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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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11-30-2012, 09:27 AM
  #401
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im ready to give up on the season now
I've already done that. Honestly, watching the BPL gives me all the sports I need over the winter. Screw these guys. They can bargain themselves into oblivion for all I care. Owners and players included.

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11-30-2012, 09:29 AM
  #402
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It's worth a try because we all know Bettman and Fehr are like oil and water. I seriously doubt a deal is made unless one or both of these guys are removed from the equation.

I really don't think it's going to work. Both sides are entrenched. This is the last step before decertification and the end of the season. I think when all is said and done, the players will probably get what they want and have no cap, all of their rights they want but will have to deal with many lost jobs and a significantly smaller pie for many many years.

There will be no winners anymore.

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11-30-2012, 01:13 PM
  #403
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It's worth a try because we all know Bettman and Fehr are like oil and water. I seriously doubt a deal is made unless one or both of these guys are removed from the equation.

I really don't think it's going to work. Both sides are entrenched. This is the last step before decertification and the end of the season. I think when all is said and done, the players will probably get what they want and have no cap, all of their rights they want but will have to deal with many lost jobs and a significantly smaller pie for many many years.

There will be no winners anymore.
Gary Bettman always has problems. Doesn't matter who is on the other side of the table.

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11-30-2012, 02:09 PM
  #404
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<snip>
So as far as I'm concerned there are two different issues here 1). Cap Calculation 2). Player contract $$ and terms. You can easily create a CBA system that controls #1, and that doesn't require the limiting of #2 through a lockout. Simply change the cap calculation formula and not the players contract to address the real issue of concern.
Good point. The calculation can be adjusted to address the interests of parity.
In addition to an annual limit on salary or cap hit, there could be a limit on the total commited future dollars under contract. This would counter balance the back diving. Having Luongo for several years at $1M helps the annual cap hit, but hurts against a total dollar limit. Maybe the limit could be approx 4x the annual cap.

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11-30-2012, 02:15 PM
  #405
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**** off, NHL, just **** off! I am so mad about all of this. It's like both sides are living in some fantasy world. I have always been asking, why not just work together as partners? Instead of both sides trying to win the battle? Every time I see Daly or Bettman, or Fehr saying that they are far apart and no progress has been made, I just want punch something.

Wake up!

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11-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
**** off, NHL, just **** off! I am so mad about all of this. It's like both sides are living in some fantasy world. I have always been asking, why not just work together as partners? Instead of both sides trying to win the battle? Every time I see Daly or Bettman, or Fehr saying that they are far apart and no progress has been made, I just want punch something.

Wake up!
Chillax man...but seriously its looking like another lost season. The NHL is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Not too smart on either party's part, IMO....I really think the owners hold ALL the cards however as the vast majority of owners probably don't make all that much money from their NHL franchises....more like a hobby or something while NHL players are pissing away millions of dollars from their #1 bread and butter income sources. They also have short careers, so not getting paid for a whole year is a real kick in the groin to most players. How is losing millions of dollars over a matter of "principle" being smart? Will the money they will lose from not playing a whole year be made up over the course of their careers from some small CBA victory? Hell no. Meanwhile....this will absolutely kill hockey in probably half a dozen markets or so....meaning less jobs for the brainless jocks.

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11-30-2012, 03:40 PM
  #407
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Chillax man...but seriously its looking like another lost season. The NHL is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Not too smart on either party's part, IMO....I really think the owners hold ALL the cards however as the vast majority of owners probably don't make all that much money from their NHL franchises....more like a hobby or something while NHL players are pissing away millions of dollars from their #1 bread and butter income sources. They also have short careers, so not getting paid for a whole year is a real kick in the groin to most players. How is losing millions of dollars over a matter of "principle" being smart? Will the money they will lose from not playing a whole year be made up over the course of their careers from some small CBA victory? Hell no. Meanwhile....this will absolutely kill hockey in probably half a dozen markets or so....meaning less jobs for the brainless jocks.
I am just frustrated, man. I know I can sound like a baby that just had a toy taken away from him, but what can I do? It sucks the way the fans are being treated here.

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11-30-2012, 03:53 PM
  #408
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Many players careers are now finished.

They simply don't realize it yet.I believe the year is now lost.When they come back,many teams will have lost their fanbase and those franchises will go under as the recession deepens.No longer will billionaires be in the mood to lose money nor the fans to overpay for a product which is ranked 6th or less in America.It is the owners who can walk away from their charity work/pet projects.Teams will fold and salaries will come back to earth except for the select few.The players are weeks away from looking for new jobs in Europe/Russia etc or even in the E.I lines.

The owners have nothing to lose now by cancelling the season,many of them will save money.

