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Pavel Bure's Number To Be Retired (Post # 31)

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:37 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey Rustie View Post
I have a question about the Bure banner/jersey that will get retired in the rafters.

Will the colour scheme be:
a) Black/Yellow/Red (skate jersey) that Bure spent the early part of his career wearing;
b) Black/Red/Blue/Silver (orca jersey) that Bure ended his career in Vancouver wearing; or
c) the current Canucks colour scheme of Blue/Green/White
This one. Linden, Smyl and Naslund's are all in this colour scheme now.

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11-09-2012, 12:52 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
There was NEVER any time that #16 even remotely registered on any 'best player' list.
Might be my Canucks blinders on but I thought he actually was one of the better players for Team Canada in the Nagano Olympics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
There was a time where Naslund was one of the top 5 players in the world.
Think it's like Elvis as alot of people think of the "Fat Elvis" rather than the earlier Sun Records Elvis period.

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11-09-2012, 12:59 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Well, I was responding to this post, which was specifically about the opinion of outsiders:
Oh yeah, well I had a few drinks last night.

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11-09-2012, 01:16 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
#16 deserves his number retired but #19 is a joke? this makes no sense at all. There was a time where Naslund was one of the top 5 players in the world. There was NEVER any time that #16 even remotely registered on any 'best player' list. He peaked as a teen/early 20's and was a role player for the rest of his career. Naslund helped bring the fans back and started the sellout streak we're still enjoying. I'd like to hear you justify any way that Linden was more important to the franchise (without talking about off ice events)
While I'd say "joke" is an overstatement, there certainly is something to the #19 discussion because it has become a common discussion. If it was just a few fringe crazies it may be worth ignoring.

Perhaps at some point people will accept that some of us have different criteria for retirement.

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11-09-2012, 01:21 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
#16 deserves his number retired but #19 is a joke? this makes no sense at all. There was a time where Naslund was one of the top 5 players in the world. There was NEVER any time that #16 even remotely registered on any 'best player' list. He peaked as a teen/early 20's and was a role player for the rest of his career. Naslund helped bring the fans back and started the sellout streak we're still enjoying. I'd like to hear you justify any way that Linden was more important to the franchise (without talking about off ice events)
He was way more clutch than Naslund perhaps (most game 7 playoff goals in Canucks history)? He scored 2 goals in Game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals 1994 with one leg? That's more than anyone has done in the playoffs as far as the Canucks are concerned....

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11-09-2012, 01:26 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
He was way more clutch than Naslund perhaps (most game 7 playoff goals in Canucks history)? He scored 2 goals in Game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals 1994 with one leg? That's more than anyone has done in the playoffs as far as the Canucks are concerned....
But, but, but Naslund was so good between October and March.

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11-09-2012, 01:34 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
#16 deserves his number retired but #19 is a joke? this makes no sense at all. There was a time where Naslund was one of the top 5 players in the world. There was NEVER any time that #16 even remotely registered on any 'best player' list. He peaked as a teen/early 20's and was a role player for the rest of his career. Naslund helped bring the fans back and started the sellout streak we're still enjoying. I'd like to hear you justify any way that Linden was more important to the franchise (without talking about off ice events)
Really? The only word needed to be said is playoffs. End of discussion.

Naslund's PPG average in the playoffs is equivalent to Linden's regular season numbers. Linden's PPG average in the playoffs is equivalent to Naslund's regular season ones. One of these two was a regular season star and the other elevated his game to that status when it mattered most.

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11-09-2012, 02:28 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Really? The only word needed to be said is playoffs. End of discussion.

Naslund's PPG average in the playoffs is equivalent to Linden's regular season numbers. Linden's PPG average in the playoffs is equivalent to Naslund's regular season ones. One of these two was a regular season star and the other elevated his game to that status when it mattered most.
you are referring mostly to the 94 playoff run. Yes I know Linden was PPG for a few playoffs, I remember, I watched them happen, did you? On that '94 team, Linden was the 3rd most important playoff performer, behind Bure and McLean.

