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Question Re: Sakic Offersheet

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02-07-2005, 07:04 PM
  #1
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Question Re: Sakic Offersheet

Does any one know the slots of the 5 1sts that would have been compensation for Sakic?

Thanks

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02-07-2005, 07:22 PM
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Olorin
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I suppose they would have depended on how well the Rangers fared with Sakic. There's really no way to estimate, I think.

Unless I'm missing something about how that compensation is determined.

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02-07-2005, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan13
I suppose they would have depended on how well the Rangers fared with Sakic. There's really no way to estimate, I think.

Unless I'm missing something about how that compensation is determined.
I'm pretty sure this is the case. Hypothetically, say they ended up with the same record, this is who would have been traded:

1998 #7 (Manny Malhotra)
1999 #11 (Oleg Saprykin), assuming they didn't move for #4 or #9 that year
2000 #5 (Raffi Torres), again, assuming no trades
2001 #10 (Dan Blackburn)
2002 #10 (Eric Nystrom), once again, no trades, etc.

20-20 hindsight could have given the Avs:
1998 Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez
1999 Martin Havlat
2000 Alexander Frolov, Justin Williams
2001 Dan Hamhuis
2002 Alexander Semin

Is Sakic worth that first package? Yes.
Is he worth the second? Not in my mind.

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02-07-2005, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie

20-20 hindsight could have given the Avs:
1998 Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez
1999 Martin Havlat
2000 Alexander Frolov, Justin Williams
2001 Dan Hamhuis
2002 Alexander Semin
holy crap, wow
lol

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02-07-2005, 08:00 PM
  #5
Olorin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
I'm pretty sure this is the case. Hypothetically, say they ended up with the same record, this is who would have been traded:

1998 #7 (Manny Malhotra)
1999 #11 (Oleg Saprykin), assuming they didn't move for #4 or #9 that year
2000 #5 (Raffi Torres), again, assuming no trades
2001 #10 (Dan Blackburn)
2002 #10 (Eric Nystrom), once again, no trades, etc.

20-20 hindsight could have given the Avs:
1998 Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez
1999 Martin Havlat
2000 Alexander Frolov, Justin Williams
2001 Dan Hamhuis
2002 Alexander Semin

Is Sakic worth that first package? Yes.
Is he worth the second? Not in my mind.
I think the Rangers' 2000 1st turned out to be Nikita Alexeev.

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02-07-2005, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan13
I think the Rangers' 2000 1st turned out to be Nikita Alexeev.

Maybe, but their 73 points were tied for 5th in the NHL for lowest points with Boston.

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02-07-2005, 08:03 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20
holy crap, wow
lol

Well, one of the three and one of the two, not all those players.

Although, I suppose, in 1998, the Avalanche did have four first round picks.

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02-07-2005, 08:13 PM
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Signing RFA is always better for the signing team. It seems like a lot of 1st rd picks but there have been a ton of articles about these kind of signings and how it dindt work out for the team with the picks.

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02-07-2005, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Maybe, but their 73 points were tied for 5th in the NHL for lowest points with Boston.
You have to account for Columbus and Minnesota participating in the draft.

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02-07-2005, 08:18 PM
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NYR469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan13
I think the Rangers' 2000 1st turned out to be Nikita Alexeev.
yep you are right...that was the pick we traded to TB to get brendl.

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02-07-2005, 08:24 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
20-20 hindsight could have given the Avs:
1998 Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez
1999 Martin Havlat
2000 Alexander Frolov, Justin Williams
2001 Dan Hamhuis
2002 Alexander Semin
and that is why only a handful of players have received offer sheets. the chances of landing those potential players might not be that high and definitely aren't guaranteed (you could end up with complete crap) but that potential return is almost no one is worth 5 1st round picks...really when you look at a return like this i'd say that no one is worth that much.

and a few of those guys were taken in the bottom half of the first round, so even if you say 'with sakic we'd be a better team which makes the pick worse' you could still end up with those guys...

of course we didn't get sakic and kept those picks and didn't end up with any of those guys...which also shows that despite the potential for great value if you don't know what you are doing at the draft table you will be left with nothing.

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02-07-2005, 09:58 PM
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I still would have loved to get Sakic here! He would have been worth every pick, and is still an awesome player!

