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Luongo Thread: Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
11-12-2012, 11:09 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I don't disregard the rumour altogether. However, I do question it's contents. Gardiner and a 1st make absolute sense to target. Frattin, despite not establishing himself in the NHL, is the _type_ of player I could see Gillis target. Even Bozak, who I'm not really a fan of, makes sense as a 3C option.


That's the thing about that rumour. The pieces, not their quality, just make logical sense. It's why it's difficult to ignore.


Anyways, I hope it's much ado about nothing.
I'd rather have Schroeder there than Bozak.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:03 PM
  #502
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Hell, you can talk about ****** pro scouting, but Gillis has gone out and consistently acquired good corsi players (including Ballard). Bozak would, I belive, be the first to go against that.
What about players that have been good corsi players but have fallen off? Phaneuf used to be really good until recently, what does that mean? Is he a worse player now?

What about someone like Tim Connolly? He had one really good Corsi season but has been pretty bad the last two. What does that say about him? Is he useless? Fluke?

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11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
  #503
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I think Kadri or Bozak, Kulemin and 1st is fair, though reasonable Leaf fans think its a bit much.

the fact that the market is poor is weighed in ...but I too am happy hanging onto him for now.
trading an elite goalie for prospect who cannot help us right now? why? we need players that can contribute now, i doubt Bozak can even be our third line center.

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11-12-2012, 05:51 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Could care less where a prospect is drafted. It only matters on draft day - 4 years later it means jack ****.

Squandering a season with $10 million invested in goalies? Don't see an issue....where else are you going to spend it? Cap space is useless if you have nothing to spend it on.

....feel like a broken record...

The 1st is the most valuable piece, but you used the word yourself it "probably" be an excellent prospect- how probable?

No matter the draft the probability of your 1st round pick after the top 5 becoming an impact star is very low...so you trade a star for two meddling prospects and a 1st....I don't, we either need a 'now' piece or an absolute blue chipper - ie Gudbranson, Rielly, Gardiner types
Canucks desperately need a second line winger (more than a 5.5m backup goalie). Besides, if Lu is still around for another season, doesn't that tell you that he isn't in very big demand?

Research indicates that 63% of 1st rounders turn into career players in the NHL. The 2nd round drops to 25% and the 3rd is 12%. Chances are, all three of Colbourne, Kadri and TO's 2013 1st will be decent to good players. Kadri has had just as much success in the NHL as Kassian and Colbourn is a tad behind him. The K's were in the same draft and Colbourn the year before.

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11-12-2012, 06:19 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What about players that have been good corsi players but have fallen off? Phaneuf used to be really good until recently, what does that mean? Is he a worse player now?
Phaneuf is a pretty bad example, he finished Top 5 in Corsi on the Leafs while playing by far the toughest minutes. Connolly has had a lot of injuries and has regressed quite a bit.

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11-12-2012, 06:48 PM
  #506
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i say noooo trade with the Leafs,is a dam good one to make!Go find your goalie elsewhere.

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11-12-2012, 07:10 PM
  #507
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i say noooo trade with the Leafs,is a dam good one to make!Go find your goalie elsewhere.
It's getting to that point with me as well. If Gardiner and/or their first isn't involved than it's pointless. Wait for a team to get desperate.

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11-12-2012, 07:33 PM
  #508
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It's getting to that point with me as well. If Gardiner and/or their first isn't involved than it's pointless. Wait for a team to get desperate.
I'd do something around Luongo for Reilly as well.

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11-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #509
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It's getting to that point with me as well. If Gardiner and/or their first isn't involved than it's pointless. Wait for a team to get desperate.
i would rather wait for another team also.

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11-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
Canucks desperately need a second line winger (more than a 5.5m backup goalie). Besides, if Lu is still around for another season, doesn't that tell you that he isn't in very big demand?

Research indicates that 63% of 1st rounders turn into career players in the NHL. The 2nd round drops to 25% and the 3rd is 12%. Chances are, all three of Colbourne, Kadri and TO's 2013 1st will be decent to good players. Kadri has had just as much success in the NHL as Kassian and Colbourn is a tad behind him. The K's were in the same draft and Colbourn the year before.
Problem with that math is you are assuming that an older project has the same chance at a long NHL career as a prospect already in the NHL like Skinner or SMH or Couturier. Are the 33% that miss cent from the older ahl group of the ones burning it up in the NHL age 19.

