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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:36 AM
  #226
MarcWagz
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if i told my boss i should make more money than him even though the company wasn't making money I'd be out of a job quick.

players are given more than enough money for a job that is only half the year.

i hope the league is cancelled all year.

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11-21-2012, 11:47 AM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How about letting the rich teams adopt the poor teams.

It's coming up on Christmas and we could extend the adopt a family plan to adopt a franchise.

Leafs could adopt the Islanders.
Rangers adopt the Coyotes.
Flyers adopt the ...
The Buddy System CBA !!!

Take the richest/most profitable team and pair it with the poorest/least profitable one. Combine joint revenues & joint expenses and split the profits 50/50 just like the NHL/NHLPA are eventually going to do with an equal partnership.

Take the second most profitable team and pair it with the second least etc etc (rinse and repeat) until everyone has a BUDDY franchise that it looks after and it supports financially.

Toronto being paired with NYI, could make the Islanders more profitable by simply have MLSE agree to pay Tavares salary for the NYI as part of the BUDDY system, and so cutting Tavares salary wouldn't be the issue for a lockout as we have now where NYI are hoping to pay him 12% less than he currently makes.

Tavares is a local Ontario kid, so when Toronto fans show up to watch their Leafs play at the ACC, they can be comforted in knowing their gate receipt money is going to help the career of a young Canadian kid prosper while earning a living playing in a foreign country. Makes more sense really than Leaf fans supporting Ownership in this current battle to ensure Larry Tanenbaum is padding more money to his billions.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:36 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Because every single CBA related issue be it HHR% overall share, make whole on existing contracts, and/or individual player contracting rights by the NHLPA is all moving in a negative direction for them.

Owners want a greater cut of the HRR pie, coming from the players, they don't want to pay the players the money they agreed to originally, and they want longer UFA status, shorter contract length teams and $$ earned restrictions, etc, which are all benefits for them.

Every move regardless of how small is a WIN for the Owners and increase from the old CBA, and every single move by the NHLPA is a LOSS (losing proposition) for them because the relationship is inversely proportional in what is a direct gain for one side is an equal and opposite loss for the other side.

The only thing the NHLPA can do is hold on tight trying to diminishes their own losses in a take back CBA for the Owners unilaterally across the board. The biggest concession they can make is meet the Owners at a 50/50 HRR revenue split (which they have) which is a minus 12% revenue LOSS for their side.

After that they simply have to nullify the other claw-back damage attempts by Owners to the point where they eventually concede and leave things as they are at present like individual player rights. Status Quo on individual player rights while not a GAIN by fighting to keep things the same, is still a WIN for their side (best case scenario) by not having to give and move towards Owners demands.

If the Owners where actually offering something/anything that was in the favour of the NHLPA and a gain from the previous CBA we could have movement in an actual give and take negotiation. But in a one sided ALL TAKE on one side verses a ALL GIVE on the other its hard to meet in the middle and complete a deal when only one side is expected to make all the sacrifices to get there. So NHLPA not willingly surrendering to all NHL demands is quite understandable really, even if they have lessened those demands over time.
We'll never agree to this and you know it but WHY THE HECK NOT??? The players were earning 57%! of the pie on the last CBA. There is no way in hell they were going to GAIN on that. Any new CBA WILL BE A LOSS FOR THEM. That's the point. They were earning far too much of the pie. They WILL surrender; be it now or in the future. They aren't out-waiting the owners and I for one am fine with that.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:39 PM
  #229
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Man I can't help but get my hopes up after hearing about the NHLPA's proposal. They are finally speaking the same language. The Players have finally moved from their unrealistic proposals, as the NHL had done.

It looks like we're going to have a season after all. If they can find a way an agreeable way to get rid of cap circumvention, I'm sure the League will live with long term contracts being possible.

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11-21-2012, 12:42 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
Man I can't help but get my hopes up after hearing about the NHLPA's proposal. They are finally speaking the same language. The Players have finally moved from their unrealistic proposals, as the NHL had done.

It looks like we're going to have a season after all. If they can find a way an agreeable way to get rid of cap circumvention, I'm sure the League will live with long term contracts being possible.
As a fan of hockey, I hope the deal gets done.

As a fan of business, the PA has been nothing but unprofessional and uncooperative in these discussions and I wish the NHL would squash them. But that would have its own negative effects.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The Buddy System CBA !!!

Take the richest/most profitable team and pair it with the poorest/least profitable one. Combine joint revenues & joint expenses and split the profits 50/50 just like the NHL/NHLPA are eventually going to do with an equal partnership.

Take the second most profitable team and pair it with the second least etc etc (rinse and repeat) until everyone has a BUDDY franchise that it looks after and it supports financially.

Toronto being paired with NYI, could make the Islanders more profitable by simply have MLSE agree to pay Tavares salary for the NYI as part of the BUDDY system, and so cutting Tavares salary wouldn't be the issue for a lockout as we have now where NYI are hoping to pay him 12% less than he currently makes.

Tavares is a local Ontario kid, so when Toronto fans show up to watch their Leafs play at the ACC, they can be comforted in knowing their gate receipt money is going to help the career of a young Canadian kid prosper while earning a living playing in a foreign country. Makes more sense really than Leaf fans supporting Ownership in this current battle to ensure Larry Tanenbaum is padding more money to his billions.


