HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2012, 10:51 AM
  #676
SprDaVE
Registered User
 
SprDaVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,310
vCash: 500
From the sounds of things the players are about to commit suicide.

They are being quite a bit greedy.

SprDaVE is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 10:58 AM
  #677
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,786
vCash: 202
What % of the players actualy give a damn about contract length or the varience per year ?

This only affects the top 20-30 % so why should the rest of the players support losing the season over this .

hotpaws is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 10:58 AM
  #678
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
I agree. I believe we are going to shed several of our 1yr contracts and make room for a lot of the high performing Marlies whom are in game shape.

I don't expect most if not all of Connolly, Steckel, Lombardi and one of our D men to be on the starting lineup if and when the season starts.
I don't think he'll be able to trade them (at least not until the TDL), and he will not bury them in the minors.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:01 AM
  #679
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
From the sounds of things the players are about to commit suicide.

They are being quite a bit greedy.
I wonder what Kipper will come up with next to try to justify their stance. It was really painful to watch him grasp for reasons why the players didn't have time to get a proposal scribbled up for yesterday morning.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #680
Squiffy
Victims, rn't we all
 
Squiffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
What % of the players actualy give a damn about contract length or the varience per year ?

This only affects the top 20-30 % so why should the rest of the players support losing the season over this .
I'd submit that it's the principle of it, which isn't a good thing lol.. logically it really isn't a big deal, hopefully logic carries the day in the end of this.

__________________
bWo: If you don't know, you should know... Buds WORLD Order Constitution
Adj: "Squiffy" - stupefied by a chemical substance (esp. alcohol)

R.I.P. Darryl buddy... it was too soon.. too soon
Squiffy is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:07 AM
  #681
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,359
vCash: 500
People are surprised that things fell apart as soon as actual proposals were submitted. This has been the case every single time to date. The players need to stop negotiating and start decertifying imo.

Jerkini is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:07 AM
  #682
Hurt
Global Moderator
 
Hurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,242
vCash: 500
Ryan Miller was/is extremely displeased.

__________________
Shoot me a PM with your concerns. Also, come visit us in the Science Forum!
Hurt is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:08 AM
  #683
Squiffy
Victims, rn't we all
 
Squiffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
I don't think he'll be able to trade them (at least not until the TDL), and he will not bury them in the minors.
Somebody say "compliance buyout option"? heh..

Squiffy is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:11 AM
  #684
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 4,689
vCash: 500
Lets hope that they even meet today.....

diceman934 is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:30 AM
  #685
uiCk
GrEmelins
 
uiCk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,198
vCash: 500
the players will not come out of these negotiations pleased. From their perspective, putting aside greed, they are taking a paycut, no matter the final solution will be.

uiCk is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:30 AM
  #686
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
ROFL. Kipper and Mac are going at it again. This is pure comedy.

Kipper: Maybe that's why you couldn't get wins in Columbus.
Mac: Maybe that's why your career only lasted 8 years in the NHL.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:32 AM
  #687
Michael Gary Scott
Toronto Maple Tron's
 
Michael Gary Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,833
vCash: 50
Kyp and Mac are going at it hard! Wow lol

Michael Gary Scott is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:32 AM
  #688
Cor
I'm Not Drunk
 
Cor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Not Hurt's Basement
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,119
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
ROFL. Kipper and Mac are going at it again. This is pure comedy.
When Kyper made the "maybe that's why you didn't win in Columbus" comment, I thought they were going to start trading blows

Cor is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:38 AM
  #689
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 4,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
When Kyper made the "maybe that's why you didn't win in Columbus" comment, I thought they were going to start trading blows
Loved it!

A player and an GM going at it! Kipper does have a ring!

diceman934 is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:39 AM
  #690
DirtyDion03
Big Wheel
 
DirtyDion03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,856
vCash: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
When Kyper made the "maybe that's why you didn't win in Columbus" comment, I thought they were going to start trading blows
Kyper is wrong here though and Maclean is right. He's trying to say that this new deal is going to kill 3rd and 4th liners but it's not. It's going to reduce the long-term deals that players get for retirement and it's going to save a ton of money for the 3rd and 4th liners. This will benefit everybody and not just the superstars.

