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Dmitri Jaskin - Signed to 3 year deal by Blues

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04-05-2013, 05:08 PM
  #476
Alklha
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Not to get too far off track, to get an actual upgrade, 2 of Perron, Berglund, Oshie, and Stewart will have to go. It doesn't have to be in the same deal, but 2 have to leave for salary reasons. One is moved for the center and the other is moved for futures to continue to resupply the prospect pool and hopefully get a center prospect.
This sums it up. Using the Stastny example, we wouldn't give up both Perron and Berglund for him, but Berglund and a winger would need to go so we would be salary cap compliant next season.

Why does Perron keep getting brought up? It is a choice between Steen, Oshie, Perron and Stewart. Steen and Oshie are important players in our 2 way game and Stewart brings a more physical edge than anyone else we have. To see this as some sort of victimisation is naive. It is understandable if someone thinks one of the other 3 should be moved ahead of him, but their are valid reasons why Perron is seen as the most likely to go.

On our centres...

Sobotka should not be our #3C next season. He is there out of necessity just now, and is doing a solid enough job, but should ideally be viewed as our #4C next season.

Berglund might well be back to start next season, but I don't think he'll be here in a year from now. We can give him a prove it contract, but it isn't going to change the player that he is. He won't be the playmaker that we need, and he isn't capable of making his linemates better players. When they are guys like Perron, Schwartz, Tarsenko and Stewart, then the team is suffering because of that fit.

If we want Lehterä this summer then he will sign, he made that pretty clear with his comments earlier in the year. Plenty of question marks about his ability to transition to the North American game, but he is at least the type of centre that we are sorely missing. What Sobotka has done this season makes it easier for us to bring him into the team as well, as we know there is a back up plan if he does bomb.

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04-05-2013, 05:13 PM
  #477
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Schwartz and Rattie also make Perron the more expendable one since they are more comparable to Perron and not Steen, Oshie, or Stewart. We have replacements for Perron, not the others. Jaskin could replace Stewart, but we need to add size, not just substitute it. We don't have any top 6 2-way talents coming up in the system either.

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04-05-2013, 05:20 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Schwartz and Rattie also make Perron the more expendable one since they are more comparable to Perron and not Steen, Oshie, or Stewart. We have replacements for Perron, not the others. Jaskin could replace Stewart, but we need to add size, not just substitute it. We don't have any top 6 2-way talents coming up in the system either.
Schwartz is a lot more like Oshie than Perron. Rattie is a RW but he is more like Perron.

I don't see the need for Oshie if you want to look at who is replaceable. Smart, 2 way players with some offensive ability = Sobotka, Steen, Backes, Schwartz

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04-05-2013, 05:29 PM
  #479
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Schwartz is a lot more like Oshie than Perron. Rattie is a RW but he is more like Perron.

I don't see the need for Oshie if you want to look at who is replaceable. Smart, 2 way players with some offensive ability = Sobotka, Steen, Backes, Schwartz
Style wise, and I question what you see if you think Schwartz is more like Oshie than Perron.

Schwartz will be a high-end offensive winger that plays a good 2-way game because of how hard he works, but he isn't on the level of Backes, Oshie, or Steen in his 2-way play.

Like Perron, they are both smaller, good along the boards, have a good shot, and good passing ability.

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04-05-2013, 05:36 PM
  #480
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Schwartz is playing in his current role so he can round out his game and learn. He is an offensive player though, despite what we have seen so far. What he done against the Oilers earlier this season is hopefully what we can expect next season onwards.

The adjustments he has to make to find success at this level, against much bigger players, are subtle and won't happen overnight. He just doesn't have elite speed that makes the transition a lot easier for many other smaller players.

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04-05-2013, 06:13 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Schwartz is playing in his current role so he can round out his game and learn. He is an offensive player though, despite what we have seen so far. What he done against the Oilers earlier this season is hopefully what we can expect next season onwards.

The adjustments he has to make to find success at this level, against much bigger players, are subtle and won't happen overnight. He just doesn't have elite speed that makes the transition a lot easier for many other smaller players.
I think some people forget that Oshie like Schwartz put up a ton of points in college hockey. Both probably have their hockey sense and work ethic as their primary attributes. A knock on both when drafted was their size.

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04-05-2013, 06:18 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by GrandPapillon View Post
I think some people forget that Oshie like Schwartz put up a ton of points in college hockey. Both probably have their hockey sense and work ethic as their primary attributes. A knock on both when drafted was their size.
I think some people forget who Oshie was on a line with in college. I could put have put a ton of points on a line with Toews and Duncan as well. There is a reason why a lot of people where saying that line was one of the best in NCAA ever. Oshie was the third best offensive player on that line.

Schwartz was playing with guys no where near as skilled as Toews and Duncan. If Schwartz was with those two guys he would have put up twice as many points as Oshie.

