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v22: Chuckers gonna chuck

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:42 AM
  #901
Eyedea
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Originally Posted by JVR2112 View Post
I asked earlier if Lowry was worth the 4th overall pick and people agreed that he was.
So why even care where we end up? We just need to build and get rid of the dead weight.
This draft isn't even that strong. Aside from Zeller and Shabazz nobody seems like a great prospect.

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11-28-2012, 11:56 AM
  #902
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And I hate to say it, but Lowry reminds me of Mike James a little too much for my liking. Didn't like how he blew off Ross after he tried to apologize to him after a mistake. Needs to be a better leader than that.
I watched the game, but I missed this. I haven't seen Lowry do this before so hopefully it won't become a common thing. Wouldn't surprise me if Lowry was just frustrated with himself because he was performing poorly against his former team.

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11-28-2012, 12:35 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
This draft isn't even that strong. Aside from Zeller and Shabazz nobody seems like a great prospect.
Have to disagree there. Noel and Poythress are studs. I like Alex Len and McAdoo as well.

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11-28-2012, 12:43 PM
  #904
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Have to disagree there. Noel and Poythress are studs. I like Alex Len and McAdoo as well.
Agreed. Remember last year's draft was supposed to have 5 or 6 franchise players. It's too early in the year to say it's a weak draft.

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11-28-2012, 12:50 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Agreed. Remember last year's draft was supposed to have 5 or 6 franchise players. It's too early in the year to say it's a weak draft.
I don't think this years draft is as good as last year but if you're the Raptors and in all likelihood picking in the top 6 there's no excuse not to find a very good player that can help you.

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11-28-2012, 12:56 PM
  #906
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I don't think this years draft is as good as last year but if you're the Raptors and in all likelihood picking in the top 6 there's no excuse not to find a very good player that can help you.
If it's #1, 2, or 3, then OKC gets the pick. By all accounts, we either get Noel/Shabazz/Zeller, or we get nobody.

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11-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Have to disagree there. Noel and Poythress are studs. I like Alex Len and McAdoo as well.
None of them are all star or game changing talents.


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Agreed. Remember last year's draft was supposed to have 5 or 6 franchise players. It's too early in the year to say it's a weak draft.
Last years draft does have several franchise players. What has changed since then? I don't think anybody in this years draft would have cracked the top 3, and Shabazz likely would be the only one to crack the top 5 (replacing Waiters).

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11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
  #908
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If it's #1, 2, or 3, then OKC gets the pick. By all accounts, we either get Noel/Shabazz/Zeller, or we get nobody.
Damn that's right.

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11-28-2012, 01:26 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
None of them are all star or game changing talents.




Last years draft does have several franchise players. What has changed since then? I don't think anybody in this years draft would have cracked the top 3, and Shabazz likely would be the only one to crack the top 5 (replacing Waiters).
An All Star now? Probably not but Poythress and Noel can be those types. Noel is only 18 years old the guy is terrific defensively already definitely a game changer in the middle the Raptors need.

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11-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #910
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If it's #1, 2, or 3, then OKC gets the pick. By all accounts, we either get Noel/Shabazz/Zeller, or we get nobody.
Don't we get the pick if its 1, 2, or 3?
OKC gets it if its between 4-14.


Last edited by JVR2112: 11-28-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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11-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
None of them are all star or game changing talents.




Last years draft does have several franchise players. What has changed since then? I don't think anybody in this years draft would have cracked the top 3, and Shabazz likely would be the only one to crack the top 5 (replacing Waiters).
Davis is the only franchise player. Maybe MKG and Lillard have arguments, but those two are more secondary guys IMO.

I'd take Shabazz and Zeller over Waiters, Beal and Robinson. Len is also an interesting prospect, a legit 7 footer with athleticism but can shoot and score from the post.

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11-28-2012, 01:39 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Davis is the only franchise player. Maybe MKG and Lillard have arguments, but those two are more secondary guys IMO.

I'd take Shabazz and Zeller over Waiters, Beal and Robinson. Len is also an interesting prospect, a legit 7 footer with athleticism but can shoot and score from the post.
From what I've seen from Lillard in his first 15 games as a pro he has franchise PG written all over him.

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11-28-2012, 01:41 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
An All Star now? Probably not but Poythress and Noel can be those types. Noel is only 18 years old the guy is terrific defensively already definitely a game changer in the middle the Raptors need.
I've read his defence is Ben Wallace like. If he can add any type of offensive low post game he would definitely be a franchise changer.

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11-28-2012, 01:43 PM
  #914
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From what I've seen from Lillard in his first 15 games as a pro he has franchise PG written all over him.
He's a 4 year college player so I think that has a little to do with how easily he's jumped into the NBA. Still a great player but my definition of "Franchise Player" is maybe a little more strict than others.

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11-28-2012, 01:45 PM
  #915
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He's a 4 year college player so I think that has a little to do with how easily he's jumped into the NBA. Still a great player but my definition of "Franchise Player" is maybe a little more strict than others.
Regardless of how polished he is compared to other rookies, hes stepped right into the NBA and played like a All star point guard in his first 15 games. He has great athleticism, hes a amazing shooter, has a fantastic first step and good vision. I dont see anything in his skillset that will hold him back from being a amazing player in his prime.

