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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:30 PM
  #851
PhiladelphiaKessel
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To the players reaction, I believe. Vinik, Burkle and the other one are not happy either.
LOLZ! nearly spit out my food when i saw ur avatar

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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #852
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LOLZ! nearly spit out my food when i saw ur avatar
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12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
  #853
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Michael Russo @Russostrib
Players hire Fehr to potentially lose 100% of their salaries, precious time in a short career and decertify their union? #goodhire

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12-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #854
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Alex Seixeiro ‏@alexfan590

... RT @adater: From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in and told us we could get more and to hold out"

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12-06-2012, 08:46 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Alex Seixeiro ‏@alexfan590

... RT @adater: From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in and told us we could get more and to hold out"
I think Fehr mis-read the situation. Completely squandered what good will and urgency there was.

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12-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #856
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I think Fehr mis-read the situation. Completely squandered what good will and urgency there was.
Clearly he doesn't think the owners have the will to lose a whole season. I wonder if he's right? If he's wrong then missing this deal may be a colossal mistake.

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12-06-2012, 08:50 PM
  #857
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Ron Hainsey: someone from ownership told players Wednesday night that bringing Fehr back into the room "could be a dealbreaker." Amazing.

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12-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #858
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I could Fehr being let go after all this is fixed. If that is true, Players must be completely pissed

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12-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Clearly he doesn't think the owners have the will to lose a whole season. I wonder if he's right? If he's wrong then missing this deal may be a colossal mistake.
Theoretically, I agree that the owners were probably eager to get a deal done, hence why Bettman suggested they move to direct negotiating, but when you have two good days of negotiations stonewalled for a better deal, I could see the owners hardening their stance against what looks like the PA holding them hostage when they show a little vulnerability. Don't see a lot of good coming out of this. Oh well, see you in 2014, NHL.

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12-06-2012, 08:54 PM
  #860
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I think Fehr mis-read the situation. Completely squandered what good will and urgency there was.
He shouldnt have been brought back in.

Guy goes and presents to the media like the negotiations are done and we are okay. Got us fans hopes up to have them broken in half with a 30 minute speech by the commissioner saying how they arent even close.

The both of them should just go in a barn and get there issues sorted out to leave the negotiations to Dally and the other Fehr.

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12-06-2012, 08:57 PM
  #861
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He shouldnt have been brought back in.

Guy goes and presents to the media like the negotiations are done and we are okay. Got us fans hopes up to have them broken in half with a 30 minute speech by the commissioner saying how they arent even close.

The both of them should just go in a barn and get there issues sorted out to leave the negotiations to Dally and the other Fehr.
What is Bettman supposed to do if every time he makes a concession Fehr backs out of his previous arrangements and try get more?

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12-06-2012, 08:59 PM
  #862
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In the end Bettman's ploy failed when he put his billionaire owners that negotiate big deals on regularity as common place occurrences, against the players in what he believed would be a outwit, outsmart & outplay maneuver.

How many lockouts and lost seasons must fans endure before it becomes obvious he doesn't know how to broker a successful deal.

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12-06-2012, 09:00 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
In the end Bettman's ploy failed when he put his billionaire owners that negotiate big deals on regularity as common place occurrences, against the players in what he believed would be a outwit, outsmart & outplay maneuver.

How many lockouts and lost seasons must fans endure before it becomes obvious he doesn't know how to broker a successful deal.
And yet Baseball went through how many work stoppages with Fehr at the helm of the MLBPA? How many have their been since he left? Seems pretty obvious who the one keeping this thing going is.

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12-06-2012, 09:02 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
In the end Bettman's ploy failed when he put his billionaire owners that negotiate big deals on regularity as common place occurrences, against the players in what he believed would be a outwit, outsmart & outplay maneuver.

How many lockouts and lost seasons must fans endure before it becomes obvious he doesn't know how to broker a successful deal.
What Bettman said at his PC is that the owners gave the players an all or nothing proposal.

He was clear when he said the only thing they expected today was a yes or no answer.

I guess he got back a no. Not sure why he was so emotional when he gave them 2 options yes or no. A counter-proposal is a no. I guess he didn't want anything but a yes.

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12-06-2012, 09:03 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Clearly he doesn't think the owners have the will to lose a whole season. I wonder if he's right? If he's wrong then missing this deal may be a colossal mistake.
Well its the Owners lockout that has shutdown the game so I suppose they can keep it going as long as they want..

They can take for granted that the Fans will come back, just because they did last time, but I believe that some markets will struggle to recover from this mess they created and in the end it was their own greed that will be to blame.

Once we have a CBA again the players contract will be guaranteed again and paid in full.. If the building however remains 1/2 empty due to fan empathy then the Owner in the end destroyed his own market and has no one to blame but himself. IMO

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12-06-2012, 09:07 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well its the Owners lockout that has shutdown the game so I suppose they can keep it going as long as they want..

They can take for granted that the Fans will come back, just because they did last time, but I believe that some markets will struggle to recover from this mess they created and in the end it was their own greed that will be to blame.