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02-07-2005, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
I'm pretty sure this is the case. Hypothetically, say they ended up with the same record, this is who would have been traded:

1998 #7 (Manny Malhotra)
1999 #11 (Oleg Saprykin), assuming they didn't move for #4 or #9 that year
2000 #5 (Raffi Torres), again, assuming no trades
2001 #10 (Dan Blackburn)
2002 #10 (Eric Nystrom), once again, no trades, etc.

20-20 hindsight could have given the Avs:
1998 Alex Tanguay, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez
1999 Martin Havlat
2000 Alexander Frolov, Justin Williams
2001 Dan Hamhuis
2002 Alexander Semin

Is Sakic worth that first package? Yes.
Is he worth the second? Not in my mind.
Thanks for doing my work for me.

Yeah Door number one isn't worth it, but door number #2 (who knows how much of a set back it would have been.) I suspect the truth lays in the middle.

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02-08-2005, 01:07 AM
  #14
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I thought the 5 picks could be spread out over 7 years

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02-08-2005, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graveytrain
I thought the 5 picks could be spread out over 7 years
The one time it came into play was when the St. Louis Blues signed Scott Stevens from the Capitals in the summer of 1990. The Blues then forked over their first round picks for 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995.

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02-08-2005, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur
The one time it came into play was when the St. Louis Blues signed Scott Stevens from the Capitals in the summer of 1990. The Blues then forked over their first round picks for 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995.
Looks like you were right. Here's a link with some history on RFA signings: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=9273

And from what I remember, the 5 picks could be spread out over 6 years.


Last edited by Chief: 02-08-2005 at 10:41 AM.
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02-08-2005, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur
The one time it came into play was when the St. Louis Blues signed Scott Stevens from the Capitals in the summer of 1990. The Blues then forked over their first round picks for 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995.
I don't think we're talking about the same things here. I don't remember exactly what happed with Stevens and the Blues, so, I could be wrong but the Blues compensation came from an arbitrator, didn't it? The compensation for signing Sakic was part of the last CBA which came into being in 1995 (right?), which means it came after the Stevens signing.

And from what I remember, the 5 picks could be spread out over 6 years.
When STL signed Shanahan from NJ a arbitrator awarded NJ Scott Stevens as compensation.

Anyways if Sakic was signed by the Rangers they would have to fork over their 5 next 1st round picks right away. They could not be forked over 6 or 7 years. That would mean that it was up to the NYR to decide wheater Avs would recive any compensation at all for 1 or 2 years after they signed their best player.

However if the Rangers didn´t have a 1st round pick in one of the nextcomming five years the compensation would be spread over 6 years. I remeber Brooks once having a article on how signing Sakic would make it impossible for NYR to sign Lindros before a certain date because we wouldn´t have enough 1st rounders to compensate the Flyers..

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02-08-2005, 12:02 PM
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How do we know if Sakic would've worked out for us or would've been like the rest of the big names we've had. Then again, our #1s in those years weren't much to talk about. However, imagine is Sakic sucked here everyone would be b/itching over those picks.

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02-08-2005, 08:03 PM
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the picks can be spread of 6 years...

and the shanahan signing was before the current CBA so the draft pick compensation didn't apply. back then an arbitrator ruled what was fair compensation, there wasn't a set compensation based on salary like under the last cba...

same way we lost troy mallette as compensation for signing adam graves.

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02-08-2005, 08:11 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
How do we know if Sakic would've worked out for us or would've been like the rest of the big names we've had. Then again, our #1s in those years weren't much to talk about. However, imagine is Sakic sucked here everyone would be b/itching over those picks.
Sakic would've been alot better than any of the other 'stars' that've been here since.

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02-08-2005, 09:46 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Sakic would've been alot better than any of the other 'stars' that've been here since.
we don't know how good he would have been, but i think its pretty safe to say that he wouldn't have been the sakic we saw in colorado...

as bad as the individual players have been the last 7, the team as a whole has been worse then the individuals and the lack of accountability, structure, system, work ethic, etc has made it almost impossible for anyone to be successful...

this is the biggest reason why a rebuild was needed, the problems go far beyond the individual players and that is why the roster was turned over year after year with the same results...

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