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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:45 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
No, that was Burkle.

Any reasons given why Tanenbaum left? Was it out of frustration with the process or does he just have other business to attend to?
likely other business, maybe some other owners coming in? who knows

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12-06-2012, 02:48 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
most of the population doesn't have skills to make big money.
Think about why...

If we are talking hockey... well hockey is primarily dominated by white upper class men. There's a good reason for that.

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12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
most of the population doesn't have skills to make big money.
Most of the population isn't afforded the opportunities.

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12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
No, that was Burkle.

Any reasons given why Tanenbaum left? Was it out of frustration with the process or does he just have other business to attend to?
"NHL, players make serious lockout progress; Leafs’ Tanenbaum: ‘We’ll continue to talk up until we get a deal’"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...4644--nhl.html

And no one knows if he left out of frustration or because of other commitments, but considering what he said two days ago and his actions now, it seems to be leaning more towards frustration? (hope I'm wrong)

Also, Mark Chipman of WPG has also left. 4 owners remain.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:54 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Think about why...

If we are talking hockey... well hockey is primarily dominated by white upper class men. There's a good reason for that.
Yep... interest.

Doubt Jay-Z has interest in owning the Islanders.

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12-06-2012, 02:54 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I love Kipper crying "Oh the players have shorter careers so $500,000 in the bank at worst isn't good enough, they need more!!!".

I'm sorry people work 40-50 years of their life if they did well today. Every single last one of them would love to have half a million in the bank after a couple of years.

Cry me a river that guys with half a million in the bank might have to go to school like the rest of the world and get a real job.

That kind of money provides you with ten times more flexibility than 99% of the population. Most people can't afford or have the time to go to school because they have to work a crappy job for $10 an hour.

That argument is such a joke. And risk? You want to talk about risk Kipper? There are plenty of jobs in the real world that are just as detrimental to your health as hockey... and most of those people are waiting 6months to a year to get treated... not 24 hours.
Well said i heard Kypreos going off about this as well. Lost a lot of respect for him throughout this lockout his constant whining about the plight of the NHLPA has been an ongoing embarrassment. Kypreos gets owned by Mac on virtually every show. lol

I think the NHL season could be toast because of the foolish shenanigans of Fehr and the NHLPA, i'm not optimistic. What i'd like to see the NHL do now is make their final take it or leave it offer to the PA which has to be signed by approx this weekend to get in at least a legit 55-60 game sched or else the NHL announces cancellation of the entire season. If the PA fools want to continue to flush their pay cheques down the sewer they can go right ahead i don't give a damn they are nutz.

Then in September the NHL should just open the doors the PA will all come crawling back except maybe some Russians who might want to make a longer standoff in the KHL good luck to them.

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12-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Most of the population isn't afforded the opportunities.
Most of the Canadian population is afforded the opportunity to become a NHL player at a young age, its just very few have the skill and dedication required.

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12-06-2012, 02:56 PM
  #733
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Figured there would be a season when I got home from work. Guess not.

Contracts should be 5 years. End of discussion. This is whats best for the game.
Players would be absolutely crazy to accept it though. This is a deal breaker.

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12-06-2012, 03:00 PM
  #734
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Paid for a highly refined skill that has a short time period that entertains millions of people.

I have more respect for the 3 jobs you mentioned then I can explain, but millions they do not deserve. Anyone with 2 years of school, a clean record and a good head on their shoulders can have those jobs (I should know I was almost a cop before an eye injury). But NHL hockey players, they are 700 of the most talented players in the world, they trained their whole lives for one goal and put countless hours into training.

They might not put their lives on the line, but on a day to day basis they are beating their bodies to a pulp.
At the end of the day though it's still their choice to put their bodies at risk to play, so I don't buy into any self-pity attempts players try to justify for wanting more money and saying their at a health risk because simply put there are many jobs with health risks out there.