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11-30-2012, 07:43 PM
  #409
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I'm more on the owners sides then the players at this point. First thing is players want guaranteed contracts, well I'm fine for the existing contracts to be honored but when the new CBA is reached I really think they need to get rid of these 10-15 year contracts, its just well... absurd. The second thing is right now players get 57% of the revenue and the NHL only gets 43%, IMO players should not be taking home the lions share of the revenue, I believe owners should be taking the majority, actually I'd even be fine with 50/50 IF it means getting a new CBA but realisticly it at best should be 60/40 (oweners 60, players 40).

I'm no Bettman fan, but at least he is trying to act in good faith. I have yet to see the NHLPA come up with ideas on HOW to get past this massive bump in the road.

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11-30-2012, 07:53 PM
  #410
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I'm no Bettman fan, but at least he is trying to act in good faith. I have yet to see the NHLPA come up with ideas on HOW to get past this massive bump in the road.
Bettman and the Owners put up the bump in the road and locked the doors. Perhaps they should lower their demands on player rights and take their own bump down.

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12-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #411
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PLAYERS TO DECIDE BY SATURDAY ON PROPOSED PLAYER-OWNER MEETING

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410675

Love to hear what Jacobs has to say.


I really think the offer should be to tear up every contract the owners don't want to honour but allow the teams to make whole outside of the 50/50 split if they are willing to honour it.

If the Penguins don't want to honour the contract they have with Sidney give Sidney the option of tearing it up and pursuing another contract anywhere in the league.

It just seems fair to me.

If the player is willing to play under the terms of the reduced contract let it be his choice.

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12-01-2012, 12:34 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
I've already done that. Honestly, watching the BPL gives me all the sports I need over the winter. Screw these guys. They can bargain themselves into oblivion for all I care. Owners and players included.
This is my feeling as well. When 2 sides act like a bunch of teenage girls and totally forget that without fans they literally have nothing to fight about...then i say kill it.

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12-01-2012, 12:34 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
PLAYERS TO DECIDE BY SATURDAY ON PROPOSED PLAYER-OWNER MEETING

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410675

Love to hear what Jacobs has to say.


I really think the offer should be to tear up every contract the owners don't want to honour but allow the teams to make whole outside of the 50/50 split if they are willing to honour it.

If the Penguins don't want to honour the contract they have with Sidney give Sidney the option of tearing it up and pursuing another contract anywhere in the league.

It just seems fair to me.

If the player is willing to play under the terms of the reduced contract let it be his choice.
But that would be an owner concession and we know they won't allow that. Besides, the players still have lots more to give.

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12-01-2012, 12:37 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Chillax man...but seriously its looking like another lost season. The NHL is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Not too smart on either party's part, IMO....I really think the owners hold ALL the cards however as the vast majority of owners probably don't make all that much money from their NHL franchises....more like a hobby or something while NHL players are pissing away millions of dollars from their #1 bread and butter income sources. They also have short careers, so not getting paid for a whole year is a real kick in the groin to most players. How is losing millions of dollars over a matter of "principle" being smart? Will the money they will lose from not playing a whole year be made up over the course of their careers from some small CBA victory? Hell no. Meanwhile....this will absolutely kill hockey in probably half a dozen markets or so....meaning less jobs for the brainless jocks.
This is the crazy thing to me....Bettman is hardlining it to help these franchises, yet if the season is lost, some will fold anyway.

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12-01-2012, 12:49 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
PLAYERS TO DECIDE BY SATURDAY ON PROPOSED PLAYER-OWNER MEETING

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410675

Love to hear what Jacobs has to say.


I really think the offer should be to tear up every contract the owners don't want to honour but allow the teams to make whole outside of the 50/50 split if they are willing to honour it.

If the Penguins don't want to honour the contract they have with Sidney give Sidney the option of tearing it up and pursuing another contract anywhere in the league.

It just seems fair to me.

If the player is willing to play under the terms of the reduced contract let it be his choice.
Sounds like giving GMs an easy way out of retirement contracts.

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12-01-2012, 12:54 PM
  #416
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But that would be an owner concession and we know they won't allow that. Besides, the players still have lots more to give.
Yep, I think the players have two more things they will give.

1. The Association will step away from the negotiations - Disclaimer
2. The Association will decertify.

Meeting with the owners might be their last opportunity to negotiate, but if there remains no desire to negotiate I think it is toast.

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12-01-2012, 12:56 PM
  #417
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Sounds like giving GMs an easy way out of retirement contracts.
It would be up to the player to decide if he'd take the reduced contract which the owners would be obligated to honour.

