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Luongo Thread: Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:45 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Realistically I think a 2nd or something of similar value would have to be added though, just to make it seem like a package. How often do star players get traded 1-for-1 for a non-star player?
It would have to be JVR + 1st (top 5 protected, becomes a 2014 1st + 2013 2nd).

The 1st is more important than JVR because it would allow us to go shopping at the deadline with two 1sts...I would take Gardiner + 1st (again protected) as well.

Otherwise I want to keep Luongo. Might as well have a backup plan if Schneider can't do what he does as a starter.

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11-09-2012, 05:02 PM
  #302
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It doesn't mean that bottom 5 teams will line up to pay a huge price. Luongo improves the Leafs...yes, but how much?
More than you will ever know...

I honestly think you should be looking at other goaltender options (and forget that Luongo even exists)... Just not going to happen with Toronto, IMO... For it to happen, the way you would like, things have to line up in Toronto's favour in such a way that it is very unlikely to happen... Your best bet is a market of 1 team for his services (where there is allegedly already 5 or 6), a disruptively disgruntled Luongo (who is pleased to stay), a Luongo who prefers to be a Leaf than a Panther (or remain a Canuck for a while longer, waiting for new opportunities that only time can bring) - who has already openly expressed a desire to be a Panther), and several million in Canuck cap space that needs to be freed ASAP (when there is, last I checked, currently ample cap space available)...

When Burke and co were in town, Gillis didn't even go to the game... Perhaps he had to wash his hair... With regards to Toronto, pay up, or get out, IMHO... Burke is just not going to get Luongo...

Maybe go around team boards and see what Kadri and a 1st (or even lower) can get you in terms of a goaltender? You might be able to get a fine enough one...

Close your eyes, sit comfortably... *snap* Luongo no longer exists...

You are now free... Namaste.

Peace to you, my hockey fan brother.


Last edited by I in the Eye: 11-09-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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11-09-2012, 05:15 PM
  #303
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There is more than one place to post this but a Mirtlle re-tweet indicates that Kadri is scratched from tonight's Marlies game. Eakins said to be upset with his recent performance.

This kid isn't getting it.

Given that he is sometimes mentioned in Luongo trade...
Lance Hornby ‏@sunhornby
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Nazem Kadri among scratches tonight, Joe Colborne too. Dallas Eakins was critical of them Thurs. D Mark Fraser out, too.
Colborne has 4A is 9 GP. Kadri has 3A in 9 GP. Neither has a goal.

Haven't followed the Marlies closely, but Eakins seems 'interesting'. He's got two 3rd yr AHL players who are suddenly struggling. Gotta wonder how much that has to do with his coaching and his systems.

Either way, I'm sure it's a huge red flag for Gillis. No wonder he's asking for Gardiner, they just don't have other pieces that are appealing right now.

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11-09-2012, 05:49 PM
  #304
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More than you will ever know...

I honestly think you should be looking at other goaltender options (and forget that Luongo even exists)... Just not going to happen with Toronto, IMO... For it to happen, the way you would like, things have to line up in Toronto's favour in such a way that it is very unlikely to happen... Your best bet is a market of 1 team for his services (where there is allegedly already 5 or 6), a disruptively disgruntled Luongo (who is pleased to stay), a Luongo who prefers to be a Leaf than a Panther (or remain a Canuck for a while longer, waiting for new opportunities that only time can bring) - who has already openly expressed a desire to be a Panther), and several million in Canuck cap space that needs to be freed ASAP (when there is, last I checked, currently ample cap space available)...

When Burke and co were in town, Gillis didn't even go to the game... Perhaps he had to wash his hair... With regards to Toronto, pay up, or get out, IMHO... Burke is just not going to get Luongo...

Maybe go around team boards and see what Kadri and a 1st (or even lower) can get you in terms of a goaltender? You might be able to get a fine enough one...

Close your eyes, sit comfortably... *snap* Luongo no longer exists...

You are now free... Namaste.

Peace to you, my hockey fan brother.
Ok...so the team with the most glaring neec for a goalie is out. That should really push up Luongo's value. I agree with you on 1 point though, i think you should keep Luongo.

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11-09-2012, 06:05 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Lance Hornby ‏@sunhornby


Colborne has 4A is 9 GP. Kadri has 3A in 9 GP. Neither has a goal.