If your standards for what kind of a player some one will be is based on NCAA points, whatever happened to Sejna?

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04-05-2013, 06:30 PM
  #483
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I think some people forget that Oshie like Schwartz put up a ton of points in college hockey. Both probably have their hockey sense and work ethic as their primary attributes. A knock on both when drafted was their size.
Schwartz's natural talent dwarf's Oshie's. Oshie was always suppose to be a 2-way, Schwartz was compared to Parise and Cammalleri at the draft.

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04-05-2013, 10:14 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Schwartz's natural talent dwarf's Oshie's. Oshie was always suppose to be a 2-way, Schwartz was compared to Parise and Cammalleri at the draft.


Oshie has great hands and is very underrated skill wise. He is a much better player than just a high energy guy.

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04-05-2013, 10:17 PM
  #485
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Oshie has great hands and is very underrated skill wise. He is a much better player than just a high energy guy.
Didn't say he didn't, his talent just doesn't match Perron's or Schwartz's.

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04-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Oshie has great hands and is very underrated skill wise. He is a much better player than just a high energy guy.
But, so is Oshie. He's not just a high-energy player. He's got a lot of skill. He's still developing his game. He'll probably be at least a 55-60 point scorer on a regular basis (depending upon his team's lines' composition).

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04-06-2013, 12:43 AM
  #487
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I think some people forget who Oshie was on a line with in college. I could put have put a ton of points on a line with Toews and Duncan as well. There is a reason why a lot of people where saying that line was one of the best in NCAA ever. Oshie was the third best offensive player on that line.

Schwartz was playing with guys no where near as skilled as Toews and Duncan. If Schwartz was with those two guys he would have put up twice as many points as Oshie.

If your standards for what kind of a player some one will be is based on NCAA points, whatever happened to Sejna?
LOL really? I humbly submit you have no idea what you're talking about. In 06-07, Oshie's sophomore year when they last played together, Toews put up 1.35PPG for 46 pts in 34 games, Duncan put up 1.33PPG with 57 in 43gp, Oshie put up 52 pts in 43 games for 1.21PPG.

Schwartz put up 1.57PPG his freshman year, then 1.37PPG his sophomore year.

Oshie put up 1.02PPG his freshman year, Toews put up 0.93PPG that same year, and Duncan was a 0.78PPG that season. So freshman year it was Oshie on top.

In his junior year after Toews had moved on, Oshie put up 1.07PPG while Duncan clocked in at 0.93PPG. Again, Oshie better than the guy two years older, similarly situated.

Your claim is that with Toews and Duncan, Schwartz would have put up twice as many points ... 2.42PPG. Do I really need to go further in identifying the absurdity in your claim?

Also, it's pretty freaking obvious not only from their college numbers given that Duncan was 2 years older than Oshie but obviously their NHL careers that Oshie is clearly not less offensively skilled than Ryan Duncan.

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04-06-2013, 07:53 AM
  #488
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I find it kinda funny how were are arguing over jaden and oshies skill levels on dmitrij jaskin's thread...

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04-06-2013, 07:54 AM
  #489
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Let us move the discussion back to Jaskin.

By the way his first game should be tonight.

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04-06-2013, 10:14 AM
  #490
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Let us move the discussion back to Jaskin.

By the way his first game should be tonight.
Maybe not... per Dave Eminian in the Peoria Journal Star, apparently Jaskin has some visa issues.

"Another exciting signee is winger Dmitrij Jaskin, a second-round pick by St. Louis in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft who has been assigned to Peoria.

"But Jaskin is not here — he has immigration issues that must be resolved first, and it’s unknown if or when he’ll be able to join the Rivermen."

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04-06-2013, 10:52 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Didn't say he didn't, his talent just doesn't match Perron's or Schwartz's.


I think Oshie will always be a better all around player than Schwartz and Perron due to his 2 way game. I like what I am seeing in Schwartz and he has the potential to change my mind on this, and I hope he does. I'd love for him to be a Parise type of player. I wish Schwartz was faster like Parise though.

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04-06-2013, 11:09 AM
  #492
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LOL really? I humbly submit you have no idea what you're talking about. In 06-07, Oshie's sophomore year when they last played together, Toews put up 1.35PPG for 46 pts in 34 games, Duncan put up 1.33PPG with 57 in 43gp, Oshie put up 52 pts in 43 games for 1.21PPG.

Schwartz put up 1.57PPG his freshman year, then 1.37PPG his sophomore year.

Oshie put up 1.02PPG his freshman year, Toews put up 0.93PPG that same year, and Duncan was a 0.78PPG that season. So freshman year it was Oshie on top.

In his junior year after Toews had moved on, Oshie put up 1.07PPG while Duncan clocked in at 0.93PPG. Again, Oshie better than the guy two years older, similarly situated.

