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v22: Chuckers gonna chuck

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Old
11-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
I'll take a realistic approach and say that once Lowry comes back and the Raps' schedule eases up in the second half, Toronto will NOT finish in the top-3 and therefore we're going to forfeit our top pick to OKC (via Houston). It's not pleasant for the draft, but when Lowry is playing this team is probably better than a handful of other NBA teams. There are a number of teams that are worse in the East (or could be worse if given a key injury): Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, NOLA, Orlando, Charlotte. There are teams in the West that will probably go to town on the East, but are going to really struggle within their conference: Phoenix, Houston, Sacramento.

All-in-all, unless you are considering trading all of Lowry+Derozan+Johnson+Bargnani+Calderon away for scrap pieces and picks, the Raps aren't likely to be making a pick in the first round of the draft this year. Otherwise we'll probably not be in the top-3 and therefore OKC will have our pick.
I'd keep 4 out of the 5. Bargnani needs to go, sick of his act. Hasn't learned a single thing about defence and rebounding since he was drafted. For a 7 footer he sure plays small.

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11-12-2012, 10:15 AM
  #177
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The year to fall flat on our face to get a #1 pick should be 2014. Getting Wiggins does more than just give us a superstar player, it gives the organization a Canadian superstar as the face of the franchise. It would do wonders for the fan base across Canada, the team as a whole, and the organization who would have a legit superstar since Vince Carter

If I'm Colangelo I take my hits this year and next. This franchise is going nowhere with guys like Bargnani IMO. We have some nice pieces but as the story is year after year we don't have any superstars on our team. I would do anything to get Wiggins.
If you were the GM of this multimillion dollar franchise you would throw the next 2 seasons worth of play in order to have a chance to land a kid who is currently 16?

There's no guarantee Wiggins is a superstar. That said, if obtaining wiggins was to be the raptors main priority, the best way to get him would be to play well the next two seasons, and then sell the farm in a trade for the first overall pick.

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11-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #178
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Man, the tone on here has turned around from a couple weeks ago.

Let's just take a little refresher:

Opening night, they lose on a 50-50 ball and some bad calls. Yes, you can say they should have played better so it didn't come down to that 50-50 ball and some bad calls, but that's what happened.

Since then, yeah, it'd be nice if they could have pulled in a W against philly, but did anyone really expect them to win any of those games?

Even with a healthy lowry they would have been underdogs.


I am not saying that they will suddenly turn things around and be world-beaters, but this is a team with a lot of fresh faces getting a lot of court time. They have a rookie starting centre, and they've played tough competition to start the year, including a west coast road trip which always sucks. Just give them a month before you start calling for heads. That's all.
I thought they would have beaten an Indiana team without all star Danny Granger. That Philly team isn't that good especially without Andrew Bynum.

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11-12-2012, 11:11 AM
  #179
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Even without JRich + Bynum Philly is a very resilient team. They can still hit their shots efficiently, and have great overall defence.

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11-12-2012, 12:28 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I thought they would have beaten an Indiana team without all star Danny Granger. That Philly team isn't that good especially without Andrew Bynum.
Well Indiana is still a really good team with out Granger so I knew it wouldn't be an easy game for the Raps.

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11-12-2012, 12:36 PM
  #181
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Just my opinion but its time to deal Bargs. He is just a soft Euro that cannot play D. We need a baller to be the PF and be a beast down low on the offensive side and D side.

I know this may sound racist but we need a Kevin Garnett from the hood type of player. Most Euros are fancy players but you need that street baller mentality that Garnett,Karl Malone, Charles Barkley brought to play.

They need SWAGGER and they do not have any of that besides Lowry who has the street baller mentality.