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12-01-2012, 01:08 PM
  #418
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But that would be an owner concession and we know they won't allow that. Besides, the players still have lots more to give.
Those wonderful, benevolent players. They should all be granted Orders of Canada (or whatever country they are from). All they do is give.

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12-01-2012, 01:59 PM
  #419
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2004-05 season, the season was cancelled on February 16th, 2005.

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12-01-2012, 02:40 PM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
PLAYERS TO DECIDE BY SATURDAY ON PROPOSED PLAYER-OWNER MEETING

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410675

Love to hear what Jacobs has to say.


I really think the offer should be to tear up every contract the owners don't want to honour but allow the teams to make whole outside of the 50/50 split if they are willing to honour it.

If the Penguins don't want to honour the contract they have with Sidney give Sidney the option of tearing it up and pursuing another contract anywhere in the league.

It just seems fair to me.

If the player is willing to play under the terms of the reduced contract let it be his choice.
I kind of like that idea.

Either the teams agrees to pay in full already existing contracts, or they tear up the contract and the player becomes UFA immediatly.

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12-01-2012, 03:02 PM
  #421
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Bettman and the Owners put up the bump in the road and locked the doors. Perhaps they should lower their demands on player rights and take their own bump down.
I agree, Bettman and crew are behaving like a bunch of selfish divas never denied that. What I am saying is the NHLPA is acting even worse (if thats even possible), Fehr was given the option to negotiate a year ago by the league and he snubbed it and waited to the 23rd hour to negotiate. Not just that the players want their cake and too eat it too, they want the same type of retirment contracts in the new CBA and they also want half of the revenue earnings, which is pure greediness IMO. I'm fine with the players having their existing contracts honored, but I don't believe they should be inked to new 10-15 year deals either once the CBA is agreed upon, nor do I believe they deserve 1/2 of the total revenue either.

If players want a deal done, they have to learn how to compromise, and so far they aren't willing to flex.

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12-01-2012, 03:11 PM
  #422
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Bettman and the Owners put up the bump in the road and locked the doors. Perhaps they should lower their demands on player rights and take their own bump down.
The NHLPA closed the doors by refusing to talk to NHL about CBA for 9 months

And the NHL had no other option as 92 NHLPA strike and Fehr 94 baseball strike show why you cant go into a season without a CBA (Especially when a union refuses to even discuss with management CBA issues)

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12-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #423
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The NHLPA closed the doors by refusing to talk to NHL about CBA for 9 months

And the NHL had no other option as 92 NHLPA strike and Fehr 94 baseball strike show why you cant go into a season without a CBA (Especially when a union refuses to even discuss with management CBA issues)
Do you believe the unreasonable Owners demands were any better 9 months ago for the NHLPA?

The way talking earlier would have had any benefit on this current lockout situation is if the Owners would have demanded less take backs, otherwise we would be in the exact position we are today.

I'm dubious to believe 9 months earlier the owners would have accepted less than 50% of HRR, and were willing to honour current contracts and didn't want UFA age raised and contract terms lessened and arbitration removed. Do you?

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12-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #424
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I agree, Bettman and crew are behaving like a bunch of selfish divas never denied that. What I am saying is the NHLPA is acting even worse (if thats even possible), Fehr was given the option to negotiate a year ago by the league and he snubbed it and waited to the 23rd hour to negotiate. Not just that the players want their cake and too eat it too, they want the same type of retirment contracts in the new CBA and they also want half of the revenue earnings, which is pure greediness IMO. I'm fine with the players having their existing contracts honored, but I don't believe they should be inked to new 10-15 year deals either once the CBA is agreed upon, nor do I believe they deserve 1/2 of the total revenue either.

If players want a deal done, they have to learn how to compromise, and so far they aren't willing to flex.
Every single item in the CBA that is being changed is all in favour of the Owners.

Compromise is a 2 way street in most cases, and I would love to know what one side taking 100% and the other expected to give 100% is called when it comes to negotiation? The NHLPA's compromise is how much they allow the owners to run over them, and how much they agree to give up in that process eventually.

What has changed in this CBA from the past one that the Owners have compromised on and it benefited the NHLPA ?

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12-01-2012, 04:07 PM
  #425
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Every single item in the CBA that is being changed is all in favour of the Owners.

Compromise is a 2 way street in most cases, and I would love to know what one side taking 100% and the other expected to give 100% is called when it comes to negotiation? The NHLPA's compromise is how much they allow the owners to run over them, and how much they agree to give up in that process eventually.

What has changed in this CBA from the past one that the Owners have compromised on and it benefited the NHLPA ?
And yet the owners were considered clear winners of the last lockout. This is why I don't get why so many people side with the owners?

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