It's a case of the rich wanting more from the richer, and while I'm not trying to say I think the owners ('the richer') should get more money, the notion that players should not concede any revenues is pretty silly considering that players salaries are so high and there are teams within the league that are losing money on a yearly basis.

The players claim that it's not the Crosby or Ovi's of the league that will suffer, but rather the average player who doesn't get the multi-million dollar contract that will set them up for life .. And that it's those players who will have to work the next "40-50" years afterwards (which is a big exaggeration) .. But let's stop back a second and look at some stats, being mindful that we're looking ahead to the future here ..

- According to http://www.quanthockey.com the average NHL player career is 5.62 years however the median is 4 .. So let's say that a player is in the league 4 years
- According to this 2011 article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-10423863) the average NHL salary is $2.4 million
- Simple math indicates the average player would then make $9.6 million over his career

- Now if a player did not want to earn a single dollar for the remainder of his life (say a player retires at 25), that's 60 years roughly ... All they'd need to do is ensure they have enough money invested to generate yearly revenues around $100,000 which allows for a pretty comfy living. Historically that was only $1,000,000 invested because interest rates were around 10% but with downturns in the economy those rates have dropped drastically to around 2-3% .. Taking into in account fluctuations if a player invested $1.75 million of their $9.6 million they made over their career they would have enough money invested to set themselves up with income for the rest of their life without having to work a day (in theory)

The above is a very generic example, with a lot of holes, but it's still a good way to break down why people shouldn't side with the players .. They are being greedy because they're not smart enough with their money during their career, and that isn't the owners problem

Even if you look at the league minimum of $525,000 .. that's still $2.1 million earned over the average NHL 4 year career ... A player should be smart enough to save as much as they can to ensure that they're not bankrupt when their career is done.

To those who say that players don't know how long their careers will be and spend all their money on perceived future gains, that's a fair point .. If I signed a 3 year entry deal at the league minimum, at 18 no less, I'd be very inclined to overspend .. Still it's not the owners problems that players are irresponsible with their money

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:04 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
At the end of the day though it's still their choice to put their bodies at risk to play, so I don't buy into any self-pity attempts players try to justify for wanting more money and saying their at a health risk because simply put there are many jobs with health risks out there.

It's a case of the rich wanting more from the richer, and while I'm not trying to say I think the owners ('the richer') should get more money, the notion that players should not concede any revenues is pretty silly considering that players salaries are so high and there are teams within the league that are losing money on a yearly basis.

The players claim that it's not the Crosby or Ovi's of the league that will suffer, but rather the average player who doesn't get the multi-million dollar contract that will set them up for life .. And that it's those players who will have to work the next "40-50" years afterwards (which is a big exaggeration) .. But let's stop back a second and look at some stats, being mindful that we're looking ahead to the future here ..

- According to http://www.quanthockey.com the average NHL player career is 5.62 years however the median is 4 .. So let's say that a player is in the league 4 years
- According to this 2011 article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-10423863) the average NHL salary is $2.4 million
- Simple math indicates the average player would then make $9.6 million over his career

- Now if a player did not want to earn a single dollar for the remainder of his life (say a player retires at 25), that's 60 years roughly ... All they'd need to do is ensure they have enough money invested to generate yearly revenues around $100,000 which allows for a pretty comfy living. Historically that was only $1,000,000 invested because interest rates were around 10% but with downturns in the economy those rates have dropped drastically to around 2-3% .. Taking into in account fluctuations if a player invested $1.75 million of their $9.6 million they made over their career they would have enough money invested to set themselves up with income for the rest of their life without having to work a day (in theory)

The above is a very generic example, with a lot of holes, but it's still a good way to break down why people shouldn't side with the players .. They are being greedy because they're not smart enough with their money during their career, and that isn't the owners problem

Even if you look at the league minimum of $525,000 .. that's still $2.1 million earned over the average NHL 4 year career ... A player should be smart enough to save as much as they can to ensure that they're not bankrupt when their career is done.