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11-12-2012, 02:11 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
The year to fall flat on our face to get a #1 pick should be 2014. Getting Wiggins does more than just give us a superstar player, it gives the organization a Canadian superstar as the face of the franchise. It would do wonders for the fan base across Canada, the team as a whole, and the organization who would have a legit superstar since Vince Carter

If I'm Colangelo I take my hits this year and next. This franchise is going nowhere with guys like Bargnani IMO. We have some nice pieces but as the story is year after year we don't have any superstars on our team. I would do anything to get Wiggins.
As socratic said, there are many things wrong with this:

a) Absolutely no guarantee Wiggins will be a star, let alone a superstar. Like every athlete, he's one knee injury away from retirement. It's too early to project his career or even his draft position. Let's focus on 2013 before we worry about 2014.

b) "Tanking" is not a real thing in professional sports. Owners want to make money, Coaches want to win, Players want to score, GM's want to win. As fans it's easy for us to look at the Raptor's 548W-804L regular season record and say that a catastrophic season couldn't hurt. Everybody on this page thinks differently. There are 34 names on that list that all want to keep their jobs. Some of them even want promotions. Losing games is not how that happens.

c) The Raptors at their current construction are far from a great team, but they aren't atrocious either. Put Lowry back into the lineup and they play much better. The 2012-2013 Raptors are not as bad as last year's Bobcats, or Cavaliers pre-Lebron, or this year's Pistons. There's no telling if the Raptors are even CAPABLE of being the worst team in the league and grabbing the #1 pick in 2014.



Ownership DOES want to win championships, as opposed to everybody that thinks that MLSE only cares about dollars and not about the fans. Because winning means more money. The fans ARE the income. Winning a championship means they get to embroider "20__ NBA Champions" on the side of every clothing item and sell it for 20% more. It means raising ticket prices to reflect the demand. It means more lucrative TV deals and more media exposure in the USA. OF COURSE ownership wants that. B

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11-12-2012, 02:21 PM
  #183
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Just my opinion but its time to deal Bargs. He is just a soft Euro that cannot play D. We need a baller to be the PF and be a beast down low on the offensive side and D side.

I know this may sound racist but we need a Kevin Garnett from the hood type of player. Most Euros are fancy players but you need that street baller mentality that Garnett,Karl Malone, Charles Barkley brought to play.

They need SWAGGER and they do not have any of that besides Lowry who has the street baller mentality.
Everybody knows this, but the fact of the matter is that the type of player you're describing doesn't just fall out of the air. Bargnani certainly doesn't have the trade value to get one...and the draft is a crapshoot unless your in the top 3-4.

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11-12-2012, 02:49 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Everybody knows this, but the fact of the matter is that the type of player you're describing doesn't just fall out of the air. Bargnani certainly doesn't have the trade value to get one...and the draft is a crapshoot unless your in the top 3-4.
It's the lack of heart he shows night in and night out. The other night against Dallas he scored 25 grabbed 9 boards had 3 assists and 2 steals. That's a good night for anyone but he followed it up with a 5 board night and his other games are 3 , 1 , 6.


At the moment he's defiantly not the centerpiece you can build a successful contending team around. If he's not scoring he doesn't bring enough of anything else to make a difference, He's heavily reliant on his jumper even when it's not falling. And doesn't trust his low game enough to go there regularly to change things up.

The season is only young but I don't think that after 6 seasons we're going to see a major overhaul in the way Andrea plays the game. He's going to have big nights where he does everything well (score, rebound etc, but he's mostly going to be a 18-20 point , 5 rebound type of player.

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11-12-2012, 02:50 PM
  #185
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You are absolutely kidding yourself.

1) Nobody outside of the basketball forum communities recognizes "BC" as Byran Colangelo. Forum communities represent maybe 5% of the fanbase at absolute best, but probably less than 1%.
2) "Fire Wilson" had zero impact. Chanting will a) always take a backseater to the more intelligent minds, and b) only represent the more drunken of the ticket holders
3) "BC" will be let go based on team play, not based on fan chanting. Do you honestly think that a manager of one of the biggest sports enterprises in the earth cares about 200 people in the drunk level seats? MLSE cares about building a franchise that is marketable to 10+ MILLION fans (GTA plus patriotic fans across the country). Building a successful team (let alone a championship) is MUCH more intricate than playing NBA 2k13for PS3.

There is probably 0.85% chance that a "FIRE BEE CEE" chant will catch on at the ACC.
No I am absolutely not. Maybe you're fine with a treadmill mediocre team but I am not. That's the problem with Toronto fans. They are happy with mediocrity. Demand more of your team, franchise, and front offices. you think I'm saying this to spout hyperbole? Let me prove how wrong you are.

