HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Luongo Thread: Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For (Mod Warning in OP)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-11-2012, 05:41 AM
  #426
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,903
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 17 23 View Post
Not a liability defensively, more capable offensively than the normal 3rd or 4th line player. Can play the PK, still has the potential to be a solid source of secondary scoring. Raymond is not yet worth giving up on, and dumping.
Agreed, he's still a useful player, regardless of how well he 'fits' right now. You don't just dump him for nothing especially if you're not even strapped for cap space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
3 pieces.

You'll remember I've stated this since the summer.

Young contributing NHLer + top prospect + 1st round pick

Clearly a player like Rielly isn't available considering Burkie "had this player ranked 1st overall". I don't see any other players I'd consider top prospects - not Kadri, Colborne, Biggs, Ashton, Finn, Blacker, Percy....not one blue chipper IMO.

So with out a top prospect to move, instead of requesting a young contributing NHLer like Kulemin to go with Rielly and a 1st...the young contributing NHLer probably needs to have more potential than Kulemin - that guy is Gardiner.

Gardiner being untouchable further moves these clubs apart.

Now instead of not asking for a very good young NHLer and not being able to attain a top level prospect....it looks like Vancouver might lower their standards on the prospect ie. taking a Kadri (non-sure fire prospect with Robbie Schrempf written all over him) but instead Vancouver is looking for a big time impact NHLer - Phaneuf? Grabovski?

Can't move Grabovski though right? Best center, but not you're #1 - the guy Van might try at 3C - Bozak also seems untouchable because he's the only one who works with Kessel...so what about Lupul?

But he also has chemistry with Kessel.

What a tiresome debate and argument, IMO a trade will never happen between these clubs.

I in the eye has basically Set the record pretty straight on the topic. It's opinion based but one I share.
LL has been probably the most reasonable Leafs poster here. And even then the deal he agreed on still might not be met with agreement from many Canucks fans. It's why I also think a deal won't get done between VAN and TOR, if the two sides are that far apart. The 1st has the best chance of yielding a good NHL'er in return, but even that is not a guarantee.

vanuck is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 06:13 AM
  #427
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
3 pieces.

You'll remember I've stated this since the summer.

Young contributing NHLer + top prospect + 1st round pick

Clearly a player like Rielly isn't available considering Burkie "had this player ranked 1st overall". I don't see any other players I'd consider top prospects - not Kadri, Colborne, Biggs, Ashton, Finn, Blacker, Percy....not one blue chipper IMO.

So with out a top prospect to move, instead of requesting a young contributing NHLer like Kulemin to go with Rielly and a 1st...the young contributing NHLer probably needs to have more potential than Kulemin - that guy is Gardiner.

Gardiner being untouchable further moves these clubs apart.

Now instead of not asking for a very good young NHLer and not being able to attain a top level prospect....it looks like Vancouver might lower their standards on the prospect ie. taking a Kadri (non-sure fire prospect with Robbie Schrempf written all over him) but instead Vancouver is looking for a big time impact NHLer - Phaneuf? Grabovski?

Can't move Grabovski though right? Best center, but not you're #1 - the guy Van might try at 3C - Bozak also seems untouchable because he's the only one who works with Kessel...so what about Lupul?

But he also has chemistry with Kessel.

What a tiresome debate and argument, IMO a trade will never happen between these clubs.

I in the eye has basically Set the record pretty straight on the topic. It's opinion based but one I share.
This is your board so i didn't want to go down this road but, you are offering a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year deal to a limited market. Now the contract doesn't bother me as my team is cash rich, but, to say you want all that you listed is a little much. You say there is to much "risk" with my proposal...i say whover is bringing Luongo is taking a bigger long term risk. And coming from a Leafs fan...anytime you trade a 1st..it's a risk.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 06:19 AM
  #428
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
I am on my phone and can't edit but i'd like to add, you will notice in my other posts i have said i WOULD move Lupul....i WOULD move Bozak...the issue i have is that you want one of them plus our 1st plus...plus. If you are happy with Vankiller Whale's proposal of Lupul and Kadri...so be it.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 08:09 AM
  #429
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Great read, from Gillis today:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=645327



I'm down with both goalies! Please and thank you. A lot of games played in a short period of time, we're gonna need them.


Didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle.



Man, with the way Gillis consistently talks about retaining both Schneider and Luongo, there are going to be a lot of pissed of Canucks fans if he keeps Lu past the deadline (I'm not going to be one of them, but I know who will be). I'm pretty sure he will start the season with both though. That much seems clear.



Odds are he's going to really rely on Schroeder this upcoming season, if there is one.



D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra-Weise



Seems to be the way to go to at least start the season. Maybe Arnott gets brought in, but then again, they may just choose to run with Lapierre in that spot temporarily.

Bleach Clean is online now  
Old
11-11-2012, 08:26 AM
  #430
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle.



Man, with the way Gillis consistently talks about retaining both Schneider and Luongo, there are going to be a lot of pissed of Canucks fans if he keeps Lu past the deadline (I'm not going to be one of them, but I know who will be). I'm pretty sure he will start the season with both though. That much seems clear.



Odds are he's going to really rely on Schroeder this upcoming season, if there is one.



D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra-Weise



Seems to be the way to go to at least start the season. Maybe Arnott gets brought in, but then again, they may just choose to run with Lapierre in that spot temporarily.
I agree....i see both starting the year in Van. I think Gillis put the high price tag on to gauge interest. If some team was willing to come close...he would deal him.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 08:28 AM
  #431
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle.



Man, with the way Gillis consistently talks about retaining both Schneider and Luongo, there are going to be a lot of pissed of Canucks fans if he keeps Lu past the deadline (I'm not going to be one of them, but I know who will be). I'm pretty sure he will start the season with both though. That much seems clear.



Odds are he's going to really rely on Schroeder this upcoming season, if there is one.



D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra-Weise



Seems to be the way to go to at least start the season. Maybe Arnott gets brought in, but then again, they may just choose to run with Lapierre in that spot temporarily.
Yep its really starting to feel like thats the best bet.
Hang onto him unless an impact player or bluechipper is coming back

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 09:55 AM
  #432
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,807
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle.



Man, with the way Gillis consistently talks about retaining both Schneider and Luongo, there are going to be a lot of pissed of Canucks fans if he keeps Lu past the deadline (I'm not going to be one of them, but I know who will be). I'm pretty sure he will start the season with both though. That much seems clear.



Odds are he's going to really rely on Schroeder this upcoming season, if there is one.



D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra-Weise



Seems to be the way to go to at least start the season. Maybe Arnott gets brought in, but then again, they may just choose to run with Lapierre in that spot temporarily.
I'd rather see Burrows and Kassian switched, so we're not relying on a rookie 2nd line, but otherwise, yeah, makes sense.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 10:02 AM
  #433
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 1785
For all the talk of advanced stats and how terrible Bozak is somehow Lupul gets a pass? Lupul may be the worst defensive player in a top 6 role in the league.

You think Booth gets benched? Lupul won't even see the ice in a tie game.

kthsn is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 10:50 AM
  #434
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
For all the talk of advanced stats and how terrible Bozak is somehow Lupul gets a pass? Lupul may be the worst defensive player in a top 6 role in the league.

You think Booth gets benched? Lupul won't even see the ice in a tie game.
Yeah ive not been sold on Lupul all along, despite him being pretty much the most high-end piece that has been offered by some Leaf fans (most not.). He's definitely a buy-high, with history of injuries, and an impending UFA. Its so tough w the Leafs.... I can understand their situation all too well ... Trying to get on track, dont have the luxory of too many A pieces to give....

I really think JVR is the guy to target.

Would love to see something like

Luongo, Raymond
For
JVR, Frattin

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 10:55 AM
  #435
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
This is your board so i didn't want to go down this road but, you are offering a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year deal to a limited market. Now the contract doesn't bother me as my team is cash rich, but, to say you want all that you listed is a little much. You say there is to much "risk" with my proposal...i say whover is bringing Luongo is taking a bigger long term risk. And coming from a Leafs fan...anytime you trade a 1st..it's a risk.
Yeah so risky to take by far the best player.