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11-28-2012, 01:49 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Davis is the only franchise player. Maybe MKG and Lillard have arguments, but those two are more secondary guys IMO.

I'd take Shabazz and Zeller over Waiters, Beal and Robinson. Len is also an interesting prospect, a legit 7 footer with athleticism but can shoot and score from the post.
Beal has been struggling lately, but I'd take him over those guys. It doesn't help that he has to transition to the NBA with a bunch of washed up nobodies.

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11-28-2012, 02:08 PM
  #917
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I guess it's tough to describe the players without a firm definition on what a "franchise player" is. If you're being stringent and saying that franchise-talent means the Lebron's and Durant's and Kobe's of the league, then you'd probably find that majority of teams DON'T have this mystical "franchise player".

I'd say that every team DOES have at least one with only a few exceptions. Some even have multiple players that could be described as such. I see a franchise player as the best player on their team; one that the team's management expects to keep for 5+ years. For the Raps, our franchise player is Derozan and Valanciunas is making a case to be considered one too. In fact, the only teams I'd say don't have a clear franchise player are Orlando and Phoenix. Every other team has at least 1 or 2 guys to build around.

Quote:
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Don't we get the pick if its 1, 2, or 3?
OKC gets it is its between 4-14.
Oops yea, that's what I meant.

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11-28-2012, 02:12 PM
  #918
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Regardless of how polished he is compared to other rookies, hes stepped right into the NBA and played like a All star point guard in his first 15 games. He has great athleticism, hes a amazing shooter, has a fantastic first step and good vision. I dont see anything in his skillset that will hold him back from being a amazing player in his prime.
While I agree that he's going to be very good in his prime, it's hard to imagine him having the same success if was on a worse team like Toronto, Washington, etc. Portland (despite their record) has a rather solid starting rotation that was really only missing a point guard. I don't mean to take too much away from Lillard's early success, but he'd have a much tougher time if the defense didn't have to worry about Aldridge/Batum/Matthews

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11-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #919
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I guess it's tough to describe the players without a firm definition on what a "franchise player" is. If you're being stringent and saying that franchise-talent means the Lebron's and Durant's and Kobe's of the league, then you'd probably find that majority of teams DON'T have this mystical "franchise player".

I'd say that every team DOES have at least one with only a few exceptions. Some even have multiple players that could be described as such. I see a franchise player as the best player on their team; one that the team's management expects to keep for 5+ years. For the Raps, our franchise player is Derozan and Valanciunas is making a case to be considered one too. In fact, the only teams I'd say don't have a clear franchise player are Orlando and Phoenix. Every other team has at least 1 or 2 guys to build around.



Oops yea, that's what I meant.
That's the problem though, Derozan is a terrible Franchise player. Even Val isn't someone you build an entire team around, I see him as a great secondary piece to a Wiggins type player.

IMO Franchise guys are the guys you can build a contender around. Obviously Lebron/Durant/Kobe are those guys but it also includes guys like Howard, Rose, Rondo, Griffin, Love...

The reason we suck is because we look to guys like Bargnani or Derozan to be the franchise leaders when they wouldn't be that on any other team.

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11-28-2012, 02:19 PM
  #920
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The guy on The Score said the stupidest trade rumor.. Bargnani + Calderon for Pau. Lakers obviously don't do this. They have no need for Andrea and they don't need another PG..

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11-28-2012, 02:25 PM
  #921
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While I agree that he's going to be very good in his prime, it's hard to imagine him having the same success if was on a worse team like Toronto, Washington, etc. Portland (despite their record) has a rather solid starting rotation that was really only missing a point guard. I don't mean to take too much away from Lillard's early success, but he'd have a much tougher time if the defense didn't have to worry about Aldridge/Batum/Matthews
I understand what your saying but its not like opposing teams are doubling up on any of the players you mentioned and giving Lillard more space. Lillard is not only putting up crazy numbers for a rookie PG but he pass's the eye test bigtime as some of the plays he makes are jaw dropping.

On a different note NBA refs are jokes


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11-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #922
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The guy on The Score said the stupidest trade rumor.. Bargnani + Calderon for Pau. Lakers obviously don't do this. They have no need for Andrea and they don't need another PG..
Lakers actually have a MASSIVE need for some outside shooting so Bargnani actually provides them that.

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11-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #923
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This one is more of a joke. Remember the play with Andrea? Check this out


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11-28-2012, 02:28 PM
  #924
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Lakers actually have a MASSIVE need for some outside shooting so Bargnani actually provides them that.
Kobe, Nash, Artest can all get the job done. Including Jamison who can hit the odd three, as well as Steve Blake. Not sure why they need a soft big man.

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11-28-2012, 02:28 PM
  #925
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I understand what your saying but its not like opposing teams are doubling up on any of the players you mentioned and giving Lillard more space. Lillard is not only putting up crazy numbers for a rookie PG but he pass's the eye test bigtime as some of the plays he makes are jaw dropping.

On a different note NBA refs are jokes

Even though that was clearly a charge, Artest got a break later on and wasn't able to knock down the free throws.

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