Haven't followed the Marlies closely, but Eakins seems 'interesting'. He's got two 3rd yr AHL players who are suddenly struggling. Gotta wonder how much that has to do with his coaching and his systems.

Either way, I'm sure it's a huge red flag for Gillis. No wonder he's asking for Gardiner, they just don't have other pieces that are appealing right now.
Can someone who knows the CBA well answer something?

I looked for it but couldn't figure out when Kadri becomes waiver eligible. I think he has this year and next year where he is free from waivers?

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11-09-2012, 06:09 PM
  #306
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Ok...so the team with the most glaring neec for a goalie is out. That should really push up Luongo's value. I agree with you on 1 point though, i think you should keep Luongo.
How does it push up value, when the Toronto offers imply there is not a significant need? Only if Toronto is offering significant value, representative of a significant need, does Toronto push Luongo's value up... If Toronto is offering the lowest of the offers, despite having the most need, Toronto doesn't push value up...

You would think, that the team that needs Luongo the most, would be willing to offer the most for Luongo... But, this is Burke... He's in a world of his own regarding the value of goaltenders...

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11-09-2012, 06:46 PM
  #307
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Am i one of a few that is getting tired of all these Leaf proposal,s?If GMMG is wanting somthing good for Luongo in return.He will not be even be thinking about sending Luongo to TO.There are other teams with better options then what TO has.

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11-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #308
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@*************** I haven't even told my parents where I'd be willing to waive to......
Not sure if this was posted yet...

EDIT: The asterisks are Hockey Insider.

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11-09-2012, 06:58 PM
  #309
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Not just Hodgson but to an extent yes. Of course, it's just a gut feeling I get but at the draft he had this expression that I'm familiar with - the one where you wanted a Beatles CD for Christmas but got the new Nickelback CD.
The other way of looking at is he thought he was the Beatles cd and the NHL thought he was the nickleback cd. He may have had people filling his head with thoughts of slipping into the top 10, as he fell he got more and more disappointed.

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11-09-2012, 06:58 PM
  #310
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How does it push up value, when the Toronto offers imply there is not a significant need? Only if Toronto is offering significant value, representative of a significant need, does Toronto push Luongo's value up... If Toronto is offering the lowest of the offers, despite having the most need, Toronto doesn't push value up...

You would think, that the team that needs Luongo the most, would be willing to offer the most for Luongo... But, this is Burke... He's in a world of his own regarding the value of goaltenders...
Care to list some of these "better" offers of which you speak. Care to tell me why Burke is going to increase his offer when thete is little to no indication that any other GM is offering a decent let alone premium package? If on believes the rumours, here are the interested teams...TO; FLA, maybe Chi, CBJ and a mystery team some believe to be Edm. Tallon pretty much said he would only be interestex if it was a cheap deal as he is happy with what they have. Chi has not even stated interest. I doubt Luongo is interested in CBJ. Edm has recently said they may be intetestex but again, Luongo may not be.

We know Burke has made at least one offer. We don't know that any othet team has...so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?

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11-09-2012, 07:06 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Lance Hornby ?@sunhornby


Colborne has 4A is 9 GP. Kadri has 3A in 9 GP. Neither has a goal.

Haven't followed the Marlies closely, but Eakins seems 'interesting'. He's got two 3rd yr AHL players who are suddenly struggling. Gotta wonder how much that has to do with his coaching and his systems.

Either way, I'm sure it's a huge red flag for Gillis. No wonder he's asking for Gardiner, they just don't have other pieces that are appealing right now.

No, this is perfect. Kadri and Colborne are prime targets to be moved, and they're hurting their own value. Which makes them "cheaper" to acquire. A true buy low state.


I've been thinking about this and _if_ it came down to Bozak + Frattin or Colborne + Kadri, the former actually having NHL pedigree, I'd prefer Colborne + Kadri. Assume more risk in the deal for the chance of a greater upside.


Colborne steps into the 3C position right now, and Kadri can be on the RW, where Frattin would have been. It just makes too much sense for these two, more mature prospects, to be dealt IMO.

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11-09-2012, 07:06 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
We know Burke has made at least one offer. We don't know that any othet team has...so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?
Perhaps Burke is one of those people that thinks the more you spend on something the better it is.

