a football guy with some business sense to run the organization not a business guy who knew a little bit about football.
I'll start to heal the minute the Board hires some competent people as President and/or GM
so far they've hired Maciocia and Tillman (two sub-par GMs) and fired the best coach this team had in years (Higgins) due to one play
and so far Rhodes has proven less than effective
my confidence at the top of the organization is shaken
what was this play, i always wondered what got higgins fired, we always did great with him here
From what I've seen, Waters is a better kicker than Shaw will ever be, and would have been worth it to keep on the roster. Which import position are we going to lose that hurts us - Cory Boyd? lmao
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<-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
