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Otts vs Pitts

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Old
11-07-2012, 06:46 PM
  #26
pcamp
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
What position does Moen play?
Moen is more valuable then Despres. Plus he just signed a NTC contract so he won't be moved. I thought the OP wanted prospects and we have Kristo,Gallagher,Collberg,Leblanc at right wing.

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11-07-2012, 07:07 PM
  #27
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Sens wouldn't touch that.
No problem. The Pens really have no reason to trade a prospect like Maatta for anything less.

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11-07-2012, 07:11 PM
  #28
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No problem. The Pens really have no reason to trade a prospect like Maatta for anything less.
FWIW I'd consider that deal. Would have to be midseason though, I wouldnt do it obviously if Silf is having great success in the NHL.

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11-07-2012, 07:20 PM
  #29
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I don't think Pittsburgh would want any of those wingers until they actually become NHLers. Penguins can't develop forwards for squat.

maybe in a couple years.

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11-07-2012, 07:22 PM
  #30
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Fanbases overvalue their own players: there's little debate about this.

But when it comes to prospects, BOY, do fanbases ever overvalue their prospects.

That's why I find this type of trade (ie. prospect for prospect) is always doomed to fail, because fans of opposite teams just can't see eye to eye on the value of the players.

As for the premise of the OP, it makes sense that there would be something there, but that's about as much as I can contribute to this thread.

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Old
11-07-2012, 07:23 PM
  #31
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Youre right. And I dont see them trading Despres soon since he is the only one who is NHL ready.

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11-07-2012, 07:25 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Fanbases overvalue their own players: there's little debate about this.

But when it comes to prospects, BOY, do fanbases ever overvalue their prospects.

That's why I find this type of trade (ie. prospect for prospect) is always doomed to fail, because fans of opposite teams just can't see eye to eye on the value of the players.

As for the premise of the OP, it makes sense that there would be something there, but that's about as much as I can contribute to this thread.
Not only that, but they undervalue everyone else's on account of having never seen them play.

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Old
11-07-2012, 07:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Except you weren't you were grossly exaggerating and adding nothing. I did contribute to the thread by explaining how I, and many Sens fans, value Stone. There's a reason Sens fans have a terrible reputation around here and a lot of it is because of the immature defensiveness that seems to immediately come up in every single thread... just because a lot of our guys are underrated doesn't mean we need to be rude about it.
I wasn't grossly exaggerating. If we are trading Stone (very good prospect, played on national junior team last year) and what is likely at least a mid first in the deepest draft in years, for a D prospect, I'd expect that that prospect is a blue-chipper, something roughly midway between the value of a Gormley and a Seth Jones. Anything less, and I happily keep both assets.

Despres is not that level of prospect.

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11-07-2012, 07:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
I wasn't grossly exaggerating. If we are trading Stone (very good prospect, played on national junior team last year) and what is likely at least a mid first in the deepest draft in years, for a D prospect, I'd expect that that prospect is a blue-chipper, something roughly midway between the value of a Gormley and a Seth Jones. Anything less, and I happily keep both assets.

Despres is not that level of prospect.
I know Im not going to change your mind, but Stone is hardly an elite level prospect. He has a good shot and great net-front presence, but several other flaws such as poor skating. Gormley is easily worth him and a 1st.

As a neutral party, would there be any interest around a Noesen for Maatta deal? Both are mid-late 1st round picks, one projects as a power-forward with scoring upside (which fits Pittsburgh's style) and one projects as a excellent skating, two-way defenseman (which fits Ottawa's up-tempo style)

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Old
11-08-2012, 02:46 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Youre right. And I dont see them trading Despres soon since he is the only one who is NHL ready.
Wrong. Joe Morrow is also arguably NHL ready as well.

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11-08-2012, 06:56 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
I know Im not going to change your mind, but Stone is hardly an elite level prospect. He has a good shot and great net-front presence, but several other flaws such as poor skating. Gormley is easily worth him and a 1st.

As a neutral party, would there be any interest around a Noesen for Maatta deal? Both are mid-late 1st round picks, one projects as a power-forward with scoring upside (which fits Pittsburgh's style) and one projects as a excellent skating, two-way defenseman (which fits Ottawa's up-tempo style)
No thanks from Ottawa. I like Maatta, and would love him in our system, but Noesen's upside and development thus far is too good to give up.

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11-08-2012, 07:00 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Wrong. Joe Morrow is also arguably NHL ready as well.
Not to mention Robert Bortuzzo (6 GP) and Brian Strait (9 GP) saw action last season. The Pens D is an issue. And the last thing they should be doing is trading guys that can step in and help.

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Old
11-08-2012, 07:54 AM
  #38
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I actually think there's great potential for a deal here.

But both fanbases (for the most part) will greatly overvalue their own players and undervalue the opposing teams players and bicker back and forth.

Gotta try and realize the value you're getting back for that prospect you love so much.

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Old
11-08-2012, 11:51 AM
  #39
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From a neutral party, Stone for Maataa seems decent.

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Old
11-08-2012, 01:00 PM
  #40
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I'd rather each team play it safe and hang onto their own prospects than risk a possible future bust for future star deal.

The Pens aren't the greatest at developing their own wingers, but they have discovered a great way of getting top line wingers, and that is by trading away these young puck moving defensemen.