I am surprised so many people take these rumours and possible rumours so seriously.

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11-09-2012, 07:07 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Care to list some of these "better" offers of which you speak. Care to tell me why Burke is going to increase his offer when thete is little to no indication that any other GM is offering a decent let alone premium package? If on believes the rumours, here are the interested teams...TO; FLA, maybe Chi, CBJ and a mystery team some believe to be Edm. Tallon pretty much said he would only be interestex if it was a cheap deal as he is happy with what they have. Chi has not even stated interest. I doubt Luongo is interested in CBJ. Edm has recently said they may be intetestex but again, Luongo may not be.

We know Burke has made at least one offer. We don't know that any othet team has...so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?
so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?[/QUOTE]Because he likes playing with himself(i mean by himself)

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11-09-2012, 07:08 PM
  #314
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The other way of looking at is he thought he was the Beatles cd and the NHL thought he was the nickleback cd. He may have had people filling his head with thoughts of slipping into the top 10, as he fell he got more and more disappointed.
Yeah, possibly. That's a more optimistic way to look at it for sure.

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11-09-2012, 07:17 PM
  #315
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It could be a trend... But why not build a team that isn't subject to trends? Right now they play a skill game. It does well vs. opponents that also try to play a skill game. However, it fails against the bigger, grinding teams. So if they add enough bigger, grinding elements themselves, they can play against any style. Handle more situations. Essentially, be more versatile than they are now. Logical?
I tend to disagree the size argument has exceptional effect the media perpetuates. We lost to Boston due to injuries in every player worth mentioning on our roster, not because of their supposedly intimidating physicality. In fact, Montreal, a often mocked "smurf team" nearly toppled Boston that year and has routinely been their Achilles' heel despite never matching up to the size debate.

In addition, Nashville employed a more tight-net defensive style and relied on their size, yet Kesler near single-handily destroyed them. Even with the aforementioned injuries, we crawled on to a seventh game showdown.

LA is the only team to have overwhelmed us physical, and that is largely due to Kesler and Sedin's injuries, alongside a poorly designed new direction AV attempted.

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Remember the line Gillis spoke: If Kassian reaches his potential, there's maybe 5-6 players in the league he joins (not verbatim), and those players don't become available afterwards... That's what Kassian represents, the opportunity to develop that type of player in-house. He cost Hodgson. Does this team have a bunch of Hodgson level prospects to trade that they can be so non-chalant about trading Kassian now? No. They don't.
While they do not have those prospects in abundance. The opportunity to acquire players of Kessel's talent is far more minuscule. Not to mention at his age, he could be our replacement to the Sedin era when it inevitably comes. That is not to demean Kassian's value, but merely demonstrate Kessel's in comparison.

I do agree he is not going anywhere and these trade discussions are more or less for ***** and giggles.

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centre centre centre. That needs fixing first if you are looking at the playoffs. Kesler getting hurt = scoring depth died. Henrik gets hurt scoring dies.
Agreed, although I suspect we could very easily pry Connolly away from Toronto. Otherwise, we are not going to get a center that can fill in for Kesler temporarily and actually be somewhat decent doing so; not unless we intent to pay a hefty price.

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While i don't argue with your assesment, this stands true for ALL of the Leafs d-core. The reason is because our forwards do not play defense...i mean.....at all. So, if our d make a bad pinch, they are generally screwed.

I'd also like to address the notion of a Luongo for Phaneuf deal....we have traded Schenn as you all know, so if we deal Phaneuf we are left with:

????/Gunner
Liles/Gardiner
Komi/Franson(unsigned)/Holzer(rookie callup)

Phaneuf literally can not be traded.
Aye, it did seem in the number of Leaf games I saw last season their only strategy was "shoot and pray." Have to wonder if that is a fault of the talent or Wilson. I somewhat suspect the latter a lot more.

Oh, I wouldn't make the trade from a Leaf perspective for exactly the reasons you laid out. It had just come up a few times. Likewise, I would not move Gardiner for Luongo. On your defense though, isn't it rumored Rielly will crack the lineup?

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Are you making this statement based on watching him play or nhl.com stats page? BTW, Henrik is a ppg guy in the playoffs over the last 4 years. So is Daniel. I'd have no issue with Kessel being a Canuck, but I am not giving up Schneider and Kassian for him.