I think the bigger risk is to roll with Reimer (don't want to get into it...not a fan) and 'goal allowed from center off a faceoff' Scrivens.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:01 AM
  #436
Nick the Viking
Registered User
 
Nick the Viking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Republic of Colwood
Country: Canada
Posts: 420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Yeah ive not been sold on Lupul all along, despite him being pretty much the most high-end piece that has been offered by some Leaf fans (most not.). He's definitely a buy-high, with history of injuries, and an impending UFA. Its so tough w the Leafs.... I can understand their situation all too well ... Trying to get on track, dont have the luxory of too many A pieces to give....

I really think JVR is the guy to target.

Would love to see something like

Luongo, Raymond
For
JVR, Frattin

I'd be good with that (better with Finn over Frattin but still, it's solid), I have just got the impression there's no way TO moves JVR after just acquiring him.

I don't know if Burke has said something publicly but Leafs fans around here at least have been not in favor of it.

Value wise, it makes sense, especially after Schenn was offered for Lu and then traded for JVR instead...

Nick the Viking is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:09 AM
  #437
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Boy View Post
I'd be good with that (better with Finn over Frattin but still, it's solid), I have just got the impression there's no way TO moves JVR after just acquiring him.

I don't know if Burke has said something publicly but Leafs fans around here at least have been not in favor of it.

Value wise, it makes sense, especially after Schenn was offered for Lu and then traded for JVR instead...
If the management believes JVR has a shot to play center...he won't be moved.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:15 AM
  #438
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Yeah so risky to take by far the best player.

I think the bigger risk is to roll with Reimer (don't want to get into it...not a fan) and 'goal allowed from center off a faceoff' Scrivens.
Actually...the only risk involved with rolling with what we have is drafting high again. It would be riskier to pay what some are saying we should and miss the playoffs again. I understand folks pointing out the flaws in Leafs players....but can you not see the flaw in dealing a premium package for a 33 year old goalie on a long deal? If Luongo wete 27 and on a 5 year deal these prices would be understandable.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:19 AM
  #439
ItsAllPartOfThePlan
Registered User
 
ItsAllPartOfThePlan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,045
vCash: 500
Keep him. The market is setting up perfectly for a maximum return IMO. A short schedule and a bad start sure to poor goaltending spell no playoffs. A team will overpay.

ItsAllPartOfThePlan is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:30 AM
  #440
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Actually...the only risk involved with rolling with what we have is drafting high again. It would be riskier to pay what some are saying we should and miss the playoffs again. I understand folks pointing out the flaws in Leafs players....but can you not see the flaw in dealing a premium package for a 33 year old goalie on a long deal? If Luongo wete 27 and on a 5 year deal these prices would be understandable.
Again. You just offered almost 5 a year on a multi to 40 year old Brodeur.

33 is not 53. Seems many people on HF feel it is.

If luongo was 27 and locked into that sweetheart cap hit at 5 you'd be giving up a lot more than Lupul (one good year) + Kadri (top six or bust/Robbie Schrempf) and a1st.

You talk of moving 1st's as risky...Kadri was a 7th overall who many feel has gone the way of Filatov, and you just traded your 'future captain' you traded up to 5th to get 5 drafts ago.

Quite clearly it's not as risky as you're trying to make it sound. Especially if you're getting a goalie who will fortify your whole team as opposed to moving 1st's for one dimensional scorers.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:35 AM
  #441
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,131
vCash: 500
I'm going to bow out of the luongo to leafs talk. Seems counter productive.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #442
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
For all the talk of advanced stats and how terrible Bozak is somehow Lupul gets a pass? Lupul may be the worst defensive player in a top 6 role in the league.

You think Booth gets benched? Lupul won't even see the ice in a tie game.
It's Bozak's fault, apparantely.

Scurr is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #443
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Bozak's stats suggest he is replacement level _period_. It doesn't matter where he plays.
Have you watched him play much?

Scurr is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:44 AM
  #444
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Actually...the only risk involved with rolling with what we have is drafting high again. It would be riskier to pay what some are saying we should and miss the playoffs again. I understand folks pointing out the flaws in Leafs players....but can you not see the flaw in dealing a premium package for a 33 year old goalie on a long deal? If Luongo wete 27 and on a 5 year deal these prices would be understandable.
That's the least of the Leafs worries.