Your claim is that with Toews and Duncan, Schwartz would have put up twice as many points ... 2.42PPG. Do I really need to go further in identifying the absurdity in your claim?

Also, it's pretty freaking obvious not only from their college numbers given that Duncan was 2 years older than Oshie but obviously their NHL careers that Oshie is clearly not less offensively skilled than Ryan Duncan.
Twice as many was an exaggeration the point was Oshie had much better line mates than Schwartz and that Schwartz is much more offensively skilled than Oshie. I did not think anybody would take that literally so I did not break down the numbers and pick some random point total I though Schwartz could get playing with Duncan and Toews.

There is a lot more to offensive skill than points. Tarasenko is the Blues most skilled offensive player but he does not lead the team in PPG.

Considering the debate is about their NCAA careers pointing out their NHL career has no bearing on anything, but since you brought it up...There is a lot more to being a good NHL player than having offensive abilities, if that was all that was needed the league would be vastly different and every game would see 10+ goals scored. The reason Duncan never made it to the NHL was not because of his offense.

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04-06-2013, 11:09 AM
  #493
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I think Oshie will always be a better all around player than Schwartz and Perron due to his 2 way game. I like what I am seeing in Schwartz and he has the potential to change my mind on this, and I hope he does. I'd love for him to be a Parise type of player. I wish Schwartz was faster like Parise though.
Man I hope you're wrong. I think Schwartz's prime is going to be better than Oshie's. Perron is still a bit of an enigma to me....he could be like Datsyuk skill-wise but I'm not sure that he's really on that trajectory in terms of the development of his game.

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04-06-2013, 11:23 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Man I hope you're wrong. I think Schwartz's prime is going to be better than Oshie's. Perron is still a bit of an enigma to me....he could be like Datsyuk skill-wise but I'm not sure that he's really on that trajectory in terms of the development of his game.

Offensively, Schwartz will definitely be superior to Oshie, it's just Oshie's all around I game I was referring to. I love Oshie's game.

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04-06-2013, 11:26 AM
  #495
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Twice as many was an exaggeration the point was Oshie had much better line mates than Schwartz and that Schwartz is much more offensively skilled than Oshie. I did not think anybody would take that literally so I did not break down the numbers and pick some random point total I though Schwartz could get playing with Duncan and Toews.

There is a lot more to offensive skill than points. Tarasenko is the Blues most skilled offensive player but he does not lead the team in PPG.

Considering the debate is about their NCAA careers pointing out their NHL career has no bearing on anything, but since you brought it up...There is a lot more to being a good NHL player than having offensive abilities, if that was all that was needed the league would be vastly different and every game would see 10+ goals scored. The reason Duncan never made it to the NHL was not because of his offense.
Obviously, college point totals aren't automatically translatable to the NHL. I just saw the statement that Schwartz would have scored twice as much as Oshie and thought, really? 100 points in a college season? That's Kariya-at-Maine territory, that would have been auto-Hobey at the freshman level. Schwartz is good but he's not that good.

We'll have to wait and see what happens. I think Schwartz has much more natural offensive instincts than Oshie. Oshie's kind of a coach's dream player – can do everything well and works hard doing it. Schwartz is much more one-dimensional right now and may always be. He's an offensive player and has, like Oshie, a high hockey IQ. When the game slows down more for Schwartz is when we'll see him start to put up the numbers.

Also, topically, Jaskin.

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04-07-2013, 01:57 PM
  #496
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Accordine To JR, Its just an immigration that is holding Jaskin back now, and they should expect him in STL in a day or two.

Originally it was thought Jaskin would go to Peoria, then #stlblues. Now..."we might bring him right in" to St. Louis, Armstrong said.


Armstrong on Dmitrij Jaskin arrival: "It's an immigration issue now. We're hoping in a day or two." #stlblues

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04-07-2013, 02:15 PM
  #497
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Considering Oshie isn't fully skating yet and McDonald was missing today, makes sense that he'll now bypass Peoria.

Maybe a debut against Nashville on Tuesday.

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04-07-2013, 02:34 PM
  #498
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Wow, that's gonna be fun to watch. They'll probably want to see him in a few practices first, but you never know. Sometimes they try to capture an initial burst of what I'd call Excitement Production a player brings with him. Like Schwartz scoring two goals in his first two games on his first two NHL shots.

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04-07-2013, 02:37 PM
  #499
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Like Schwartz, his debut will probably be delayed until he gets comfortable in practice.

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04-07-2013, 02:41 PM
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Wow, that's gonna be fun to watch. They'll probably want to see him in a few practices first, but you never know. Sometimes they try to capture an initial burst of what I'd call Excitement Production a player brings with him. Like Schwartz scoring two goals in his first two games on his first two NHL shots.
Or Frank on his first two shots. Otherwise known as the Kreider-effect.

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