Once we have a CBA again the players contract will be guaranteed again and paid in full.. If the building however remains 1/2 empty due to fan empathy then the Owner in the end destroyed his own market and has no one to blame but himself. IMO
Maybe these weak markets need to struggle when the game comes back. Maybe this will force the league and the individual owners to think seriously about pulling out of unprofitable markets into potentially stronger ones or else folding up shop altogether.

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12-06-2012, 09:11 PM
  #867
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And yet Baseball went through how many work stoppages with Fehr at the helm of the MLBPA? How many have their been since he left? Seems pretty obvious who the one keeping this thing going is.
Does baseball have a hard cap?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/83...-espn-magazine

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12-06-2012, 09:14 PM
  #868
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What Bettman said at his PC is that the owners gave the players an all or nothing proposal.

He was clear when he said the only thing they expected today was a yes or no answer.

I guess he got back a no. Not sure why he was so emotional when he gave them 2 options yes or no. A counter-proposal is a no. I guess he didn't want anything but a yes.
The NHL has been playing with the PA chips the whole time in this take back CBA, and it looks like it was the Owners that folded, being outmatched by the players who held strong on things they have fought for and won in previous CBA battles.

Take it or leave it tactics when you are giving back what the PA already had (ie. make whole guaranteed contracts), in order to get their way at the expense of the PA was clearly not a Yes or No matter.

But like you've stated previously the common denominator in 3 lockouts is only 1 single individual regardless who sits opposite him at the negotiating table. Perhaps the Owners need a better deal closer.

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12-06-2012, 09:14 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
What is Bettman supposed to do if every time he makes a concession Fehr backs out of his previous arrangements and try get more?
He shouldnt go on a thirty minute rant to say what he said. He should have known they would have done that. That is to a tee what Bettman would do. Bettmans getting mad because the PA leader is playing hardball the exact way he would.

Bettman would have been better off for everyones own interest to speak to us about the positives he got from the offer instead of telling us about how they should have appreciated them giving back as much as they did. Im sure some players are just as mad they only gave back that much and are making it look like the heros.

Owners are complaining about how players are not trying to get a deal done, well theyre being hypocrites by going out, and saying all that.

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12-06-2012, 09:16 PM
  #870
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The players have made a fatal error here. They hired a guy not willing to give anything back in a league that cannot afford the arrangements that exist at the time. They have got a tough negotiator and under most situations that can be a good thing. The owners are not caving and the players probably will not either. Won't have hockey until December 2013.

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12-06-2012, 09:18 PM
  #871
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Adaters timeline. Avs fans say hes legit (hes their beat writer)

https://twitter.com/adater

If hes to be believed union is about to experience some rough waters

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adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
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adater ‏@adater
@loozerclown 100% golden source
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adater ‏@adater
That deep-inside-players quote came from depth player. They want to play, but top players still in Fehr camp. Could explode soon
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adater ‏@adater
Bottom line here: Players say they are unified, but not what I'm hearing from this depth player. They'll deny that publicly, but...
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adater ‏@adater
....privately, they are feeling powerless as the Ryan Millers and Brad Richards of the world pretend this is a sacrifice for them
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adater ‏@adater
This depth player is wicked smart though. May put his name to comments soon. Sorry for anonymous tilt to this. not my style
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We're seeing now the fruition of a two-tier economic system among players. Top guys in Europe, taking jobs, making $. Bottom guys suffering

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12-06-2012, 09:19 PM
  #872
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Does hockey have 50 mil in media revenues for every franchise?

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12-06-2012, 09:22 PM
  #873
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Yup bl sabre I see a coup d'etat coming at some time. Decertification could be very interesting.

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12-06-2012, 09:23 PM
  #874
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The players have made a fatal error here. They hired a guy not willing to give anything back in a league that cannot afford the arrangements that exist at the time. They have got a tough negotiator and under most situations that can be a good thing. The owners are not caving and the players probably will not either. Won't have hockey until December 2013.
If the Owners want 5 year max contracts then all they have to do is set internal policy and instruct their employees to only hand out offers to players accordingly because the buck stops at them for final approval.. Players only sign contracts they're first offered so this is totally in Team control what contracts are handed out and approved for payment.

No different really than a team playing on a budget and not forced to spend to the hard cap just because the CBA permits them to spend more than they can afford to.

But Since the Owners and their hired GMs lack self control they need to hold the hockey world hostage to protect themselves from themselves, by requiring it to be written in stone in the CBA preventing them from self abuse.

Why the Owners want to lose a season over things they can control internally is a head scratcher, only they can answer.

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12-06-2012, 09:24 PM
  #875
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Adaters timeline. Avs fans say hes legit (hes their beat writer)

https://twitter.com/adater

If hes to be believed union is about to experience some rough waters
Wouldn't the money given up be coming from the top players??

Don't really think a third liner cares if he has an 8 year or 5 year contract or if the cba is 6 or 8 years when they are still making the league minimum.

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