I still did not see the point of getting prospects for a team that is supposed to be contending for a cup, a first round pick is not going to score in the playoff, lupul is a second line player who had a career year, and Lupul is the best player coming back? That's it? If that is all Burke is going to offer then no thanks we should be keeping him, when we trade away player with elite talent, we want elite talent back.
The only player the Leafs have that is better than Lupul is Kessel, and maybe Phaneuf. Getting a team's second-third best player(even if he's coming off a career year) makes a solid base for a trade, especially considering Luongo's age.
Getting a team's second-third best player(even if he's coming off a career year) makes a solid base for a trade, especially considering Luongo's age.
Not regarding who the team is or the players involved but If the team is poor and has mediocre players it really doesn't matter if you're getting their 2nd and 3rd best players if those players would be your teams 9th and 10th best player.
That isn't how GM's base trades or at the very least that isn't how I'd do it if I was a GM.
The only player the Leafs have that is better than Lupul is Kessel, and maybe Phaneuf. Getting a team's second-third best player(even if he's coming off a career year) makes a solid base for a trade, especially considering Luongo's age.
Quite honestly, because he plays with Kessel. That and TO's defensive numbers are negatively skewed by Ron Wilson's "to Hell with defense!!" approach to coaching. My honest opinion of Bozak...above average 3C...decent 2C fill in. I think his defense is fine, has a good eye for passing...not overly physical.
One thing gets me about that rumoured asking price from Gillis. The package was Frattin + Bozak + 1st + Gardiner. Now if Gillis moves off Gardiner, which he will, who does he replace him with to still get close to the value he wants. No one player is going to do it. Which means, he will have to change other parts of his request.
Then, he needs Gardiner's replacement to be a Dman. So that complicates things further. Frattin + Percy + Bozak + 1st isn't enough value on the high end. Nor is replacing Percy with Blacker/Holzer. Thus, something in the remaining two pieces of Bozak + Frattin has to change. But what? I said it would be Bozak for Colborne. Maybe that's enough value...
One thing gets me about that rumoured asking price from Gillis. The package was Frattin + Bozak + 1st + Gardiner. Now if Gillis moves off Gardiner, which he will, who does he replace him with to still get close to the value he wants. No one player is going to do it. Which means, he will have to change other parts of his request.
Then, he needs Gardiner's replacement to be a Dman. So that complicates things further. Frattin + Percy + Bozak + 1st isn't enough value on the high end. Nor is replacing Percy with Blacker/Holzer. Thus, something in the remaining two pieces of Bozak + Frattin has to change. But what? I said it would be Bozak for Colborne. Maybe that's enough value...
I think you're putting too much emphasis on that rumour. Why would Gillis specifically be targeting a left D? Most likely he asked for Gardiner because he has great upside and Gillis would be willing to ship out Ballard to make room for him. But if he backs of Gardiner it doesn't necessarily mean his next choice for value would be Percy/Finn/whoever to replace Gardiner.
Personally I'm hoping for Lupul+ as a base, or worst case scenario Kulemin++(the pluses being conditional 1sts and Kadri) which solves a bigger need for us at the moment.
I can't believe Luongo trades are still being so heavily discussed. And why is Toronto 99% of the conversation. Anybody they have that we would actually want or be useful to us is off the table. We just aren't compatible trading partners.
I think you're putting too much emphasis on that rumour. Why would Gillis specifically be targeting a left D? Most likely he asked for Gardiner because he has great upside and Gillis would be willing to ship out Ballard to make room for him. But if he backs of Gardiner it doesn't necessarily mean his next choice for value would be Percy/Finn/whoever to replace Gardiner.
Perhaps you are right. Although I will say that the rumour is perhaps the best bit of insight we have, it's not definitive by any means.
That's why I choose to work off the logic behind it.
The structure suggests a C,W and D, so I naturally went with another D to replace Gardiner.
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Personally I'm hoping for Lupul+ as a base, or worst case scenario Kulemin++(the pluses being conditional 1sts and Kadri) which solves a bigger need for us at the moment.
I don't want Lupul as the base. Mostly because I think he works best as a LWer, and we have plenty of those.