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11-12-2012, 07:54 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
Canucks desperately need a second line winger (more than a 5.5m backup goalie). Besides, if Lu is still around for another season, doesn't that tell you that he isn't in very big demand?

Research indicates that 63% of 1st rounders turn into career players in the NHL. The 2nd round drops to 25% and the 3rd is 12%. Chances are, all three of Colbourne, Kadri and TO's 2013 1st will be decent to good players. Kadri has had just as much success in the NHL as Kassian and Colbourn is a tad behind him. The K's were in the same draft and Colbourn the year before.
Interested where you get your #'s.

Kassian isnt a primadonna soft one way forward. he's not in the show to put #'s up yet. I wouldn't compare him as a prospect to either Toronto guy.

Why is your whole post bold?

What are career NHLers? Career 4th liners? Journeymen bottom pair defensman?

What is the percentage of those 63% that become impact players (top 6 fwd/top 4 dman/starting goalie)? I'm guessing pretty low.

I'm not trading one of the most consistent star goalies of the last decade for a 63% chance (I think your numbers are out to lunch but I'll use them anyways) at a couple career players.

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11-12-2012, 08:46 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
Research indicates that 63% of 1st rounders turn into career players in the NHL. The 2nd round drops to 25% and the 3rd is 12%. Chances are, all three of Colbourne, Kadri and TO's 2013 1st will be decent to good players. Kadri has had just as much success in the NHL as Kassian and Colbourn is a tad behind him. The K's were in the same draft and Colbourn the year before.
I think you are in desperate need of some remedial statistics combined with some very basic logic.

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11-12-2012, 08:48 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by schism View Post
I'd do something around Luongo for Reilly as well.
not enough, luongo for rielly + gardiner at least, maybe a 1st too

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11-12-2012, 08:56 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
not enough, luongo for rielly + gardiner at least, maybe a 1st too
ahahah there is no way in hell Burke does that. Biggs maybe but not both of his D prizes.

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11-13-2012, 12:39 AM
  #515
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I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:03 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
Research indicates that 63% of 1st rounders turn into career players in the NHL.
What's missing from that statement is the bit about what kind of "career players".

Once you're out of the top 5 or so, you're talking about, on average, career third liners and lower.

 
Old
11-13-2012, 01:46 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Interested where you get your #'s.

Kassian isnt a primadonna soft one way forward. he's not in the show to put #'s up yet. I wouldn't compare him as a prospect to either Toronto guy.

Why is your whole post bold?

What are career NHLers? Career 4th liners? Journeymen bottom pair defensman?

What is the percentage of those 63% that become impact players (top 6 fwd/top 4 dman/starting goalie)? I'm guessing pretty low.

I'm not trading one of the most consistent star goalies of the last decade for a 63% chance (I think your numbers are out to lunch but I'll use them anyways) at a couple career players.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

Don't know why the print is bold.

Who's a primadona?

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:04 AM
  #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?
I think it's a very reasonable deal. One of the better ones for sure.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:07 AM
  #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?
Gillis should take this one and run. That would be an awesome trade. I would prefer JVR over Lupul.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:15 AM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?
As long as it's JVR, I'm good with it.

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11-13-2012, 02:33 AM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?
I take that and run if it's JVR and a 1st. I'd like it if the Top-10 has to get protected that the 4th round pick becomes a 2nd round pick (in addition to their next 1st round pick)

Lupul is UFA at the end of the year so if there's no season it's useless to acquire him.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:51 AM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
I posted this on the main board, decent reception so far:

to

Luongo
Raymond

to

JVR/Lupul
Franson
2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected)
2013 4th round pick

Thoughts?
Send it in!

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:20 AM
  #523
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Send it in!
This same proposal was made on the main board and i suggested removing Franson and Raymond...also only if it's Lupul, you guys would be able to talk first and get his agreement on a contract.

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:32 AM
  #524
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
This same proposal was made on the main board and i suggested removing Franson and Raymond...also only if it's Lupul, you guys would be able to talk first and get his agreement on a contract.
You know you want Raymond!

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11-13-2012, 11:04 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
You know you want Raymond!
LOL...if i only know ONE thing.....it's that i don't want Raymond. Just as you guys say you have enough "tweeners"...so do we. I'd rather leave Raymond out and put JVR in Lupul's spot...second line stays at Kuli/Grabo/Mac and give Frattin/Kadri or Brown the 3rd line wing spots.

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