Why do you even bother thinking and typing all of that?

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #232
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

Players memo on their proposal.

If the owners can't work off this we know they have no intentions.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:22 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

Players memo on their proposal.

If the owners can't work off this we know they have no intentions.
The Players offer is not working off Owners offer so there is clearly no intention from NHLPA to play a season

NHLPA says there is no guaranteed a share but then it stats clearly that years 2-5 would see a guaranteed amount for players

Thus it is not linked with revenue and as NHL owners have said from the start that is a no go

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
The Players offer is not working off Owners offer so there is clearly no intention from NHLPA to play a season

NHLPA says there is no guaranteed a share but then it stats clearly that years 2-5 would see a guaranteed amount for players

Thus it is not linked with revenue and as NHL owners have said from the start that is a no go
They want a phase in the 50/50 concept and I think it's absolutely fair. They are the only ones giving in this negotiations. Unless you count the original phoney proposal where the players where to take a 14 percent revenue share loss.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:00 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

Players memo on their proposal.

If the owners can't work off this we know they have no intentions.
Read this. Then tell me what part of 'De-linked proposals will not be accepted' the players are having a hard time understanding:

Quote:
There are no guarantees or fixed targets, other than a requirement that, beginning with the second year of the Agreement, players' share, expressed in dollars, may not fall below its value for the prior season. This proposal allows us to determine players' share regardless of the effects of the lockout and its aftermath.
All of the benefits. None of the risk. Sounds pretty fair to me!

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #236
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Here's something interesting I came across.....
http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/11/20/...-a-subway-map/

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:52 PM
  #237
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Why the hell are the players so against a link system?

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:16 PM
  #238
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Why the hell are the players so against a link system?
Cause Fehr doesn't believe in the concept (Nor a cap concept)

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11-21-2012, 05:44 PM
  #239
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Cause Fehr doesn't believe in the concept (Nor a cap concept)
I'm not sure what he's thinking with this. This isn't the MLB or MLBPA.

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11-21-2012, 05:50 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
I'm not sure what he's thinking with this. This isn't the MLB or MLBPA.
Fold the league start a new one paid with base salaries 1m and create a bonus metric.

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:51 PM
  #241
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Fold the league start a new one paid with base salaries 1m and create a bonus metric.
Too much money invested by too many big businessmen to pull this off.

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:53 PM
  #242
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I'm not sure what he's thinking with this. This isn't the MLB or MLBPA.
He thinks he is dealing with Selig and co

NHL is entire different animal and he treats them like pushovers that Selig/etc were. Also he thinks since he prevented cap/linkage in MLB that he can somehow remove it from NHL

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11-21-2012, 06:38 PM
  #243
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Hopefully they both stand their ground, and the weak whither and die.

Fewer scrubs in the NHL makes a top 9 bottom 3 much easier to digest.

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:53 PM
  #244
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Hopefully they both stand their ground, and the weak whither and die.

Fewer scrubs in the NHL makes a top 9 bottom 3 much easier to digest.
And will you stand by this the next time Cnd dollar is weak?

Remember Bettman/BOG saved Ottawa/Edmonton/Calgary once already

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:31 PM
  #245
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Im actually kinda optimistic after today.

PA presented their very first written proposal giving the NHL hard figures to work with.

Bettman "appreciated" the effort and hopes momentum can build

More and more minor issues are being agreed to all the time.

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:36 PM
  #246
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Im actually kinda optimistic after today.

PA presented their very first written proposal giving the NHL hard figures to work with.

Bettman "appreciated" the effort and hopes momentum can build

More and more minor issues are being agreed to all the time.
I don't know if I'd say optimism is in the air quite yet. Check my post HERE

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11-21-2012, 08:42 PM
  #247
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http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...3368--nhl.html

Union solidarity in question?

Choice words by Roman Hamrlik:

"I am disgusted. We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?

"There should be voting between players. Four questions - YES or NO - then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA. If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."

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11-21-2012, 09:17 PM
  #248
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And that is the issue with the players. Their avg. career is 7 years. The owners can own a team until they die. They can't afford to lose an entire season. That's crazy. They just lost one not that long ago.

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #249
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i guess everyone is happy with the moves the blue jays made.
so now there payroll is over 100 mil.
rogers looks like there going to lose money this year.
we all should not watch the blue jays play, there are paying there players to much.
just like the NHL, THE PLAYERS ARE NOT WORTH THE MONEY THEY GET.
you guys are complaining about how much the hockey players are making, but once your baseball team adds 50 mil to there payroll , your all happy, why?

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11-21-2012, 09:42 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
i guess everyone is happy with the moves the blue jays made.
so now there payroll is over 100 mil.
rogers looks like there going to lose money this year.
we all should not watch the blue jays play, there are paying there players to much.
just like the NHL, THE PLAYERS ARE NOT WORTH THE MONEY THEY GET.
you guys are complaining about how much the hockey players are making, but once your baseball team adds 50 mil to there payroll , your all happy, why?
The Jays are in the toughest division in sports that's why. The two top payrolls by far in the only sport without a cap are in their division.

And if the Jays win, Rogers won't lose money.

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