The guy can't score against the Bruins, the ONE team you'd expect him to get up for. And that's in the regular season.
In that instance, stats, but I have seem enough of him to say he arguably boarding underrated status if we go along with HF's opinion. I readily concede Kessel shys away from just about any form of defense however, him not scoring against Boston is likely more to do with them being his former team. Some players struggle and everyone has that one team they just do not perform well against. There is a reason Boston fans are so elated when they defeat Montreal.

Anyhow, I doubt Burke could ever trade Kessel after all he gave up to get him.

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11-09-2012, 07:22 PM
  #316
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Care to list some of these "better" offers of which you speak. Care to tell me why Burke is going to increase his offer when thete is little to no indication that any other GM is offering a decent let alone premium package? If on believes the rumours, here are the interested teams...TO; FLA, maybe Chi, CBJ and a mystery team some believe to be Edm. Tallon pretty much said he would only be interestex if it was a cheap deal as he is happy with what they have. Chi has not even stated interest. I doubt Luongo is interested in CBJ. Edm has recently said they may be intetestex but again, Luongo may not be.

We know Burke has made at least one offer. We don't know that any othet team has...so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?


Actually, we know via rumour that EDM has made the best offer to date. They are also _not_ the mystery team. Which some speculated to be SJS.


We also know, from Lu's own mouth, that he has not exercised his NTC for _any_ team.


Again, if we go by rumour, the last deal Burke was rumoured to have offered, after Schenn was dealt, was Kulemin + Komisarek + 1st. Gillis rumoured to counter that with Gardiner + Frattin + Bozak + 1st (and some say even more). That's how far apart they are. Far enough that TO's need doesn't seem to be influencing their offers.


Lastly, this seems like a complete fabrication, but I did read a rumour that CLB wanted Luongo + Raymond for Nash, and Lu refused to waive his NTC in this case. But since we know now that Lu has never refused, this seems really out of left field. Anyways, make of that what you will.

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11-09-2012, 07:32 PM
  #317
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Care to list some of these "better" offers of which you speak. Care to tell me why Burke is going to increase his offer when thete is little to no indication that any other GM is offering a decent let alone premium package? If on believes the rumours, here are the interested teams...TO; FLA, maybe Chi, CBJ and a mystery team some believe to be Edm. Tallon pretty much said he would only be interestex if it was a cheap deal as he is happy with what they have. Chi has not even stated interest. I doubt Luongo is interested in CBJ. Edm has recently said they may be intetestex but again, Luongo may not be.

We know Burke has made at least one offer. We don't know that any othet team has...so why would Burke get into an auction with himself?
I don't need to, nor can I, list the better offers... I can't even list Burke's offer... I can't list any offer... I don't know... I don't know who put in offers, and I don't know what the offers are... You don't either... I believe half of what I see, and none of what I hear (by nature)... You might buy into or agree with the rumours more than I do... But, you and I both know that Burke isn't going to pay a real high price... That's a given, agreed?

However, unlike you, I don't assume that just because Burke has the biggest need, he has made the best offer... I don't believe that Burke is setting this Luongo market... Burke will not pay as much as other teams would, IMHO... Other teams, better with gauging goaltender talent (and the rare opportunity before them) will be making the correct offers that determine Luongo's value... I think, one or two (whoever they are) will be making offers that even, eventually, convinces Gillis it is time to trade Luongo...

Burke? He's a passenger in this, IMO... An annoying backseat driver... He can open the car door and go tumbling onto the road at any time... He is just not important to Gillis driving this car...

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11-09-2012, 07:38 PM
  #318
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Not sure if people have seen this yet or not, but this is pure gold:

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Some people say 4 more years of Obama. I look at it more like 4 more years of disgruntled goalie politically charged Facebook rants! #I❤TT

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11-09-2012, 08:50 PM
  #319
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No, this is perfect. Kadri and Colborne are prime targets to be moved, and they're hurting their own value. Which makes them "cheaper" to acquire. A true buy low state.

I've been thinking about this and _if_ it came down to Bozak + Frattin or Colborne + Kadri, the former actually having NHL pedigree, I'd prefer Colborne + Kadri. Assume more risk in the deal for the chance of a greater upside.