Whitney for Kunitz & Tangradi
Goligoski for Neal & Niskanen

With the excess of up and coming D-men they have, expect to see a few of them moved for similar deals within the next 3-4 years.

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Old
11-08-2012, 02:15 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilfverFoppaBerg View Post
Ottawa: Need for D right now and for the future, I think we need one more top 4 guy to play with Ceci down the road while Cowen - Karlsson are on the first pairing.

Pittsburgh: In need of wingers on both sides to play with either Sid or Geno down the road.

I think theres a deal to be made eventually.

Sens winger prospects: Noesen, Puemple, Prince, Stone, Petersson, Silfverberg, Hoffman, Dziurzynski.

Pitts D prospects: Pouliot, Morrow, Despres, Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin

Who can we match to make a deal? Feel free to use existing wingers on the current roster.
Honestly? Probably not. Most of those D are safe bets to be NHL contributors (Pouliot's a high risk/return coinflip, but Despres and Dumoulin are, at this point, mortal locks on a career as an NHL D).

Pretty much every winger you listed is a big fat question mark filed in the unlikely section to ever be a 25 goal scorer, which is what it's historically taken to get Pitt to move its blue chip D.


Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying Maata, for instance, is going to have a better career than Silfverberg. I'm saying Maata's got a much better chance of ending up on a first or second pairing somewhere than Silfverberg does as a consistent 30 goal-scorer. Players that fit that description are Pittsburgh's only long-term need at forward.


Last edited by billybudd: 11-08-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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Old
11-08-2012, 04:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Honestly? Probably not. Most of those D are safe bets to be NHL contributors (Pouliot's a high risk/return coinflip, but Despres and Dumoulin are, at this point, mortal locks on a career as an NHL D).

Pretty much every winger you listed is a big fat question mark filed in the unlikely section to ever be a 25 goal scorer, which is what it's historically taken to get Pitt to move its blue chip D.


Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying Maata, for instance, is going to have a better career than Silfverberg. I'm saying Maata's got a much better chance of ending up on a first or second pairing somewhere than Silfverberg does as a consistent 30 goal-scorer. Players that fit that description are Pittsburgh's only long-term need at forward.
Maybe you should clarify some more, because it looks like you're equating a F prospect having 25 goal potential to a D prospect just being good enough to make the NHL.

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:45 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
Maybe you should clarify some more, because it looks like you're equating a F prospect having 25 goal potential to a D prospect just being good enough to make the NHL.
Am I? Matt Carkner and Andy Sutton are the type of D prospects who are "just good enough to make the NHL." I don't recall equating Simon Despres or Bryan Dumoulin with guys like them. Maybe you can cite the section where I said that.

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11-09-2012, 08:27 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
Maybe you should clarify some more, because it looks like you're equating a F prospect having 25 goal potential to a D prospect just being good enough to make the NHL.
None of the Pittsburgh prospects mentioned fit that description.

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Old
11-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #45
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Looooooooooooooool, I've seen Despres play multiple times, he's nothing special. Very overrated. Maatta is better.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TheSilfverBullet View Post
Good one.
appreciate the positive feedback.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:13 PM
  #47
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Easy to say when its not your team. That's almost as bad as capitalsrock's completely one-sided proposal, and that's saying something.

I would do Schneider + 1st for Wiercioch.
You only think it's one sided because you're a fan of that side and i'm sure everyone thinks that their prospects are the best but truth is I don't think my proposal is that far off in terms of value. If someone who isn't a biased senators fan would like to give me a reason why the value isn't equal, than I might listen and take it into consideration.
Despres is NHL ready and going to be a great Dman and people are really undervaluing him and overvaluing stone.

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:53 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
You only think it's one sided because you're a fan of that side and i'm sure everyone thinks that their prospects are the best but truth is I don't think my proposal is that far off in terms of value. If someone who isn't a biased senators fan would like to give me a reason why the value isn't equal, than I might listen and take it into consideration.
Despres is NHL ready and going to be a great Dman and people are really undervaluing him and overvaluing stone.
So basically, you won't listen to anyone who is a Sens fan (and therefore knows more about our prospects than a fan of any other team would), because you assume that we are biased? Try making a proposal to any other fanbase to try and get one of their best prospects who is looking to be an absolute steal in the draft, in exchange for a prospect with nowhere near the same upside, and I'll bet you will get exactly the same response.

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Old
11-10-2012, 08:35 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
So basically, you won't listen to anyone who is a Sens fan (and therefore knows more about our prospects than a fan of any other team would), because you assume that we are biased? Try making a proposal to any other fanbase to try and get one of their best prospects who is looking to be an absolute steal in the draft, in exchange for a prospect with nowhere near the same upside, and I'll bet you will get exactly the same response.
Despres' upside is a huge, great-skating two-way top-pairing defenseman. What do you think Stone's upside is?

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11-10-2012, 08:58 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Despres' upside is a huge, great-skating two-way top-pairing defenseman. What do you think Stone's upside is?


no. Just no.

2nd pairing defensive d-man.

The guy has hardly any offensive potential.


Michalek and Stone for Despres is absolutely ridiculous. OMG.

35 goal winger + potential 1st line winger for potential 2nd pairing d-man. Mother of god.

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