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Old
11-09-2012, 02:36 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
On that '94 team, Linden was the 3rd most important playoff performer, behind Bure and McLean.
I'm not sure if you're contradicting yourself or are you really trying to imply that teams only need two players playing at their highest level to reach the finals. Either way, it's a stupid observation to make.

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11-09-2012, 03:17 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
This one. Linden, Smyl and Naslund's are all in this colour scheme now.
I kinda wish they'd use the colour schemes from the era they played in - the whole iconic imagery thing. I mean, isn't Linden always going to be associated with the black, red and yellow jerseys rather than the blue, green and while Orca ones?

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:19 PM
  #161
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11-09-2012, 03:55 PM
  #162
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If you look at Linden's career stats and take into account injuries it seems like a no brainer to me that injuries affected his longevity to perform at a high level long term.

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11-09-2012, 04:09 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
If you look at Linden's career stats and take into account injuries it seems like a no brainer to me that injuries affected his longevity to perform at a high level long term.
It's a little bit of a few things, from where I sit.

Linden himself made a good point about the change in the league over the course of the late 80s to when he retired. When he came in, there were "maybe a dozen guys over 6'4, 210lbs". When he left, there were maybe a dozen guys under. The change in the size and style of the game had an impact, as we also saw the dead puck era come into play. That is what I believe had the biggest influence on his offensive numbers.

Even then, however, his numbers were still at a pretty strong level for an older guy who was an "all situations" type that oozed character and was strong defensively. If you look at the numbers he was on pace to produce, a lot of teams would have been thrilled to have him as a tweener third-to-second line guy.

Starting with 1997-98, here's his numbers extrapolated over whole seasons;

97-98:
82GP, 21G, 26A, 47Pts

98-99:
*Actually played the full year
82GP, 18G, 29A, 47Pts

99-00:
82GP, 21G, 28A, 49Pts

00-01:
82GP, 18G, 26A, 44Pts

Basically, up until the lockout he was still a 40~ point, two-way player. Respectable numbers nonetheless. Even with his injuries, he still fairly consistently maintained that pace.

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11-09-2012, 04:16 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
If you look at Linden's career stats and take into account injuries it seems like a no brainer to me that injuries affected his longevity to perform at a high level long term.
Didn't help he had to play center a fair bit even though he was a winger because we had nobody better to take that spot.

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11-09-2012, 04:47 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
I'm not sure if you're contradicting yourself or are you really trying to imply that teams only need two players playing at their highest level to reach the finals. Either way, it's a stupid observation to make.
no, stupid is to say that Linden was a better player than Naslund. Naslund was elite, Linden was not.

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11-09-2012, 05:13 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
you are referring mostly to the 94 playoff run. Yes I know Linden was PPG for a few playoffs, I remember, I watched them happen, did you? On that '94 team, Linden was the 3rd most important playoff performer, behind Bure and McLean.

As long as you are aware your last line is an opinion and not in any way a fact, we are good.

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11-09-2012, 05:29 PM
  #167
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Linden was a general for us, a true leader both on and off the ice. That's not something you can say about Naslund, or anyone for that matter. No one has come close to having this big of an impact and love fest with the city of Vancouver as Linden has.

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11-09-2012, 05:39 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
you are referring mostly to the 94 playoff run. Yes I know Linden was PPG for a few playoffs, I remember, I watched them happen, did you? On that '94 team, Linden was the 3rd most important playoff performer, behind Bure and McLean.
Actually, I'm talking about their entire career average.

Linden
Regular season 867 in 1382 is .627 PPG
Post season 99 in 124 is .798 PPG

Naslund
Regular season 869 in 1117 is .778 PPG
Post season 36 in 52 is .692 PPG

Naslund had two extra years of development before entering the NHL and didn't play as many seasons as Linden either. He didn't peak as a teen either. He had 8 straight consist seasons to start his career. There is no doubt that statistically, Naslund's best years were top 5 in the league. I would still take Linden in his prime over Naslund in his any time. Linden did way more than just score and he always elevated his game in the post season.