1) Where do you get this information? It's not hard to figure out that Bryan Colangelo's initials are BC. This makes no sense at all. Even casual fans know who the GM of the team is..

2)How did it have "zero impact." The guy was fired like a week after the chants started. You underestimate how strong a fanbases opinion is. If the fans don't go to the games then you damn sure better makes some wholesale changes to get fans butts parked back in the seats. I guess you are also one of those people who thinks petitions don't do jack either.

3)Why do you keep quoting 'BC' as if it's a rare thing? Those are his initials it's not rocket science. Why are you defending a guy whose overpaid so many SF's in the past. Here's just a sample: Fred Jones, Jason Kapono, Landry Fields, Hedo Turkoglu, refuses to allow his coach to make rotation changes that doesn't force feed the softest, wimpiest PF in NBA history. Had the whole Bosh fiasco, didn't trade him when he said he wouldn't resign. Traded Roy Hibbert and some other good pieces for a broken down Jermaine O'Neal. I mean come on man look at this guys track record. He's a horrible GM. Quit playing Devils Advocate and wake up. You're being brain washed by a snake oil salesman.

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11-12-2012, 03:28 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
No I am absolutely not. Maybe you're fine with a treadmill mediocre team but I am not. That's the problem with Toronto fans. They are happy with mediocrity. Demand more of your team, franchise, and front offices. you think I'm saying this to spout hyperbole? Let me prove how wrong you are.

1) Where do you get this information? It's not hard to figure out that Bryan Colangelo's initials are BC. This makes no sense at all. Even casual fans know who the GM of the team is..

2)How did it have "zero impact." The guy was fired like a week after the chants started. You underestimate how strong a fanbases opinion is. If the fans don't go to the games then you damn sure better makes some wholesale changes to get fans butts parked back in the seats. I guess you are also one of those people who thinks petitions don't do jack either.

3)Why do you keep quoting 'BC' as if it's a rare thing? Those are his initials it's not rocket science. Why are you defending a guy whose overpaid so many SF's in the past. Here's just a sample: Fred Jones, Jason Kapono, Landry Fields, Hedo Turkoglu, refuses to allow his coach to make rotation changes that doesn't force feed the softest, wimpiest PF in NBA history. Had the whole Bosh fiasco, didn't trade him when he said he wouldn't resign. Traded Roy Hibbert and some other good pieces for a broken down Jermaine O'Neal. I mean come on man look at this guys track record. He's a horrible GM. Quit playing Devils Advocate and wake up. You're being brain washed by a snake oil salesman.
That seems to be true, I'm glad the only MLSE team I follow is the Raps. Everyone seems to be ok with an 8th place team. NBA is and always will be about the superstars. Until our team gets one we won't go anywhere.

Thing is, I'm not sure if Shabazz is a franchise guy. I wish Wiggins was eligible this year.

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11-12-2012, 03:44 PM
  #187
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No I am absolutely not. Maybe you're fine with a treadmill mediocre team but I am not. That's the problem with Toronto fans. They are happy with mediocrity. Demand more of your team, franchise, and front offices. you think I'm saying this to spout hyperbole? Let me prove how wrong you are.

1) Where do you get this information? It's not hard to figure out that Bryan Colangelo's initials are BC. This makes no sense at all. Even casual fans know who the GM of the team is..

2)How did it have "zero impact." The guy was fired like a week after the chants started. You underestimate how strong a fanbases opinion is. If the fans don't go to the games then you damn sure better makes some wholesale changes to get fans butts parked back in the seats. I guess you are also one of those people who thinks petitions don't do jack either.