Futile trying to appease every fan LL, on both sides of the fence.
I'm actually a fan that advocates getting prospects, and am not concerned so much with immediate scoring help from TO...Depends on who you talk to I guess...
I'd prefer to see prospects as well, those who can step in relatively soon.
I believe you advocated for Shore + Petrovic from FLA (I could be wrong), do you see either stepping into the Canucks lineup in the either this season or next? I think both have potential, size, and fill 2 of the Nucks biggest needs IMO. That proposal leaves their top propects/roster players (Huber/Gudbran/Bjugs) off the table, wonder if Tallon would do it.
Perhaps you are right. Although I will say that the rumour is perhaps the best bit of insight we have, it's not definitive by any means.
That's why I choose to work off the logic behind it.
The structure suggests a C,W and D, so I naturally went with another D to replace Gardiner.
That's fair, and it's possible, even likely a deal includes a defenseman, but there's no need to kill yourself trying to fit one in somehow. I don't think adding a Dman is a priority at this point.
Not to mention ifwe try to go after 4 different pieces, it reduces the individual quality that we get, whereas I'd rather focus on 2-3 pieces of higher quality.
Ex. Lupul + cond 1st or Kulemin + Kadri + cond 1st
over
Frattin, Percy, Colborne, cond 1st
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I don't want Lupul as the base. Mostly because I think he works best as a LWer, and we have plenty of those.
Now, this may be speculation on my part, but Kesler's best seasons have all been while playing with a natural right-shooting player(Sundin and Samuelsson). Lupul is a natural RW, and I think he'd be a good fit as the playmaker on our 2nd line.
Now it may be my turn to be reading too much into it, but who knows?
I can't believe Luongo trades are still being so heavily discussed. And why is Toronto 99% of the conversation. Anybody they have that we would actually want or be useful to us is off the table. We just aren't compatible trading partners.
Basically, because they have an obvious need. That and Burke has shown interest, so we know there is something there. Not trolling, but i'm not sure there is a compatible partner for the Nucks. The value expected is far to much for any the obvious teams (FLA/TO) to give up. That's not speaking to value, just the fact that those teams don't have the expendable pieces Van wants.
It looks like TO doesn't have the players that Van would want to improve their team. So why not start looking at TO players that could be traded to other teams in exchange for better options? It is obvious that Van is looking to upgrade 2nd line rw and 3rd line c. Perhaps the TO players + could be packaged into a trade that could get the returns Van wants.
Who saw my boy Matt Frattin with a couple nice goals last night?
One shot scorer that goes to the net. 26 goals in 34 career AHL games including playoffs. RW. Physical. Too bad he's NHL ready and not a 20 year old prospect or people might actually want to see this guy in our lineup.
Now, this may be speculation on my part, but Kesler's best seasons have all been while playing with a natural right-shooting player(Sundin and Samuelsson). Lupul is a natural RW, and I think he'd be a good fit as the playmaker on our 2nd line.
Now it may be my turn to be reading too much into it, but who knows?
No, he's not. Lupul is right handed, but he's a left winger.
One shot scorer that goes to the net. 26 goals in 34 career AHL games including playoffs. RW. Physical. Too bad he's NHL ready and not a 20 year old prospect or people might actually want to see this guy in our lineup.
Just can't look past that AHL production, even if he's done it as a 24-25 year old.
Frattin with Lapierre and Kassian on the 4th line sounds good to me. Size and some offense - something the 4th line hasn't had in as long as I can remember.
I know he played LW with Kessel due to chemistry, but I thought before that he usually played RW?
He's a left winger. Part of his problems in Anaheim stemmed from Carlyle refusing to let him play his off wing.
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean
On Frattin: Comes off injury, scores 2 goals, the price just went up.
What's above replacement level?
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel
Just can't look past that AHL production, even if he's done it as a 24-25 year old.
Frattin with Lapierre and Kassian on the 4th line sounds good to me. Size and some offense - something the 4th line hasn't had in as long as I can remember.
Kassian and Frattin both have the potential to do much more than that this season.