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11-09-2012, 06:25 PM
  #169
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well now that you guys disagree with me on who was better, how about commenting on the effect on the franchise. the canucks were in a terrible attendance/profit situation, even in danger of losing the team, and the excitement of Naslund (+Bert)'s skill is what brought the fans back, and then the Luongo/Sedin generation kept it going.

If you cant agree that Naslund was the better player, you surely have to notice how he brought the fans & respectibility back to the franchise?

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11-09-2012, 06:25 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I kinda wish they'd use the colour schemes from the era they played in - the whole iconic imagery thing. I mean, isn't Linden always going to be associated with the black, red and yellow jerseys rather than the blue, green and while Orca ones?
Fortunately, he played his last season the year Vancouver debuted its current uniforms. The following image captures one of 2007-08's most iconic moments, which in my opinion makes Trevor's #16 banner very acceptable in the blue-green-white color scheme.



Of course, it would be terrific if it were in these colors though:



Pavel's number, in some sense, does look appropriate in the current color scheme (even more so if that April Fool's 2008 hoax were true!). I think Jeff Tambellini may have been a Bure fan in his youth. He also has a small 5'10'' frame, and can skate well. It was neat to see him wear #10 (that is, if my assumption above is correct). He also became the last Canuck to wear the number, making its retirement quite fitting and perhaps bringing it full circle.



I'm sure for many fans, any time someone resembles Bure in some fashion, they want it to be Pavel. Fans did this with Sergei Shirokov (although Shirokov had very low top speed) and other small players. Heck, Tom Larscheid dubbed Shirokov "The Pocket Russian Rocket" in a 2009-10 preseason match against the San Jose Sharks. Tambellini wearing #10 made apparent our interest in Bure even more so. Most fans are fascinated by Pavel Bure, and many would give anything to have another player like him play for Vancouver.

Pavel set the standard for great on-ice play in a Canucks uniform, and if anyone even remotely resembles him, they'll see the comparison immediately. For the longest time, people wanted Maxim Afinogenov and Marian Gaborik in Canucks uniforms for this very reason.

Back on topic, I don't have too much of a problem with Pavel's #10 banner being in the current Canucks colors.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 11-09-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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11-09-2012, 07:45 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
But, but, but Naslund was so good between October and March. the second last game of the regular season
fixed

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11-09-2012, 07:48 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Like I said, ultimately, it's going to be the result that everybody looks at. They may not have dazzled in the playoffs, but they both had MVP-type regular seasons, the team won the President's cup, and they helped get the team to the Stanley Cup finals. Whether you agree or not, they're going to be known best for that, along with their charitable activities.
Linden's "heart and soul" BS propaganda is how guys lie Y2k try and rationalize their hate for the Sedins and Euro players.

Their point totals were fairly close in their cup runs.

Linden had a massive G7 vs the Rangers while the Sedins did not. But there's no finals without G7 Bure or a save by McLean. Something we didn't get from Lu.

And lolling at retiring his number. Absolute crock of **** if his got retired. His lasting memory is of a guy always folding under pressure and saying the dumbest things when a mic is in front of him

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11-09-2012, 07:59 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Linden's "heart and soul" BS propaganda is how guys lie Y2k try and rationalize their hate for the Sedins and Euro players.

Their point totals were fairly close in their cup runs.

Linden had a massive G7 vs the Rangers while the Sedins did not. But there's no finals without G7 Bure or a save by McLean. Something we didn't get from Lu.

And lolling at retiring his number. Absolute crock of **** if his got retired. His lasting memory is of a guy always folding under pressure and saying the dumbest things when a mic is in front of him
what? did luongo not win three one-goal games, two of them shutouts, to get us to that game 7?

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11-09-2012, 08:00 PM
  #174
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what? did luongo not win three one-goal games, two of them shutouts, to get us to that game 7?
and he lost 4 by blowouts.... And now I'll go back on topic.

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11-09-2012, 10:11 PM
  #175
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Half this crap about clutch and heart and soul are just narrative. Hockey is a game of breaks and bounces and sometimes those things come together in a way that creates a pleasing story and sometimes it doesn't.

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