3)Why do you keep quoting 'BC' as if it's a rare thing? Those are his initials it's not rocket science. Why are you defending a guy whose overpaid so many SF's in the past. Here's just a sample: Fred Jones, Jason Kapono, Landry Fields, Hedo Turkoglu, refuses to allow his coach to make rotation changes that doesn't force feed the softest, wimpiest PF in NBA history. Had the whole Bosh fiasco, didn't trade him when he said he wouldn't resign. Traded Roy Hibbert and some other good pieces for a broken down Jermaine O'Neal. I mean come on man look at this guys track record. He's a horrible GM. Quit playing Devils Advocate and wake up. You're being brain washed by a snake oil salesman.
I play the Devil's Advocate because guys like you make it so easy. I am NOT happy with Colangelo and I am NOT happy with the Raptor's franchise as a whole. Your "proofs" are misguided:

1) BC means Before Christ, British Columbia and a hundred other things before Brian Colangelo comes to mind. I hate the overuse of initials for people that don't deserve recognition. AI is Allen Iverson. MJ is Michael Jordan (or Michael Jackson). DD is not Derozan it's a bra size and BC is a time period. Referring to somebody by their initials only is absolutely juvenile until they reach a level that EVERYbody instantaneously knows who you are referring to. If Fan 590 and Toronto Star and TSN and every other sports media in Toronto referred to Colangelo as "BC", then yes I can understand chanting it. But they don't. Nobody at the ACC does.

BTW, are you excited for the GG movie starring LDC and TM? I bet it's gonna do better in the BO then the MS movie SI also starring LDC.

I get my information being a member of a society that communicates verbally and not through written text. I've also been to the ACC (*a universally recognized acronym*) enough times to know that the clientele that attend games don't participate in shorthand conversations over the internet. BC means nothing to 95% of the fans there. The name Colangelo means something, but not "BC".


2) Ron Wilson chanting was a successor to hundreds of negative articles written by the media, and undoubtedly a successor from tons of pressure put on Burke by his colleagues and employers. Chanting might have been the icing on the cake, but chanting didn't build the cake. I think Mos Def said it best:
Quote:
Why did one straw break the camel's back? Here's the secret:
The million other straws underneath it

3) I never ever ever defended "BC", you simply assume I did because I pointed out the stupidity for your post. You said you want people to chant "Fire BC" as if that will have impact. I am simply explaining to you that it WON'T. In fact, my 3rd point that you quoted states that Colangelo will be fired based on team play. Team play is awful right now, and THAT is what is likely to get Colangelo fired. Some lame attempt to start a chant at the ACC is not going to affect that.

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11-12-2012, 05:56 PM
  #188
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val at 20 a night is alright but considering they don't utilize him much in the offense is annoying. Ross getting about 9 minutes a game is really annoying considering a struggling Fields is getting over 21 minutes a night.

I really hate the fact that both Ross and Davis are getting garbage minutes. Davis I would like to see up around at least 18-20 a night, but the raps have a bit of a log jam upfront.

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11-12-2012, 06:54 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
I play the Devil's Advocate because guys like you make it so easy. I am NOT happy with Colangelo and I am NOT happy with the Raptor's franchise as a whole. Your "proofs" are misguided:

1) BC means Before Christ, British Columbia and a hundred other things before Brian Colangelo comes to mind. I hate the overuse of initials for people that don't deserve recognition. AI is Allen Iverson. MJ is Michael Jordan (or Michael Jackson). DD is not Derozan it's a bra size and BC is a time period. Referring to somebody by their initials only is absolutely juvenile until they reach a level that EVERYbody instantaneously knows who you are referring to. If Fan 590 and Toronto Star and TSN and every other sports media in Toronto referred to Colangelo as "BC", then yes I can understand chanting it. But they don't. Nobody at the ACC does.

BTW, are you excited for the GG movie starring LDC and TM? I bet it's gonna do better in the BO then the MS movie SI also starring LDC.

I get my information being a member of a society that communicates verbally and not through written text. I've also been to the ACC (*a universally recognized acronym*) enough times to know that the clientele that attend games don't participate in shorthand conversations over the internet. BC means nothing to 95% of the fans there. The name Colangelo means something, but not "BC".