__________________
http://i57.tinypic.com/28b4abo.jpg
DirtyDion03 is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:44 AM
  #691
Cor
I'm Not Drunk
 
Cor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Not Hurt's Basement
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,119
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Kyper is wrong here though and Maclean is right. He's trying to say that this new deal is going to kill 3rd and 4th liners but it's not. It's going to reduce the long-term deals that players get for retirement and it's going to save a ton of money for the 3rd and 4th liners. This will benefit everybody and not just the superstars.
I see both sides of it. I agree with Doug that there is nothing on either side that should stop a deal at this point. Last time it was the Make Whole amount, but now the players should ask for a 7 year cap on all deals not just own fa's and maybe 7.5% variance (cut it in the middle). The players should take this with some small changes and run with it

Cor is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:47 AM
  #692
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Kyper is wrong here though and Maclean is right. He's trying to say that this new deal is going to kill 3rd and 4th liners but it's not. It's going to reduce the long-term deals that players get for retirement and it's going to save a ton of money for the 3rd and 4th liners. This will benefit everybody and not just the superstars.
Absolutely. It is not the 3rd and 4th liners that they're fighting for atm, if it was, I'd be a lot more sympathetic. It's about allowing the rich to get richer, or at least, to maintain the status quo that the previous CBA combined with the ever rising salary cap gave them.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:49 AM
  #693
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 4,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Kyper is wrong here though and Maclean is right. He's trying to say that this new deal is going to kill 3rd and 4th liners but it's not. It's going to reduce the long-term deals that players get for retirement and it's going to save a ton of money for the 3rd and 4th liners. This will benefit everybody and not just the superstars.
I disagree, It will have more effect on the bottom part of the line up as the cap goes down so does the minimum salary....and the top part of the line up will still want to be paid their money. The length of the deals now allows the players amount to be differed there by allowing more salary amounts to be paid now.... as the players with the retirement type contracts do not collect the money in those last few years.

The fact that teams have these contracts and still send to the cap means that they are spending more money on salary for the rest of the team.

diceman934 is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:52 AM
  #694
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I disagree, It will have more effect on the bottom part of the line up as the cap goes down so does the minimum salary....and the top part of the line up will still want to be paid their money. The length of the deals now allows the players amount to be differed there by allowing more salary amounts to be paid now.... as the players with the retirement type contracts do not collect the money in those last few years.
Cap going down doesn't necessarily imply minimum salary going down as well.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:58 AM
  #695
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 4,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Cap going down doesn't necessarily imply minimum salary going down as well.
It most certainly does if the same calculations are used to come up with the minimum salary is used going forward.

diceman934 is online now  
Old
12-06-2012, 12:03 PM
  #696
Volcanologist
Habitual User
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 19,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Kyper is wrong here though and Maclean is right. He's trying to say that this new deal is going to kill 3rd and 4th liners but it's not. It's going to reduce the long-term deals that players get for retirement and it's going to save a ton of money for the 3rd and 4th liners. This will benefit everybody and not just the superstars.
That's exactly what people said would happen as a result of the salary cap 7 years ago. Needless to say, it didn't.

Volcanologist is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 12:04 PM
  #697
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
It most certainly does if the same calculations are used to come up with the minimum salary is used going forward.
This conflict is not about the little guys, but the superstars. Those calculations currently used can be altered very easily to keep the minimum salaries where they are.

4evaBlue is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 12:08 PM
  #698
Squiffy
Victims, rn't we all
 
Squiffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,449
vCash: 500
Minimum salary was a set dollar amount in the last CBA, not tied to revenue or anything like the max was. Started at $450,000 in '05 and rose in $25000 increments every two years to $525000 in 11/12.

Wouldn't expect minimum to drop.

Squiffy is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 12:17 PM
  #699
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Minimum salary was a set dollar amount in the last CBA, not tied to revenue or anything like the max was. Started at $450,000 in '05 and rose in $25000 increments every two years to $525000 in 11/12.

Wouldn't expect minimum to drop.
I don't think thats what they mean when they say it'll affect the "little guys". More like their agents won't be able to squeeze out that extra 150K out of their respective clubs because they couldn't sign superstars to cap circumventing contracts. I don't blame the owners one bit for trying to cut out all these loopholes for cap circumventing contracts, it's just bad for business.

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 12:19 PM
  #700
Squiffy
Victims, rn't we all
 
Squiffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I don't think thats what they mean when they say it'll affect the "little guys". More like their agents won't be able to squeeze out that extra 150K out of their respective clubs because they couldn't sign superstars to cap circumventing contracts. I don't blame the owners one bit for trying to cut out all these loopholes for cap circumventing contracts, it's just bad for business.
Agreed all around.. just clarifying the above claims that a lowered cap would affect the minimum salary if it continued to be calculated as it was in the previous CBA.. not the case, it was a set dollar amount, not a calculation tied to the cap.

Squiffy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.