To those who say that players don't know how long their careers will be and spend all their money on perceived future gains, that's a fair point .. If I signed a 3 year entry deal at the league minimum, at 18 no less, I'd be very inclined to overspend .. Still it's not the owners problems that players are irresponsible with their money
At work, dont have time to read all of it, sorry. But to key on your first point. I agree. It is their choice, like it is the police and fire fighter and military personnels choice. They just have a high level of skill needed to reach that level, where Police officers and fire fighters do not.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:09 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
"NHL, players make serious lockout progress; Leafs’ Tanenbaum: ‘We’ll continue to talk up until we get a deal’"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...4644--nhl.html

And no one knows if he left out of frustration or because of other commitments, but considering what he said two days ago and his actions now, it seems to be leaning more towards frustration? (hope I'm wrong)

Also, Mark Chipman of WPG has also left. 4 owners remain.
I didn't see that comment. Not too sure what to make of his departure either, but one thing is for certain: The loss of Chipman and Tanenbaum means that the hardliners (Edwards and Jacobs) will have more of a say.

That cannot be a good thing.

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12-06-2012, 03:15 PM
  #737
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Call the season and then impose non gaurenteed contracts upon their return.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:16 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
I didn't see that comment. Not too sure what to make of his departure either, but one thing is for certain: The loss of Chipman and Tanenbaum means that the hardliners (Edwards and Jacobs) will have more of a say.

That cannot be a good thing.
I've been reading that Edwards isn't so bad, he gets kind of a bad rep because of some labour dispute in the oil industry a while back but he's not so bad when it comes to the NHL. Jacobs is obviously Jacobs though, that's a given.

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12-06-2012, 03:17 PM
  #739
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Police officers - easily replaceable

Firefighters - easily replaceable

Military personell - easily replaceable

Professional hockey players capable of playing at the NHL level - get the hint?

When you can provide a skill that 99% of people don't have, you can start to demand money that 99% of people don't make, otherwise you're just another cog in the wheel.

Just a reality check for some of you guys.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:22 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Call the season and then impose non gaurenteed contracts upon their return.
Players will decertify and then the NHL has an obligation to negotiate with each player, or honour existing contracts.

Isn't a simple solution if they don't work it out.

Existing contracts are likely guaranteed.

New contracts would include a guaranteed or not clause and it would be up to the players whether they'd sign a non-guaranteed contract.

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12-06-2012, 03:24 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Police officers - easily replaceable

Firefighters - easily replaceable

Military personell - easily replaceable

Professional hockey players capable of playing at the NHL level - get the hint?

When you can provide a skill that 99% of people don't have, you can start to demand money that 99% of people don't make, otherwise you're just another cog in the wheel.

Just a reality check for some of you guys.
Billionaire owners to pay the bills - Easily replaceable?

Unless those guys earn profit no one will buy teams and thus teams and jobs fold.

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12-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Billionaire owners to pay the bills - Easily replaceable?

Unless those guys earn profit no one will buy teams and thus teams and jobs fold.
I'm sure there are billionaire's waiting to buy a team, just not in places like St. Louis, Anaheim or Phoenix.

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12-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Police officers - easily replaceable

Firefighters - easily replaceable

Military personell - easily replaceable

Professional hockey players capable of playing at the NHL level - get the hint?

When you can provide a skill that 99% of people don't have, you can start to demand money that 99% of people don't make, otherwise you're just another cog in the wheel.

Just a reality check for some of you guys.
The city's and municipality's don't have the checkbooks NHL owners have to hand out salaries so handily to employees .. And most people would agree those above occupations should get paid more if it were financially feasible.

I disagree that those people are easily replaceable .. You have to pass higher physical standards than you do to play hockey professionally, and you have to be pretty damn tough mentally too

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12-06-2012, 03:28 PM
  #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Police officers - easily replaceable

Firefighters - easily replaceable

Military personell - easily replaceable

Professional hockey players capable of playing at the NHL level - get the hint?