Colborne steps into the 3C position right now, and Kadri can be on the RW, where Frattin would have been. It just makes too much sense for these two, more mature prospects, to be dealt IMO.
I agree that their values (particularly Kadri) aren't at their highest right now. But I don't think their value (market wise) would plummet exponentially over a 9 game sample size. I do think the true effect of their poor performance, thus far, is Gillis's interest to acquire them. I **really*** hope it doesn't make Bozak more valuable in his eyes. Ugh. Like you, I'd much prefer Kadri or Colborne.

At the end of the day, I'd prefer Gillis deals Luongo to a different team with assets better suited to Canucks needs. *Cough, Florida*

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11-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  #320
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I agree that their values (particularly Kadri) aren't at their highest right now. But I don't think their value (market wise) would plummet exponentially over a 9 game sample size. I do think the true effect of their poor performance, thus far, is Gillis's interest to acquire them. I **really*** hope it doesn't make Bozak more valuable in his eyes. Ugh. Like you, I'd much prefer Kadri or Colborne.

At the end of the day, I'd prefer Gillis deals Luongo to a different team with assets better suited to Canucks needs. *Cough, Florida*
The problem is the asset we are matketing isn't better suited to their needs.

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11-09-2012, 09:24 PM
  #321
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The problem is the asset we are matketing isn't better suited to their needs.

You mean Fla? I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has talked about goaltending not being their problem last yr. Then why would that small market/budget team even enter the Luongo sweepstakes when he comes with a $40+M contract? They obviously have concerns over their goaltending IMO, or believe he brings value to their org in other ways (ticket sales/marketing etc).

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11-09-2012, 09:39 PM
  #322
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You mean Fla? I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has talked about goaltending not being their problem last yr. Then why would that small market/budget team even enter the Luongo sweepstakes when he comes with a $40+M contract? They obviously have concerns over their goaltending IMO, or believe he brings value to their org in other ways (ticket sales/marketing etc).

FLA's on the fence IMO. They would first have to see what their goaltending looks like this year. Only then will their level of interest be clear.


They got good goaltending during the regular season last year, but then I can't see how they were too impressed by it in the playoffs.

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11-09-2012, 09:58 PM
  #323
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Actually, we know via rumour that EDM has made the best offer to date. They are also _not_ the mystery team. Which some speculated to be SJS.


We also know, from Lu's own mouth, that he has not exercised his NTC for _any_ team.


Again, if we go by rumour, the last deal Burke was rumoured to have offered, after Schenn was dealt, was Kulemin + Komisarek + 1st. Gillis rumoured to counter that with Gardiner + Frattin + Bozak + 1st (and some say even more). That's how far apart they are. Far enough that TO's need doesn't seem to be influencing their offers.


Lastly, this seems like a complete fabrication, but I did read a rumour that CLB wanted Luongo + Raymond for Nash, and Lu refused to waive his NTC in this case. But since we know now that Lu has never refused, this seems really out of left field. Anyways, make of that what you will.
Do you have any links to those? I'd never heard of those rumours before.

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11-09-2012, 10:03 PM
  #324
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I would take kadri is a heart beat, he clearly hates toronto.

This kid has very top end talent, but has some huge issues with charecter, and fitness.

I think there is something behind the scenes going on with this kid and toronto.

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11-09-2012, 10:25 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
You mean Fla? I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has talked about goaltending not being their problem last yr. Then why would that small market/budget team even enter the Luongo sweepstakes when he comes with a $40+M contract? They obviously have concerns over their goaltending IMO, or believe he brings value to their org in other ways (ticket sales/marketing etc).
It's clear to see those who "need" Luongo... But not as clear to see those who "want" Luongo... Given that many purchasing decisions are made without consciously weighing the pro's and con's in a balance sheet, I'd bet that there are more teams (potentially any team that doesn't have a top 5 goalie) then what most fans speculate who are in the market for Luongo...

Do people not buy things, expensive things, out of pure "want"? Why all the focus on strict, survival "need"?

Who wouldn't "want" a top 5 goaltender? Out of those teams who would "want" one, there only needs to really be one or two who "really wants" one to make substantial deals...

I am not concerned at all about there being a market for Luongo... IMO, it's a question of the best time to deal Luongo, given all the factors...

Luongo is going to Florida... If not Florida, some place that hasn't really been considered... That's my prediction...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 11-09-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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