If Toronto misses the playoffs again will Joffrey Lupul want to stick around and be part of the future? I can't imagine there's anything less enjoyable than playing in a hockey mad market when the team is losing...

Lupul is the only front line talent Kessel has to work with and he's the only guy Kessel has found excellent chemistry with. If Lupul walks as a UFA you would have to think Kessel would follow one year later.

The Leafs NEED to make the playoffs next season or the bottom could really fall out of that organization. Luongo very well could help stop that from happening.

Burke just isn't in a position to gamble on his poor goaltending duo and Mike Gillis knows it. Hence the asking price.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #445
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 1785
I don't feel it's fair for Canucks fans to say that Lupul won't re-up with the Leafs if they don't acquire a goalie. IMO it holds as much merit as Luongo causing a locker room cancer.

Lupul finally has an elite player he meshes with, is allowed to play without defensive responsibility and Leafs can pay him whatever $ amount he wants. I also think Lupul's ego loves the fanbase in TO/attention.

I'm betting Burke gets a deal done for Lupul but ends up paying FA prices (5.5M+) much like he did with Grabovski.

kthsn is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 11:59 AM
  #446
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I don't feel it's fair for Canucks fans to say that Lupul won't re-up with the Leafs if they don't acquire a goalie. IMO it holds as much merit as Luongo causing a locker room cancer.

Lupul finally has an elite player he meshes with, is allowed to play without defensive responsibility and Leafs can pay him whatever $ amount he wants. I also think Lupul's ego loves the fanbase in TO/attention.

I'm betting Burke gets a deal done for Lupul but ends up paying FA prices (5.5M+) much like he did with Grabovski.
He used to play with no defensive responsibility. Then Burke hired a strict, defensive minded coach that isn't a big fan of Lupul's game...

Players like to play in a winning environment.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #447
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Again. You just offered almost 5 a year on a multi to 40 year old Brodeur.

33 is not 53. Seems many people on HF feel it is.

If luongo was 27 and locked into that sweetheart cap hit at 5 you'd be giving up a lot more than Lupul (one good year) + Kadri (top six or bust/Robbie Schrempf) and a1st.

You talk of moving 1st's as risky...Kadri was a 7th overall who many feel has gone the way of Filatov, and you just traded your 'future captain' you traded up to 5th to get 5 drafts ago.

Quite clearly it's not as risky as you're trying to make it sound. Especially if you're getting a goalie who will fortify your whole team as opposed to moving 1st's for one dimensional scorers.
Brodeur was offered 2years...i guess that qualifies as multi. And we also traded Seguin and Hamilton...as well as Niedermeyer, and even Luongo in the past.(all TO picks). So it can work both ways.

I guess it's time for me to bow out as well.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 12:32 PM
  #448
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
He used to play with no defensive responsibility. Then Burke hired a strict, defensive minded coach that isn't a big fan of Lupul's game...

Players like to play in a winning environment.
Lupul actually played well under Carlyle albeit in a very small sample size. He was even blocking shots.

I think Lupul really likes being seen as a go to guy on the Leafs.

For the most part players like to win but money talks. If Burke can make a pitch that emphasizes the Leafs are trending upwards (hell they can't get any worse) then Lupul can see himself as a "saviour" of that team. Parise and Suter bought into the Wild's future and they were a lottery team too.

kthsn is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 12:43 PM
  #449
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,807
vCash: 5555
Selling high on Lupul does seem like a Burke-type move. Even if he would end up as a 55-60 point player on the Canucks playing a slightly better defensive game, he would still make the most sense for us. Lupul + Kadri/protected 1st would make sense, imo.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-11-2012, 12:53 PM
  #450
Outside99*
Sedins off Kas
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,347
vCash: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Great read, from Gillis today:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=645327



I'm down with both goalies! Please and thank you. A lot of games played in a short period of time, we're gonna need them.
Every time I hear that phrase independent/impartial/arms-length committee, I think of the Duke brothers in Trading Places: "We are the committee!!"

Outside99* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.