When you can provide a skill that 99% of people don't have, you can start to demand money that 99% of people don't make, otherwise you're just another cog in the wheel.

Just a reality check for some of you guys.
Reality check: besides the superstars there is a long line of capable players to take their place.

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12-06-2012, 03:28 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'm sure there are billionaire's waiting to buy a team, just not in places like St. Louis, Anaheim or Phoenix.
That's the whole point, the current system allows many teams to be unprofitable. If you can ensure everyone earns profit (and not by taking all the leafs profit and reimbursing it) then you will have no issues with ownership stability and the health of the game improves.

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12-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Most of the population isn't afforded the opportunities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafGardens View Post
Well said i heard Kypreos going off about this as well. Lost a lot of respect for him throughout this lockout his constant whining about the plight of the NHLPA has been an ongoing embarrassment. Kypreos gets owned by Mac on virtually every show. lol

I think the NHL season could be toast because of the foolish shenanigans of Fehr and the NHLPA, i'm not optimistic. What i'd like to see the NHL do now is make their final take it or leave it offer to the PA which has to be signed by approx this weekend to get in at least a legit 55-60 game sched or else the NHL announces cancellation of the entire season. If the PA fools want to continue to flush their pay cheques down the sewer they can go right ahead i don't give a damn they are nutz.

Then in September the NHL should just open the doors the PA will all come crawling back except maybe some Russians who might want to make a longer standoff in the KHL good luck to them.


I am actually literally surprised how many people here think those who play in the NHL are some rare breed and have skills 99% of the population don't have... I mean it IS HFBoards but I guess we still have some people missing out on the education system.

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12-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Drakkor View Post
Reality check: besides the superstars there is a long line of capable players to take their place.
No there really aren't, maybe if you include below average 3rd & 4th line players then your argument makes some sense.

And besides, without "superstars" there's no NHL, these guys deserve every penny they earn.

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12-06-2012, 03:32 PM
  #748
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If the league can run and make a profit then I honestly do not care how much a player makes but if my tax dollars go anywhere near thier wallets then they can go pound sand. Pro hockey is entertainment and not really important when you look at the big picture of 'life'. Yes thier job is risky but so are many more jobs that do not get the pay and attention that a pro athlete gets. If we were all paid based on how critical or important your job was, my guess is pro athletes would be near the bottom of the scale.

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12-06-2012, 03:32 PM
  #749
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Players will decertify and then the NHL has an obligation to negotiate with each player, or honour existing contracts.

I'm sorry but where are you getting this from? Neither side has even brought up the option of decertification, only the media has and we all know how much they're full of it.

You say the NHLPA decertifies and then the leauge has an oligation to honour the existing contracts- You do realize that if they do decertify that ALL contracts are null and void right?

Also, neither side wants to decertify, they may not agree on much but on that their in agreement about. If the NHLPA decertifies that means all players are free agents essentially and they no longer get their guranteed contracts, the players want their existing contracts honored and to have mega term deals when the new CBA is announced. If the NHLPA decertifies there is no guarantee that the 750 or so players will be even given a contract and there is no guarantee on how long it would be, this would be the last thing the players want. The NHL doesn't want this either because if the players decertify it would likely kill off 1/3 of the teams (new jersey, edmonton, phoneix) and that means a lot of money lost, that is the last thing the owners want, they want to turn a profit not bleed out.

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12-06-2012, 03:32 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
That's the whole point, the current system allows many teams to be unprofitable. If you can ensure everyone earns profit (and not by taking all the leafs profit and reimbursing it) then you will have no issues with ownership stability and the health of the game improves.
Putting a team in a position to fail results in that.

Phoenix isn't about salaries, it is about people who really don't care if it is there or not.

The only thing that can save those teams is eliminating the floor or the cap system itself.

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