2) Ron Wilson chanting was a successor to hundreds of negative articles written by the media, and undoubtedly a successor from tons of pressure put on Burke by his colleagues and employers. Chanting might have been the icing on the cake, but chanting didn't build the cake. I think Mos Def said it best:



3) I never ever ever defended "BC", you simply assume I did because I pointed out the stupidity for your post. You said you want people to chant "Fire BC" as if that will have impact. I am simply explaining to you that it WON'T. In fact, my 3rd point that you quoted states that Colangelo will be fired based on team play. Team play is awful right now, and THAT is what is likely to get Colangelo fired. Some lame attempt to start a chant at the ACC is not going to affect that.
You must really think people are st00pid if they don't know what initials are. They were able to chant "VC SUCKS!"

Also FIRE COLANGELO doesn't work the same as FIRE BC! It doesn't have the same cadence.

I'm not arguing semantics with you. Welcome to my ignore list.

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11-12-2012, 06:57 PM
  #190
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Just noticed Marvin Williams playing. Wow, what a bust.

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11-12-2012, 06:58 PM
  #191
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I play the Devil's Advocate because guys like you make it so easy. I am NOT happy with Colangelo and I am NOT happy with the Raptor's franchise as a whole. Your "proofs" are misguided:

1) BC means Before Christ, British Columbia and a hundred other things before Brian Colangelo comes to mind. I hate the overuse of initials for people that don't deserve recognition. AI is Allen Iverson. MJ is Michael Jordan (or Michael Jackson). DD is not Derozan it's a bra size and BC is a time period. Referring to somebody by their initials only is absolutely juvenile until they reach a level that EVERYbody instantaneously knows who you are referring to. If Fan 590 and Toronto Star and TSN and every other sports media in Toronto referred to Colangelo as "BC", then yes I can understand chanting it. But they don't. Nobody at the ACC does.

BTW, are you excited for the GG movie starring LDC and TM? I bet it's gonna do better in the BO then the MS movie SI also starring LDC.

I get my information being a member of a society that communicates verbally and not through written text. I've also been to the ACC (*a universally recognized acronym*) enough times to know that the clientele that attend games don't participate in shorthand conversations over the internet. BC means nothing to 95% of the fans there. The name Colangelo means something, but not "BC".


2) Ron Wilson chanting was a successor to hundreds of negative articles written by the media, and undoubtedly a successor from tons of pressure put on Burke by his colleagues and employers. Chanting might have been the icing on the cake, but chanting didn't build the cake. I think Mos Def said it best:



3) I never ever ever defended "BC", you simply assume I did because I pointed out the stupidity for your post. You said you want people to chant "Fire BC" as if that will have impact. I am simply explaining to you that it WON'T. In fact, my 3rd point that you quoted states that Colangelo will be fired based on team play. Team play is awful right now, and THAT is what is likely to get Colangelo fired. Some lame attempt to start a chant at the ACC is not going to affect that.
LOL so you think if people chant BC, people will think they're chanting Before Christ? Some people just complain because they're bored..

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11-12-2012, 07:12 PM
  #192
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Just noticed Marvin Williams playing. Wow, what a bust.
I remember that year for UNC, was like 4 or 5 players in just the first round?

Thought Sean May was going to be great, obviously not lol.

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11-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #193
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Raptors hanging in but they still aren't guarding anybody. Jazz shooting 48%, 53% behind the arc. Ross has only played 3 minutes, the rotations Casey run are confusing.

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11-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #194
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Raptors hanging in but they still aren't guarding anybody. Jazz shooting 48%, 53% behind the arc. Ross has only played 3 minutes, the rotations Casey run are confusing.
Both teams are actually guarding well, the shots are just falling in.

DeMar has looked impressive lately. He's shooting efficiently, grabbing boards, and finding the open man.

And JL III just hit a jumper.

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11-12-2012, 07:58 PM
  #195
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lol well done demar. All part of the plan!

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11-12-2012, 08:00 PM
  #196
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Ooh Lucas is hitting floaters now too.

Also, just noticed Calderon has 4 less assists than the entire Jazz team.

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11-12-2012, 08:01 PM
  #197
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I smell a W!

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11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
  #198
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Jazz right back in it.

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11-12-2012, 08:12 PM
  #199
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11-12-2012, 08:14 PM
  #200
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FT woes aside, this is the kind of stat line we need to see more of out of DeMar. He's had a good night.

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